No good deed goes unpunished

[Firebird]

So I'm not a person who often finds myself stuck in this one, because I don't really do too many good deeds.

But my thread about the ticket my friend got while driving my car made me kinda depressed. On the one hand, people brought up good points I had not considered (like the fact that my friend regularly borrowing my car might cause her to be considered a regular driver and if she wasn't ensured as such, she might not be covered in an accident). So that was good.

On the other hand, it just sucks that helping people so often has a risk premium attached. Look at simser's post about her friend with the DUIs - she wants to help an old buddy. It's a worthy instinct, and yet every last one of us told her (in one way or another) that it was best to stay away.

In my case, the friend that was borrowing my car is doing everything she can to help herself out of a rather nasty situation. I'm proud of her and I want to help. Loaning her my car during the day when I didn't need it anyway was an easy thing I could do for her that helped her a LOT. It seemed like such a simple thing at the time. Now I no longer feel comfortable taking that kind of risk (not because of what she did, but because of the insurance risk that everyone pointed out).

When do you help your friends? When do you stay away? What's an "acceptable" level of risk to you when it comes to helping out your friends? And why is this stuff so damn complicated?!?

[zibazinski]

It became complicated when people began suing each other for anything as opposed to just saying accidents can happen. I got rear ended by a cop, of all things! Instantly I was expected to go to the hospital and for the city to be sued. Well, I was fine, my kids were fine, except for giggling constantly about a cop hitting US! The city offered a check for 30k and when I said no, it instantly became 50 k. When I said that I had said no because it wasn't necessary, you'd have thought their faces were going to explode. I even had the cop that hit me show up on my doorstep and talk to me. Jesus, it was an accident and no one was hurt. Enough already.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Your situation is easy enough to deal with, FB. Call your insurance agent and put your friend on your policy. That way, you'll be covered if there is an accident and there will be no question as to who will pay.

But otherwise, I know what you mean. I have an elderly neighbor and my helping her started out with me scraping the ice off her car while I was waiting for my car to heat up. We left for work about the same time each morning. It transpired into a lot more, where I started doing her grocery shopping, hauling garbage, and a lot more.

In the meantime, I found out that she was badmouthing me, just like she badmouthed all of her other friends to me. At this point, I thought we were friends, we had a standing Friday evening dinner date. I backed off helping her and started making excuses why I couldn't go to dinner on Friday.

She's my neighbor, if she's still there when I get back, I'll continue to keep an eye out for her. But I am wary and don't say anything that could be misconstrued.

[Rocky Mtn Saver]

May 22, 2012 14:41:54 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

It became complicated when people began suing each other for anything as opposed to just saying accidents can happen. I got rear ended by a cop, of all things! Instantly I was expected to go to the hospital and for the city to be sued. Well, I was fine, my kids were fine, except for giggling constantly about a cop hitting US! The city offered a check for 30k and when I said no, it instantly became 50 k. When I said that I had said no because it wasn't necessary, you'd have thought their faces were going to explode. I even had the cop that hit me show up on my doorstep and talk to me. Jesus, it was an accident and no one was hurt. Enough already.

Hey, I got hit by a cop car once too! I thought I was the only one it'd happened to. No one ever believed me it was a fender-bender in a drive-through line and there was no real damage to my car. Of course, it never occurred to me to consider suing the city. If I had, maybe I'd be posting this from some tropical island instead of my desk.

[zibazinski]

It was no big deal, really. I was at the red light next to the station and there are bushes on one side. He must have looked left which would be normal and not looked right or didn't pull out far enough to see me. Looked left again and pulled out into me.

[Firebird]

Your situation is easy enough to deal with, FB. Call your insurance agent and put your friend on your policy. That way, you'll be covered if there is an accident and there will be no question as to who will pay.

I plan to tell her that if she wants to keep borrowing my car, we need to put her on my policy and she has to pay the difference in premiums. She probably can't afford to do that right now, so we'll just revert to giving her a ride whenever we can.

zib, I admit that I might have taken the money in your case Especially right now. Unless he was writing the check out of his own pocket, then no. But yeah, it's kind of sad the way people just expect you to sue over everything.

[zibazinski]

This was several years ago. Still, there's a difference between right and wrong. I was fine, the mini van had a huge rubber bumper and it was slightly damaged. It would have been wrong and wrong in front of my kids who I tried to raise to be good citizens.

[Deleted]

Zib,

I would have done the same thing as you. What the L has happened when every little thing becomes a sueable event?

[Angel!]

May 22, 2012 14:37:30 GMT -5 Firebird said:

When do you help your friends? When do you stay away? What's an "acceptable" level of risk to you when it comes to helping out your friends? And why is this stuff so damn complicated?!?

I have noticed that the more I have to lose, the less I am willing to take a risk to help others. I won't let others drive my car because if insurance won't cover it, I could be sued & lose everything. Not likely, but not a risk worth taking. Whereas, when I was 20, I didn't have a good job, kids, & a house - so I never even considered the risk. But, then I didn't have anything to lose beyond the car either.

Plus, being burned a few times in helping people out makes you far less inclined to help others. Every time I have let someone stay with me it has been a disaster (took me 4 times to learn that lesson). H let a friend borrow my car who then proceeded to park it somewhere stupid & then I had to pay to get it out of impound because they were too broke. And then just dealing with H and another acquaintance who does meth has taught me that you can't help an addict - they will bleed you dry & then get angry when you can't afford to give more.

Except for a very, very short list of people, I don't help others any more. Funny that no one on that short list has ever needed help - apparently the people I trust are also those that manage to take care of themselves & short of an emergency don't need me anyway.

[zibazinski]

[Deleted]

"the more I have to lose, the less I am willing to take a risk to help others. "

However we will donate to legitimate charities.

"Except for a very, very short list of people, I don't help others any more. Funny that no one on that short list has ever needed help - apparently the people I trust are also those that manage to take care of themselves "

Exactly.

BTW I do HATE the expression "No good deed goes unpunished" because I hear it uttered as a way of justifying bad behavior.

In your case FB I think it's No Good Deed isn't criticized. That would be your YM family lovin' ya!

[Works4me]

For me the problem comes when I have the inability to easily mitigate the damages incurred by generously helping someone.

[Miss Tequila]

I take my finances very seriously and I will not do anything to potentially screw that up. A few years ago my mom was going through her second bankruptcy (don't get me started!). I can't remember why but my aunt wanted her to buy a car and put it in my name. I "think" it was because they already had a car (well, in addition to the one that was repossessed)...I admit to not knowing bankrupcty laws. Anyway, beyond the fact that my mom filing bankruptcy for a second time was a major issue with me...I have way too much to lose if she were every in an accident and got sued. If the car was in my name, I would be involved in the lawsuit.

I also don't let anyone else drive my car for that same reason.

[Firebird]

In your case FB I think it's No Good Deed isn't criticized. That would be your YM family lovin' ya!



I never thought about the expression that way. I mostly relate it to the Frasier episode where he stops to pick up a woman stranded in the rain and she ends up being a prostitute and he goes to jail for the night and is humiliated in front of the whole city, plus his kid.

[Firebird]

I have noticed that the more I have to lose, the less I am willing to take a risk to help others.

That is a really good point, Angel. Before, it was just me and DH. Now I have this whole other life that I have to consider in my decision making. How annoying!

(Just kidding. But it definitely does change things.)

[Works4me]

FB - I am glad that you are putting Firechick first.

Do not mean to be judgemental - one of the costs of having a baby without a fully funded EF is that you have to look at many small decisions much more closely because your margin for error is extemely narrow.

Having to pay the $500 deductible or worse yet replace the vehicle could dereail your plans for the best way to start your family life. Unfortunately that has to come first. Thankfully, you know that.

[resolution]

When do you help your friends? When do you stay away? What's an "acceptable" level of risk to you when it comes to helping out your friends? And why is this stuff so damn complicated?!?

I find that we are able to help people more now than we were in the past. We have more resources and it wouldn't hurt as much to lose some of them. We try to find ways to help that puts a limit on our potential loss. I would never co-sign a loan for anyone but I might offer to pay someones bills for a month to get back on their feet. For example a friend needed a car, and we had an older car that we didn't need. We didn't want to loan out the car and keep it in our name, so we just gave him the car. We signed over the title and gave him a bill of sale for $1. In another instance we made a loan of $1500 to a friend and we had a signed agreement with a schedule for him to pay it back. If he didn't pay it back we would have been able to take the loss. As it was he took an extra 5 months, which was fine.

I would say the worst experience we had helping someone was DH's elderly neighbor. We had been doing some grocery shopping for him and he was getting too thin so I had started cooking and bringing over some meals. He refused to go to the hospital. At some point he couldn't get up anymore and he was just sitting in his own waste on the couch. We called adult protective services to see if they could find some placement for him where he could get help, and they basically put him on their low priority list and stalled coming out since we were taking him to the bathroom several times a day and feeding him. It was really awful and not something we were prepared for. I would really hesitate to take physical care of someone that I don't have to and get stuck again. I would much rather help someone by throwing money at the problem.

In your friend's case, it is a good idea to add her to your insurance if the policy doesn't cover someone borrowing the car on a regular basis. Or maybe buy her a month BART pass if you can afford to. Something that will put a limit on what it could cost you rather than open ended liability.

[Firebird]

Having to pay the $500 deductible or worse yet replace the vehicle could dereail your plans for the best way to start your family life. Unfortunately that has to come first. Thankfully, you know that.

Definitely doesn't hurt to remind me, as the last thread proved.

[Works4me]

Sorry = did not mean to rub your nose in it. I am impressed that you are putting your family first and that is a good thing.

On a positive note - can you feel her yet?

ETA - it has been really hard for me to make some of the changes necessary right now as my financial affairs are totally intermingled with my father's. Fortunately both of us are fairly sane - lol. However, this reminds me that I do need to turn in info on caregivers who drive his care regularly.

[Firebird]

On a positive note - can you feel her yet?

I kept reminding myself to tell you, and then forgetting! I still haven't felt her on the inside yet but, oddly, DH and I both felt her moving on the outside! It was so trippy, he reached over one night and stuck his hand on my belly and I said something sarcastic like "Yeah, you'll be able to feel her before me" and, lo and behold, he actually did feel her! And I could too!

(Of course he has not shut up about it since - he loves it when he beats me at something

Now I can occasionally feel her pushing on the outside, if I have my hand on my stomach and I'm not moving and I'm concentrating really hard. Still haven't felt anything inside. She's a tricky one, this kid.

And you're not rubbing my nose in anything. I was being honest when I said that I need the occasional reminders.

[Peace Of Mind]

May 22, 2012 15:52:32 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I take my finances very seriously and I will not do anything to potentially screw that up. A few years ago my mom was going through her second bankruptcy (don't get me started!). I can't remember why but my aunt wanted her to buy a car and put it in my name. I "think" it was because they already had a car (well, in addition to the one that was repossessed)...I admit to not knowing bankrupcty laws. Anyway, beyond the fact that my mom filing bankruptcy for a second time was a major issue with me...I have way too much to lose if she were every in an accident and got sued. If the car was in my name, I would be involved in the lawsuit.

I also don't let anyone else drive my car for that same reason.

Me too. Plus I had an experience at a very young age that made sure I didn't ever make that mistake in the future. But it really wasn't a mistake. I'll explain: I was 18 and had purchased another car. I wanted to sell the first one. A guy I worked with needed a car and wanted to buy it. But he wasn't able to qualify for a loan so we worked it out that he'd take the car and make payments to me. I was living on my own but when my insurance renewed my mom and I were discussing whether I should keep the insurance on it. Mom brought up "What if the car gets wrecked?" So I kept the insurance on the 1st one too. He totaled the car. He got drunk and slammed into a tree. He was fine. I got reimbursed and ended up with more than the car was being sold for. So it was a lesson that didn't cost me anything so to speak. And my insurance did not go up. Yay!

FB - When I read your OP I was shocked that you were loaning your car out. I was pissed on your behalf that your friend didn't even tell you about the ticket. I think this should be your learning experience too and it won't cost you what it could have had it been worse. I feel that if you ignore this first experience (you come out ok the first time and learn something valuable from it) something worse happens until you get it. Get it now before something worse happens. That's how I look at life and it seems to work for me.

Oops - Now you are talking about babies. I'm late to the party.

[Firebird]

I think this should be your learning experience too and it won't cost you what it could have had it been worse. I feel that if you ignore this first experience (you come out ok the first time and learn something valuable from it) something worse happens until you get it. Get it now before something worse happens.

Agreed. Lesson learned.

Oops - Now you are talking about babies. I'm late to the party.

Nah, just answering a question from sj. We don't need to make EVERY thread about my kid. I'm sure she'll grow up just as self-centered as me but there's no need to help her along

[Peace Of Mind]

LOL! Now that you are going to be a parent you'll really want to err on the safe side. So your friend helped you. Your good deed was not punishment but a lesson. And you can blame the baby for the reason she can't borrow the car. Win/win!


Disclaimer: I'm not serious about her blaming her baby. It's the REASON.

[simser]

I have actually never been burned by helping someone out. Ever. And I'm a bleeding heart liberal. I've given a friend $500 to put in his bank account to bring his wife and child over here from Botswana and it was paid back within 2 weeks. I had planned on it being a gift. I volunteered in an underprivledged neighborhood and never had anything bad happen. I'd do anything for a friend.

This DUI thing is throwing me because I expected her to want to turn her life around and she gave me an excuse of being a redhead so she was just passionately reacting So I don't think that I would be helping, so I'm helping by not enabling. My other friends have an open invitation to stay here if they ever need it.

On the other hand... only 2 other people have driven my car. One was my ex husband (and I couldn't stand that) and one was my best friend who was an idiot and needed a car one time for safety. I was worried that whole time. It's not something that I would like to do ever again I get too nervous while someone else is driving. And with my ex there was good reason- he's the only idiot I know to driven an automatic like a stick shift, so he was "shifting" from 3rd to 4th gear at 40mph and stomped on the "clutch" aka the brake. Dumba$$.

[NastyWoman]

May 22, 2012 15:34:32 GMT -5 Angel! said:

May 22, 2012 14:37:30 GMT -5 Firebird said:

When do you help your friends? When do you stay away? What's an "acceptable" level of risk to you when it comes to helping out your friends? And why is this stuff so damn complicated?!?

I have noticed that the more I have to lose, the less I am willing to take a risk to help others. I won't let others drive my car because if insurance won't cover it,

I would check my insurance to make sure another driver would not be covered. Mine absolutely does. I even went so far to check with my insurance whether DS would be covered with his Singapore license, And guess what --- he would be. Of course next thing I know DS had no time to get his license and he doesn't get to drive my car after all

[ontrack]

Firebird, I had sort of a similar situation to yours where I ended up burned. While in grad school, I did a summer internship in DC and I left the car my parents gave me when they got a new one at home. My dad lent it to a parishioner (he's a pastor) who was trying to get on her feet. They worked it out with insurance and she promised not to smoke in it. Well, when I get back from my internship and need the car, she won't return it. We had to threaten to call the cops and report it stolen for her to give it back, and when she does, it's obvious she smoked like a chimney in it--it reeked for months! Needless to say, no good deed goes unpunished.