No More Sheriff Funding / Jails Closed!

[findingdeadbeats]

I don't know if this is making national news or not. But, I think it is a very scary time and this is likely where many of our CA counties are heading. We already have towns who are no longer providing police services 24/7 and very low numbers of sheriff's officers. We are the second largest county in CA, and I think we have something like 3 or 4 officers on at any time. You can call here and the nearest officer is well over an hours drive away...

Josephine County in Oregon recently had a tax levy on their ballot that failed. The following day they laid off over 70% of the sheriff's department, they no longer have 24/7 sheriff response except for a city with an officer in trouble call, closed the juvenile jail and are closing and releasing all of their adult jailbirds as well. In addition, they are also saying on the news that their county no longer has the funding to prosecute crimes, so nothing under a major felony will be prosecuted. DUI = not a major felony.

The surrounding counties and rural folks are all freaking out because this will bring crime to their area. After the normal M-F 8-5 if you are in the county area, you have no one in law enforcement you can call for a crime or emergency. None. Imagine someone breaking into your house or something and calling 911 and no one comes until the next day...

www.oregonlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2012/05/because_of_tax_levy_defeat_jos.html

[Ava]

I cannot believe we'll get to a situation like that. It's barbarian.
I am sure something will be worked out. Remember every time government funding would run out and government was just supposed to shut down?
It never happened, and it never would.
This is a civilized country, there'll be a solution.

[Ava]

Ok. I just read the article in your link. Apparently my view of "something will be done" is what caused this situation. But I understand the citizenship's stand. We pay a lot of taxes, I personally (like many others) haven't got a raise above 2% in the last 4 years, and no raise at all this year. My insurance premium goes up every year. No, I don't want a levy, I don't want to pay more taxes. There has to be another way.

[justme]

Yeah, the solution is cutting a crap ton of programs that people "need". It ain't gonna happen until enough people feel the pain of no police.

[findingdeadbeats]

I think people are so anti-tax that nearly any proposal for a tax increase is going to get denied.

I used to think working for the state/county would be a good job with good retirement, but now I really question that. I think some retired folks are going to see their retirement disappear and are going to be totally screwed.

[973beachbum]

May 19, 2012 11:17:17 GMT -5 @findingdeadbeats said:

I think people are so anti-tax that nearly any proposal for a tax increase is going to get denied.

I used to think working for the state/county would be a good job with good retirement, but now I really question that. I think some retired folks are going to see their retirement disappear and are going to be totally screwed.

I also live in a rural county although it gets pretty crowded on the weekends in the summer. The joys of living down the shore. My town has a large precent of state owned forests. The state cut the funding that we got for policing it. Well we are a rural towny that relies on the state police anyway. So the town cut off the money that is sends to the state police to patrol them. The state got mad but what did they think the town would do?

Raising taxes by 300% is pretty harsh even if it ends as less than the rest of the state.

[lurkyloo]

Yikes, that's a scary prospect.

In California, the budget has been so badly mishandled that I could see further taxes failing. They're already among the highest for personal income tax, sales tax, and cost-of-employing-people. Property tax, while low percentage-wise, is often still high dollars-wise because of relatively high property values even after the slump. People are tired of the sky is falling (in this case, it's schools-are-getting-cut-again) rhetoric. I personally think that they charge us so much money to live here that they can damn well figure out how to live on what they get.

But then, my personal in-case-of-emergency plan is to move to a different state.

[findingdeadbeats]

Yeah, I am seriously considering moving in a few years to another state. I would prefer whatever state has the lowest costs for health care and the highest income/employment.

[lurkyloo]

And that's the good news--as soon as your DS2 graduates, you're free to do what you like WTG.

[deantrip]

One of our constitutional rights is the right to bear arms, not only for our defense from other people, but to defend ourselves from our government in times of tyranny or lack of government protection. I live in an area with a very high gun usage and I don't know a single person who wouldn't use a firearm to protect themselves or their family. Even if you can call 911, in the case of a home invasion, it will either turn into a hostage situation or they will just show up to clean up the mess afterwards, when seconds count you need to be able to rely on yourselves.

[findingdeadbeats]

We fired off about 40 rounds today of the rifle and the .45mm. I find it important to do so every few months as a warning to the newer neighbors that we have guns and know how to use them. (we are allowed to shoot in this area)

The sheriff here will tell you to arm yourself if you live this far out of town. It's just a matter of logistics that law enforcement might be a long way away if you have an issue. However, I do have to give props to the CA Highway Patrol because in this area if they are around they will respond to calls for help whether it is for them or not. If they are the closest they seem to come help out.

When we first moved up here I saw a group of CHP officers once putting cattle back into someone's yard. All I could think of at the time was in the Bay Area they would have shot your cow and then sent you a huge bill because it got out. ;D

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

If anyone's interested, there's a lengthy thread on California's budget crisis/deficit over in the P&M forum.

[zibazinski]

I got my CPL yesterday. We live in a good area but are being stalked by a crazy. I have no intention of living my life in fear ever again.

[resolution]

In my home town they would cut schools and keep the subsidies for the professional baseball and football stadiums. If I lived in that area I would want to see the budget to see what they weren't cutting while they closed the jail.

[973beachbum]

May 20, 2012 3:04:07 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Sure cut the police and fire departments, but what ever you do DON'T cut the entitlement programs, especially for the illegals.

That is the problem with entitlement. You can't cut them because the people are entitled to them. I am not saying it isn't a problem that needs to be dealt with but just saying to cut things that we all know can't be cut isn't a solution.

There are towns near me that have been cutting police like mad. The real problem in my mind was why does a silly town with almost no crime have 75-100 full time officers in the first place? The "big" crimes here are young people going through cars to see which are open and stealing change from by the drivers seat that people keep there for the tolls and parking meters. the other big one is calls for indecent exposure of surfers who slip out of their wet suit into their bathing suit behind a towel or in a small tent thing they set up. Seriously if that is your big crime poeple need to get a life! What takes up most of their time are writing tickets for parking violations which they need because that is what pays for all those police and round and round it goes.


But the battle cry is always but cutting the bloated police dept will leave us unsafe.

[Deleted]

I'm packing, let them bust in my door. I'll save the state the cost of a trial.

[Deleted]

It's complicated. In the West the Federal Gov't owns wide swaths of land where no tax revenue goes to the local counties. In Josephine I believe that half the land is owned by the Feds. In return for the loss of logging revenue (due to environmental regulations, lawsuits, change in paper habits, etc) the gov't has been giving the counties money. These counties in Oregon have the lowest property tax rates in the state - something like 44 cents for every $1000 in assessed value. I think the average is over $2. There's a lot of poverty but there's also a lot of denial. They've gotten used to the free money and low taxes and don't want to pay more. OTOH families are fleeing these rural counties because of the crappy schools and lack of services.

The recent levy would have quadrupled property taxes, although they still would have been substantially lower than in other counties. I think we're just going to see an acceleration in the trend of rural areas losing population.

[findingdeadbeats]

We are losing a significant amount of our local population of working age adults and their families. The trend started when the Spotted Owl was listed and most logging operations shut down in this area. Our local elementary school had over 400 students at one time. They currently have less than 70 and the number drops each year as people move for work.

The lack of timber payments is causing major problems for our county and public schools, but it isn't a great surprise because they were scheduled to end. I think people thought the feds would extend them, but it has been over 10 years. They did have all that time to work on alternative solutions...

Another problem is that they recently announced that the county is now responsible for maintaining forest roads. In my county, this accounts for well over 1100 miles of dirt, mostly logging, roadways. The public works department is operating at bare bones funding already and can't keep up with the needs of paved road problems in the county. They have said publicly that they cannot/won't do much for the remote areas. They warned people to watch for trees across roadways and stuff like that when out exploring the wilderness.

[NastyWoman]

And how is this "h*ll no we're not going to increase taxes, someone else will need to pay for these services" different from entitlement we accuse the people on welfare off? If county X wants services and it's people are not willing to pay for them because they feel the federal government needs to come through and pay for them then that county is on the dole. And what do you want to bet that this is a very conservative area as well. Taxed Enough Already anyone?

[zibazinski]

The thing is taxpayers pay their tax dollars for these services and not for welfare. Taxpayers want what they pay for, not what some politician uses their tax dollars to buy votes with.

[NastyWoman]

Zib, you misunderstood what I was trying to say but it looks to me like these particular taxpayers want others (you and me) to pay for the services they want. They count on the federal government to bail them out even though the county has had 10 years to find other sources of income to make up for the lost logging revenue. And I really don't think I should have to pay for their infrastructure as well as ours just becaus they don't want to pay for it.

[Deleted]

We are losing a significant amount of our local population of working age adults and their families. The trend started when the Spotted Owl was listed and most logging operations shut down in this area. Our local elementary school had over 400 students at one time. They currently have less than 70 and the number drops each year as people move for work.

First they came for the loggers, destroying 30,000 jobs and countless lives. Now they’re coming for the Barred Owl.

Anyone remember the Great Spotted Owl Controversy? Back in the late 80s and early 90s, it was the first major instance of the environmental movement (with the cooperation of Al Gore and the Clinton administration) using the Endangered Species Act to accomplish their stealth goal — in this case driving productive mankind out of millions of acres of federally owned old-growth forest.

When a judge ruled that cutting down trees endangered the picky owl’s habitat and had to end, it sparked widespread protests and marches by soon-to-be out-of-work loggers.

The economies of small towns in the Pacific Northwest collapsed, as the rural chainsaw-wielding Kulaks were defenestrated by judicial edict.

Oops. Fast forward 20 years. According to the Oregonian, the spotted owl (Strix occidentalis) wasn’t served a copy of the court ruling, and has continued to die off. Turns out the major culprit in its demise was evolution — in the form of the barred owl, a closely related species that is bigger, more omnivorous, and generally all around superior to the spotted owl. Barred owls (Strix varia), also native to North America, seize spotted owl habitat and out-compete the endangered species.

The only solution, which has riled even some environmentalists, is no evolution: The Fish and Wildlife service plans to start taxing the successful barred owl to bail out the big-government lobby’s spotted owl. Terminally tax. With firearms. They will be killing owls in order to save them.

The method of control is gruesome. They plan to use the barred owl’s fierce devotion to its property rights against it. barred owls attack other owls that invade its territory. So steely eyed, shotgun-toting environmentalists plan to play owl calls over loudspeakers, and when the evil barred owl comes to investigate — pow.

www.nationalreview.com/articles/260150/killing-owls-save-owls-lou-dolinar#

[zibazinski]

I am from Oregon and I remember the trouble this caused to the economy.

[moxie]

This is very sad news...I was once a SHERIFF ya know. ;D lol

[moxie]

"I am from Oregon"

So lucky.

[zibazinski]

Lucky to be FROM it. Thanks but no thanks. The lousy weather and the granola eaters are not my style. Anyone who became someone got the hell out.

[findingdeadbeats]

The next DOA nightmare is the removal of the Klamath River hydroelectric dams for the coho salmon. (another non-native species...) There is currently a whistle blower suit over this mess and the junk science behind it...

[zibazinski]

[skubikky]

May 19, 2012 10:33:24 GMT -5 @findingdeadbeats said:

I don't know if this is making national news or not. But, I think it is a very scary time and this is likely where many of our CA counties are heading. We already have towns who are no longer providing police services 24/7 and very low numbers of sheriff's officers. We are the second largest county in CA, and I think we have something like 3 or 4 officers on at any time. You can call here and the nearest officer is well over an hours drive away...

Josephine County in Oregon recently had a tax levy on their ballot that failed. The following day they laid off over 70% of the sheriff's department, they no longer have 24/7 sheriff response except for a city with an officer in trouble call, closed the juvenile jail and are closing and releasing all of their adult jailbirds as well. In addition, they are also saying on the news that their county no longer has the funding to prosecute crimes, so nothing under a major felony will be prosecuted. DUI = not a major felony.

The surrounding counties and rural folks are all freaking out because this will bring crime to their area. After the normal M-F 8-5 if you are in the county area, you have no one in law enforcement you can call for a crime or emergency. None. Imagine someone breaking into your house or something and calling 911 and no one comes until the next day...

www.oregonlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2012/05/because_of_tax_levy_defeat_jos.html

I remember you said just recently that the type of people that have bought land and set up trailers or other living arrangements were from the scruffier side of society. Guess they picked the right county.

[zibazinski]

Oregons economy is terrible and has been for many years. Californians coming up with their ways and attitudes didn't help it. It'll go the way of CA if they don't do something. Tons of illegals and riff raff migrate there.