Another 17 year old gunned down.....

[Value Buy]

This time in Michigan, by a family member, and evidently he was not wearing a hoodie. Police heard the follow up kill shots on his 911 call, telling the police he had been shot.
usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/22/11805562-grandmother-charged-with-murder-after-allegedly-shooting-grandson-eight-times?lite

I wonder if Grandma was a Democrat?
Sounds like he was a Trayvon Martin wannabe, based on school and anedotal reports, not that makes it okay to kill him.
Just trying to point out it is not as black and white as everyone like to make it out to be. There are so many shades of gray involved.

[Opti]

I think I'm missing the shades of grey at the moment. Looks like a case where the parents made the wrong decision to keep their son with grandma. Not sure whether grandma snapped or not, but if the parents had taken him after the March incident perhaps Grandma wouldn't be in jail and their son would still be alive.

[Tennesseer]

May 22, 2012 8:40:46 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

This time in Michigan, by a family member, and evidently he was not wearing a hoodie. Police heard the follow up kill shots on his 911 call, telling the police he had been shot.
usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/22/11805562-grandmother-charged-with-murder-after-allegedly-shooting-grandson-eight-times?lite

I wonder if Grandma was a Democrat?
Sounds like he was a Trayvon Martin wannabe, based on school and anedotal reports, not that makes it okay to kill him.
Just trying to point out it is not as black and white as everyone like to make it out to be. There are so many shades of gray involved.

Oh you ittle scamp you.

[Value Buy]

Optimist, I am referring to the gunning down of a teenager who does not seem to fit into adults perceptions of what they should be like, and pay the ultimate price for their perceived transgressions.
It is not necessarily a race issue which the Martin case is. If Martin was white, that case never would have been discussed nationally.
Parents made the wrong decision?
Maybe, but, maybe not. That detail will follow in the coming days.
Were they moving due to lack of jobs, or finding there son a new life somewhere elese.
Grandmothers are always left with the kids, which sometimes is the wrong thing to do.
The boy had made some poor choices in his past, but did not deserve this.

[Tennesseer]

Not sure what this has to do with Trayvon Martin.

[mmhmm]

I disagree, Value Buy. Because of the "Stand Your Ground" law in Florida, I believe the Martin/Zimmerman case would have received national attention anyway. The law is faulty.

[Value Buy]

Whenever I talk about shades of gray (or grey, which one is correct?) I always think of the great song, "Black and White" by Michael Jackson and Paul McCartney.

[Tennesseer]

Grey.

[Deleted]

"I'm not saying he was aggressive, but if he was, I don't understand how being aggressive but unarmed would justify her using deadly force

We are being manipulated again. The writer is suggesting that a 17 year old boy could pose no physical danger to 74 year old woman & that's just not true. I really miss the old days where newsmen didn't have an opinion about the stories & just told you the facts. They also didn't make the story better by slanting it. I guess that there's 2 main reasons for the change in news reporting. 1. They feel that they can get away with swaying people toward their agenda. 2. They feel that people are dumber than a box of rocks.

[Opti]

May 22, 2012 9:02:28 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Not sure what this has to do with Trayvon Martin.

I'm thinking nothing. Just a tenuous link because he was 17 and got killed by gun fire.

At the moment, nothing gray about the situation. VB you may disagree with my conclusion but if there was a domestic violence incident in March and it is clear the grandparents can't handle him I think leaving him in that situation is asking for trouble. They probably didn't expect Grandma to shoot him, but just because it was convenient for them to do so because of their choices does not let them off the hook as parents.

Yes many kids over the years have been left with grandparents. Does not make it wise in all circumstances.

[Value Buy]

May 22, 2012 9:03:39 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I disagree, Value Buy. Because of the "Stand Your Ground" law in Florida, I believe the Martin/Zimmerman case would have received national attention anyway. The law is faulty.

Flawed, a little bit, but upon further review as evidence is coming out, Zimmerman just might be able to use that Stand your ground law, with the sidewalk and his head being used, as evidence.
He may not even have to use the law to escape a conviction.
Grandma better hope Michigan has a similar law.
When do we find out she was a Democrat?
Sounds like there was a lot of overkill and metal anguish involved in this killing.
But, there I go, making observations of facts not in evidence.

[Tennesseer]

I don't know if there are any white democrats in Michigan. Do you?

[Value Buy]

May 22, 2012 9:11:55 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

I don't know if there are any white democrats in Michigan. Do you?

Granted, most have retired and moved to Arizona or Florida, but I think there are still a few there. Grandma might have been left behind to fend for herself, or live off the Union pension and Government largesse.
The Unions are still filled with white Democrats.

[mmhmm]

May 22, 2012 9:09:35 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

May 22, 2012 9:03:39 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I disagree, Value Buy. Because of the "Stand Your Ground" law in Florida, I believe the Martin/Zimmerman case would have received national attention anyway. The law is faulty.

Flawed, a little bit, but upon further review as evidence is coming out, Zimmerman just might be able to use that Stand your ground law, with the sidewalk and his head being used, as evidence.
He may not even have to use the law to escape a conviction.
Grandma better hope Michigan has a similar law.
When do we find out she was a Democrat?
Sounds like there was a lot of overkill and metal anguish involved in this killing.
But, there I go, making observations of facts not in evidence.

LOL! Yep, you're certainly making observations of facts not in evidence. When we're talking about things that "might" happen, that's almost always the case, isn't it? We'll have to see what happens in the Martin/Zimmerman case, and it's not even similar to this case, based on the knowlege we have at this point (which is very darned little).

[zibazinski]

Michigans law is based off of Floridas.

[mmhmm]

Thanks, zib. That's good information to have.

[zibazinski]

Only reason I know that was Saturday was my CPL class and an attorney spoke for several hours about Trayvon case and the laws in Michigan and Florida.

[zibazinski]

In his opinion, Zimmerman is on thin ice.

[handyman2]

Reading the whole report on this story the grandma may have more of a stand your ground defense than Zimmerman. The grandson has a past.

[Deleted]

I don't know if there are any white democrats in Michigan. Do you?

I can answer that question. Yes there are a lot of white democrats in Michigan. I know because my wife's family lives in MN & it's so huge that fall out members live in the states around it (they won't all fit in one state).

Anyway when it comes to voting they are all democrats. Understand that they may not agree with democratic idea & may not even know what the current aims are, it's just that they (the whole family) has always voted democrat. I was married for 14 years before my MIL found out that I was a republican (maybe the first that she had ever known).

[zibazinski]

As does Zimmerman and Trayvon. The issue is going to be where it happened. That's a big deal. In neither state you have the duty to retreat but it's going to be an interesting case, that Florida one.

[zibazinski]

That 911 call he made is going to hurt her defense. Whoever calls 911 first gets the upper hand.

[floridayankee]

May 22, 2012 9:06:58 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

"I'm not saying he was aggressive, but if he was, I don't understand how being aggressive but unarmed would justify her using deadly force

We are being manipulated again. The writer is suggesting that a 17 year old boy could pose no physical danger to 74 year old woman & that's just not true.

My question would be more about what kind of harm a 17yo with one (or more) already in his chest and talking on the phone to 911 dispatchers can pose.

During Layne's arraignment Monday, a police detective testified that Hoffman frantically told a 911 dispatcher he had been shot in the chest by his grandmother and that he was going to die.

"At approximately the three-minute mark of the 911 call, the subject screamed and exclaimed that he had just been shot again," Detective Brad Boulet said, according to The Detroit News. "Responding officers heard several gunshots inside the house."

I can see no reason to continue pumping the kid full of lead no matter how unruly the kid was.

[mmhmm]

Sounds to me like the lady lost it, FY. Why, we don't know. The kid does have a history, but what brought it to this hasn't been discussed, to my knowledge.

[Opti]

Per the video whe bought a gun a week after another kid under the influence of drugs either killed or significantly harmed his family. It wasn't in the attached article, just in the video.

[mmhmm]

I'd seen that, Optimist. You've got to wonder, though, if something happened between them on this particular day to warrant her deciding this was to be his last day on earth. Unless she's completely lost her marbles, it doesn't seem feasible she just walked into where he was and started firing.

[zibazinski]

That is what is going to do her in. You are justified in using deadly force if you feel your life is in danger but when you have to go after the victim, it becomes very shaky ground. If he was in HER bedroom, that's a whole different story.

[Deleted]

May 22, 2012 8:40:46 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

This time in Michigan, by a family member, and evidently he was not wearing a hoodie. Police heard the follow up kill shots on his 911 call, telling the police he had been shot.
usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/22/11805562-grandmother-charged-with-murder-after-allegedly-shooting-grandson-eight-times?lite

I wonder if Grandma was a Democrat?
Sounds like he was a Trayvon Martin wannabe, based on school and anedotal reports, not that makes it okay to kill him.
Just trying to point out it is not as black and white as everyone like to make it out to be. There are so many shades of gray involved.

I'm still scratching my head to see even a whisper of a common denominator other than two 17 years old being shot dead?

Sorry, this is all a bit mystifying.

I suppose other than applied math, few things are right and wrong, black and white...gray has always been a cool color (now red, that would be a hot color).

What is your point? This even stretches my abundant and often loopy imagination.

[billisonboard]

May 22, 2012 9:06:58 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

"I'm not saying he was aggressive, but if he was, I don't understand how being aggressive but unarmed would justify her using deadly force

We are being manipulated again. ...

Michael Hoffman said that regardless of his son's behavior, the teen was unarmed and didn't deserve to be shot to death.

"I'm not saying he was aggressive, but if he was, I don't understand how being aggressive but unarmed would justify her using deadly force," Hoffman said according to ClickOnDetroit.com.

But fortunately we can read the entire quote and not let ourselves be manipulated here on the message board.

[Deleted]

Not quite related, but interesting nonetheless:

Here in Houston, some people are having a big hissy fit about a white cop acquitted of charges associated with kicking a suspect during an arrest (I think he violated police rules but for whatever reason it didn't bring a criminal conviction).

One of the reasons for the hissy is that the jury was all-white. Never mind the fact that the prosecution also had to agree to choose this jury.... But one person close to the case (I wich I could remember who) gave his explanation as to why blacks are under-represented on juries: they don't show up for jury duty.

Anyway, sorry for the hijack. Back to the argument already in progress....