School budgets and layoffs

[Miss Tequila]

"It would have happened this fall without the transportation cut. As it is, our operating budget is barely above the line, but our three year reserve fund thing is way, way, under where it needs to be. Without one of the bond measures, or an increase in state/fed funding, it's only a matter of time. Lots of school districts in the greater area here are in the exact same boat. They've all cut as much as they can, but they're running at a deficit every year and their reserve funds are running out. If there isn't a big turn around in the economy, or a funding increase at the state/fed level, California will start taking over a whole lot of really broke districts in the next couple years. "

is the issue related to the cap on school taxes? I know nothing about CA school funding but I can say that you guys pay a LOT less in taxes than we do. But I also don't know the % of state funding compared to PA.

[moxie]

I have been subbing here and there, not much, as I just signed up here where I am just this winter. Let me tell you...it is a different world in the classroom these days. A good number of the kids are inattentive, squirrely, disrespectful and could care less about learning. It really makes me sad that a good portion of my day is spent more on disciplining the naughty ones while the ones who want to learn get the short end of the stick. Something needs to change! I am old school with regard to education...spend every minute of the school day teaching, kids sitting up straight and paying attention...it's quite disappointing to see such a turn for the worse in education. There is a lot of wasted time in the classroom today...again, not in all classrooms, but in many... IMO

[Sum Dum Gai]

is the issue related to the cap on school taxes?

Depends on who you listen too when they all start pointing fingers.

From our view the biggest issue comes down to state and federal mandates that aren't funded. Yes the older pension plans may have been overly generous, yes you have districts that are too top heavy administration wise, yes you have some districts that spent way too much on buildings, sport's fields, etc. In the end though, all that stuff is a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of spending that goes into meeting state and fed mandates without getting reimbursed for it. The biggest piece of that is special ed and ESL resources which we have to provide by law, but we only get reimbursed something like ten cents on the dollar for what we spend.

[findingdeadbeats]

I worked for a CA charter school during it's first two years in existence. The local school district doesn't have to provide them with anything other than supporting their "charter" and a place to get their funds funneled in from the state. Our chartering district hated us, but they were more than willing to take their oversight funding!

The school board members down in the Mt. Shasta school district have health insurance for being on the board that are 100% paid by the school. I think things like that need to stop - like yesterday.

[Sum Dum Gai]

The local school district doesn't have to provide them with anything other than supporting their "charter" and a place to get their funds funneled in from the state. Our chartering district hated us, but they were more than willing to take their oversight funding!

You sure about that, because that's not what our district lawyer said at the meeting when they discussed the charter school proposal here.

[findingdeadbeats]

www.edsource.org/iss_charter_laws.html

Pretty sure. Unless it is a new law in the last couple years, which is always possible.

I know our sponsor district didn't pay for any of our expenses at all. They simply acted as a funnel/suction device for the funding. I did the books and can tell you with 100% accuracy that was the case.

The other thought is that maybe instead of a random group/person starting the charter school it is the district itself? In that case, if they are getting the funding for ADA, then they have to find a way to pay for the charter school's needs.

I have never heard of a random district being required to fund a new charter school. If that were the case, every asshat out there that wants to start one would be able to...

[Sum Dum Gai]

Thanks for the link Shasta. I found this way on the bottom of the page, and it might be the law that's causing the school district to have to share some costs with the proposed charter;

Proposition 39
In November 2000, voters passed Proposition 39, which lowers the threshold needed to approve local general obligation bonds for school construction from a two-thirds to a 55% majority. Proposition 39 also offered guarantees to charter schools, ensuring that students who attend a charter school in their district of residence have facilities that are “sufficient” and “reasonably equivalent” to the other buildings or classrooms in the district. The buildings also need to be “furnished and equipped” and reasonably close to where the charter school wishes to locate. However, to get this support, the charter school must serve a minimum of 80 students who live within the district’s boundaries.

I'll look it up later and see what I can find.

I should have known it would stem from a proposition and not the state legislature though. If the voters of this state would start voting no on any and all propositions, even the ones they agree with, we'd have a lot fewer messes.

[findingdeadbeats]

Yeah, but that doesn't say that the district has to pay for those facilities. Or, maybe they do if the new charter has over 80 kids? Our school was a public charter school in CA, and our starting funds came personally from those who started the school, until any funding was received from the state.

Not trying to be argumentative, but I just haven't ever heard anyone say that a district is required to supply buildings to a charter school that wants to start in their area. That rule could turn into a hot mess quickly...

My experiences with the school taught me that:

1. You can be an administrator at a charter school, without an administrative credential and make over $120K a year in salary, even when your school has about 100 kids in it...

2. That they are a lot of work because they are still "government" schools and have to satisfy all of the same BS that other public schools have to.

3. Good luck getting students to do STAR testing, if your charter caters to the odder homeschoolers around. They want your funding for their supplies but they do not want to participate in testing at all. Pretty much ever.

4. You get two groups of kids. You get the overly involved parental types who bring their kids because the public schools suck and they want their kids to have a different education. And, you get a ton of the "drop out" kids who want to register so that they can get their work permits or probation situations worked out, and then they disappear.

I left not terribly convinced that the students got a better education than they would have in a typical crappy CA school. Some of the brilliant kids did great, some of the drop-out group managed to graduate, and many of the kids probably just spent a ton less time on school to get the same crappy education they would have gotten in the traditional school setting...

Another interesting note is that our local high school district is going to offer online school next year. With that trend, the need for physical buildings is lessening, and the entire school system is changing.

[Chocolate Lover]

Iggy, aren't they required to have so many days of school, however it's sliced? Won't they still end up spending the same amount over a longer period of time??

[Deleted]

skinnykids - I'm glad you are in a responsive school district. The parks & rec bond was huge - I think $200 or more a year. It's disappointing because one of our high schools ranked as the 20th in the nation on U.S. News & World report. I couldn't believe when the levy was shot down.

dark - I went to a CA public school and got a fabulous education. Even without a TAG program at the high school level they were good at responding to kids abilities - they would just bump you ahead to the next year. The last year of school I took classes at UCSC because my counselor put me in the program.

There's been a real pushback against teachers here. One teacher wrote in to the newspaper that she makes "only 70k and doesn't get paid for summers". You can imagine how that went over in a state where the average household income is 50k. I'm for hiring more teachers but not for greater pay.

[Deleted]

Iggy, aren't they required to have so many days of school, however it's sliced? Won't they still end up spending the same amount over a longer period of time??


Yup. Doesn't make sense, does it, CL? Their day is going to be extended by an hour, and the school year a bit longer. Our school board is run by a bunch of illogical liberals, but, that is a topic for P & M, which I pretend doesn't exist.

[image]

Our local school districts have been responding to budget cuts by cutting instructional days. I think we're down to 170 or so. Less than half the year.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Iggy, aren't they required to have so many days of school, however it's sliced?

Oh, and Jerry Brown was just in the news recently talking about cutting two or three weeks off the school year if the tax increases on the ballot don't pass this fall.

Yeah, but that doesn't say that the district has to pay for those facilities.

No, but it also doesn't say who's providing the guarantee that the charter school will get facilities that are "sufficient", "reasonably equivalent", "furnished and equipped", and "reasonably close to where the charter school wants to open". If that falls to the school district in question, and the charter school doesn't have the money to provide it themselves, then the district is bound by law to provide it. My guess is that's how it works, based on the info I got from Loop after their last board meeting.

[Sum Dum Gai]

It might not be a total budget killer though. If the charter school is going to take a bunch of kids out of the district, we might be able to give them one of our existing schools, and redraw all the lines to spread the remaining kids out to the remaining schools. You know, if every parent wouldn't throw a shit fit the second you mention redrawing school boundaries.

[giramomma]

May 18, 2012 15:24:19 GMT -5 Chocolate Lover said:

Iggy, aren't they required to have so many days of school, however it's sliced? Won't they still end up spending the same amount over a longer period of time??

Our state decided to change the laws to say that students had to spend a certain amount of minutes in school, rather than days, so that school districts can go to 4 day weeks if needed.

[Deleted]

Alabama's legislature just passed a rather silly law regulating when kids should start school and when they should stop. They can't start until two weeks before Labor Day and must be finished before Labor Day.

A lot of school systems were going to go with the additional minutes per day (trust me . . . adding five minutes to my class every day does not eventually add up to a day), but the State Board of Education just shot them down. Apparently, our constitution (we prefer to pass amendments rather than laws) dictates the number of days that teachers must teach. I sort of knew that because I wondered if we were going to get a pay cut if we worked less days. Schools never want to get in the position of making us hourly employees . . . trust me, no state could afford it.

My husband, who isn't from Alabama, keeps muttering, "There aren't enough problems with the Jefferson County bankruptcy, the immigration law fiasco, and so on that the legislature has extra time figuring out school calendars." He is so right.

[deantrip]

It is usually broken down into hours/minutes of schools, not the amount of days, in many smaller districts in my state, they are looking to try out 4 day weeks, save 20% on janitorial, clerical, administrative, and bussing hourly wages.

[Deleted]

Our school is doing a complete overhaul and remodel of the elementary school. So, they are still spending and upgrading.

[973beachbum]

My kids actually have 2 different school districts that they go to. The one where we live is where my son goes to. They have had a MUCH harder time with the budget. It has been voted down almost every year for as long as i can remember. There really isn't anything left to cut except teachers/classrooms and putting 35 kids in each classroom. The library type stuff was already cut. They only have as much music and arts as the state requires. Unless they can somehow cut the heating and elec bills that soared last year somehow which I doubt.

The HS that my Dd goes to is in another district that we have a sender/receiver agreement with. They have much more vacation houses so have a much easier time with the taxes. That and charging us $24K a year for each student when it costs them only $16K.

Both schools have participation fees for all sports and extra curricular activities already. Those are pretty much self paying with the fund raising they do so they don't impact the budget other than the coaches salary which might be a few thousand a year.

The biggest problem here is the same as Dark's district has. The number and cost of things like special ed and assorted required programs has been soaring! Those things are literally like an entitlement. The school HAS to pay them and has no choice. I don't want to get into that discussion. It just is a huge part of the budget and it CAN'T be cut. I don't think people realize that when they vote down the budget and think they will somehow economize on the students going out of district to the tune of $250K a year plus busing.

I don't know what the answer is but it is a problem. I grew up in a household that talked about how school taxes were "good" taxes. My Mom always used to say that if it wasn't for public schools she and my dad wouldn't have been able to go to school and then college. She also used to always say that EVERYONE benefits from having good public education. All I hear now is about how people shouldn't have to pay school taxes because their kids aren't in school anymore or how their home is their second home so they won't use the schools. I can't fathom how people can be so stupid not to realize that others paid school taxes so that their kids could go to school even though their kids were done. The system was set up so that it only works with everyone helping. (Steps off soapbox now but still wants to say I still pay way less taxes than Tina. )

[zibazinski]

I think people would be okay with more taxes IF they thought they were getting good value for their money. They aren't anymore. I went to some pretty lousy farm schools and, yet, I got a decent education because I behaved in school so even if I had mean old maid teachers, I still learned. And GOD help you if you didnt behave because your parents killed you after the teacher and principal did. I know special needs kids suck up a lot of resources and I don't know what the answer is. It short changes the rest of the gen Ed who certainly have a right to an education as well.

[zibazinski]

Besides, it takes a hell of a lot of nerve to ask for more tax dollars to fund more admins and special projects when the economy is so bad. Send back those that don't belong here and you might have some extra cash for all students. If CA can't step up to the plate and get rid of its illegals, then the people who vote are getting exactly what they want or deserve.

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

May 19, 2012 19:49:21 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Besides, it takes a hell of a lot of nerve to ask for more tax dollars to fund more admins and special projects when the economy is so bad. Send back those that don't belong here and you might have some extra cash for all students. If CA can't step up to the plate and get rid of its illegals, then the people who vote are getting exactly what they want or deserve.

Zib, the problem is that getting rid of the illegals is the federal govt's job. They don't do anything about it and then the states on the border (CA, AZ, TX, etc) end up paying millions in year to make up for what the feds won't do. It's bull. As for CA, the state already sends more money to the feds than it gets back in services (Last time I looked, CA only got 78 cents of spending for every dollar sent to the federal govt). That is in addition to paying for all of the services to take care of illegals that the federal govt won't take care of. Look at the mess AZ is in because they tried to enforce immigration laws. The feds sued them because "the states don't have the right to do the fed's job" yet the federal govt won't do it themselves.

I think that we as citizens need to stand up and say we are sick of everything being pushed to the states and cities. If the fed wants to mke mandates, send the $$ with them. If they don't want to do their jobs (like with immigration) or fund their mandates, they should back out of the tax business and give the states the tax funding back. No reason for people in CA, NJ, and other states to be subsidizing those in MS, AL, and LA (Those states get like $1.22 for every $1.00 paid in federal income taxes).

[zibazinski]

VOTE these a-holes out of office!

[The Captain]

May 18, 2012 13:33:18 GMT -5 @moneyjenny82 said:

below a B? Damn....

Little late replying,

YEP! We know what she is capable of and expect her to reach her potential. I don't expect straight A's and wouldn't even mind straight B's, but remember, this is a kid who used well reasoned logic to win arguments with adults at 5 years of age.

BTW - She's pulling straight A's now and not really breaking a sweat...

[wyouser]

[Sum Dum Gai]

YEP! We know what she is capable of and expect her to reach her potential. I don't expect straight A's and wouldn't even mind straight B's, but remember, this is a kid who used well reasoned logic to win arguments with adults at 5 years of age.

We expect straight A's from both of ours, but they're capable of achieving that pretty easily. We did cut the older one a break when her teacher told us during the open house that she never gives A's in the first semester because she felt it made the kids work harder throughout the year to earn one later.

Not that we didn't spend an immensely enjoyable week hinting at all the things our daughter was going to lose if she didn't bring home straight A's on her first report card. Her computer, the ability to play with her friends during the school week, all the toys and books in her room, etc., etc.

[findingdeadbeats]

I have been thinking about this thread.

I have much less issue with educating the illegal immigrant children than I do things like paying for health insurance for a board member. I cannot believe they do that here. Really? You volunteer a couple nights a week, if that, and you get health insurance for it when many of the employees in your own district don't? I think this is one of the problems that needs to be taken care of. Immediately. And, it's a battle I would fight if I lived in that tax zone or had kids in their schools.

Also, if we removed health insurance for employees from public school budgets, there might actually be money in that budget to, you know, teach something... It really seems that these days the entire budgets, up to 80-90% are spent in those two areas before the kids or school actually see a dime of it. That just isn't sustainable as health care costs rise.

[Sum Dum Gai]

You volunteer a couple nights a week, if that, and you get health insurance for it when many of the employees in your own district don't?

Have you ever attended your local school board meetings?

I'm not saying it's a full time job or anything, but they do put in some decent hours. Especially in larger districts. Ours has to meet and vote on every single suspension or expulsion. That's in addition to the regular meetings, the special meetings related to the contract negotiations, and any additional meetings relating to budget issues. Oh, and they don't get free health insurance anyway. They get the ability to buy into the same health insurance that teachers do. For us that meant that we could pay slightly more for worse coverage on my wife. Not exactly the juiciest perk out there. We'd have preferred a $5 Starbuck's gift card every month... or just one a year.

It really seems that these days the entire budgets, up to 80-90% are spent in those two areas before the kids or school actually see a dime of it.

I withdraw my previous question since you've obviously never seen your local school district budget, so probably haven't attended the meetings.

[zibazinski]

Uh, you know very well they are illegal because those that are not illegal have to produce birth certificates and social security numbers as well as health cards to enroll in school. My former school office clerk says she is prohibited from asking obvious illegals for any id on their children. But everyone else has to jump through hoops.

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

May 21, 2012 20:02:37 GMT -5 @insurancegal said:

When the E did our schools become daycare!?

This happened when we as taxpayers decided that we would be held hostage by people that were too irresponsible to be parents. These people know that the taxpayers will hear the cries of "It's for the children" and cave so they procreate and Uncle Sugar steps up to take care of their responsibilities as parents.

I think it's pathetic that we let children stay in the care and custody of people who shouldn't be left alone with a houseplant. The worst part about it in my opinion (aside from the children getting totally screwed over by the people who are supposed to love them the most) is the illogical argument that we should be supporting these people and their children (and not putting the kid in foster care). Not to be mean but if you can't be bothered to get off your lazy a$$ and feed your child (usually with WIC or food stamps) and keep them clean and safe, you aren't a good parent. How the hell is it better for the child to be with that "parent" than in foster care? At least if they are in foster care, you know they aren't being neglected and the state can check up on them. The whole "famiy unification" thing has gone too far in my opinion. Just because you share DNA with someone doesn't make you necessarily the best choice for them and their development (Case in point: healthy adopted children).

[zibazinski]

AMEN! As a GAL, I purposely chose older children because I knew they would be removed from their so-called parents "care" before I got to them. The ones who started with me and supervised the little ones ended up quitting in frustration over the "system."