School budgets and layoffs

[findingdeadbeats]

May 18, 2012 11:13:13 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

May 18, 2012 10:56:43 GMT -5 @findingdeadbeats said:

DS's bus stop moved from the end of our road to ten miles down the highway.

That's insane- how far away is the school? It's one of the things I hate about the Taj Mahal high schools- rather than smaller ones closer to where students live, they put up a new one the size of a community college and kids have to get up at a ridiculous hour for the commute. I would have been up a creek with this arrangement- DS didn't drive in HS and I worked full-time so getting him at the bus stop in the afternoon would have taken a chunk out of my workday.

The high school is 35 miles from our home, one way. In the past, the morning time was 6:30am to get on the bus, which arrived at the HS about 7:45 for the 8am start. Then, the kids would be dropped back off about 4.

It makes for some long days, but there is another bus here that travels up to about 80-100 miles, one way, to bring in the more remote kids for HS.

For our area, they decided that rather than drive on a route and pick up the kids, they now have a "destination" spot where everyone will have to take their own kids to in order to be picked up. For us, that spot is nearly 1/2 way to the school...

I really feel for other parents in the area. That is a lot of miles and expenses to get the kids to/from the bus everyday. Not to mention that the newer driving laws prevent the kids from doing a carpool which would really help the situation out a lot...

I think the HS will likely see another reduction in attendance due to the restrictive busing options now offered. Many people here will home school rather than come up with the money to do all the driving.

It is also a real problem when you work in town. Your kids have to stay in town or figure out how to get home now from the bus stop. In the past, they could just walk if there was no one to pick them up. This is no longer the case. And legally their friends can no longer drive them home either.

DS's job at the grocery store has been working him between 20 and 35 hours a week, so he now has both the income to commute in the car, and the desire since the combination of long work hours and a full day of school make him not want to hang around for the extra couple of hours a day the bus takes.

[moxie]

"An active child is not the same as a child with ADHD...i've seen both and there IS a difference. A difference that a trained evaluator should be able to see."

Agreed. You go into any classroom the day after Halloween and I guarantee you that 100% of the students would be acting ADHD due to the sugar from all the candy the night before.

[Miss Tequila]

"In some cases, yeah, I absolutely think it happens. The parents coach the kids on exactly what to say during their evaluation to get them a label and extra help.

A lot of low income kids have horrible diets that are high in sugar, and kids are naturally pretty rambunctious anyway, so getting your younger child officially labeled as ADD/ADHD is probably pretty easy. "

I'm going to disagree wtih you and not because I have any hard data to back up my statement....but from what I have seen and lived, the parents who feed their kids absolute crap food don't really give a shit about those kids and certainly aren't going to jump through the hoops needed to get that child the services. you seem to think that all parents of special needs kids are fighters who want everything they can get for their children. I will be honest, I fight tooth and nail to get every service I can get from teh school for my dd...why, because she is my dd and I want her to maximize her potential.

I can tell you after 6 years spent in meetings with school officials, their remarks to me is that I am the exception rather than teh rule. FFS, I had a meeting wtih my dd's teacher last year complaining because we didn't get homework...he reason was "well, over the years I've noticed that the parents of the kids in my class never do what I send home"...these are not the parents that are going to be fighting for services or having their kids fake disabilties....unless of course that disability gets them money in their pocket, then I can see it.

[The Captain]

Miss Tequila - also want to be very clear that you are a strong advocate for your child and I REALLY respect that - that is your job as a parent and you do it very well!

However I am also a parent and an advocate for my daughter, who is neither special needs or a genius. Were it not for private school, she would likely be totally ignored by her teachers who don't have the time for all they are expected to do (not my words but the words of the public school teacher I know).

I don't have the answers. I personally believe it is not equitable to expect to use the largest amount of resources on the smallest segment of population, many of whom due to inherent limitations will never acheive the same level of function in society as the ones who receive little or no additional services.

[Sum Dum Gai]

An active child is not the same as a child with ADHD...i've seen both and there IS a difference. A difference that a trained evaluator should be able to see.

Should be and do aren't the same thing. They've done studies following low performing kids to charter schools with natural diets and found that somehow a decent portion of the kids officially labeled as ADD/ADHD were magically cured when sent for follow up evaluations. It's possible they really did have one of those disorders and outgrew it, or it's possible that letting a six year old drink a two liter of coke a day makes them bounce off the walls, and when you take that away they calm down.

[Miss Tequila]

thecaptain, we all need to be advocates...I also have a typical child...well, she is actually very bright and in the gifted program at our school...what I woudln't give to just average my two kids out!

But I do understand...and if I didn't have a special needs child I'm sure I would feel the same way. But I do have a special needs child and I will fight tooth and nail to get her the accomodations she needs. The only difference between you and me is htat I have federal law backing me up. That's not fair and it's not right but I use to it my advantage. Our old school district was not following my dd's IEP....I hired an advocate and went into the meeting wtih the Director of Special Ed, Principal and varios teachers, making it known that I am the parent who will file a law suit on my child's behalf. The next day things changed.

[moxie]

"I will be honest, I fight tooth and nail to get every service I can get from teh school for my dd...why, because she is my dd and I want her to maximize her potential."

*Good for you!

"Miss Tequila - also want to be very clear that you are a strong advocate for your child and I REALLY respect that - that is your job as a parent and you do it very well!"

*I SO agree!

I have had MANY parents not show up at Open House, not attend conferences for their children, not assist them with their homework and not even look at the daily notes in their backpacks! It's FRUSTRATING as a teacher...where is the SUPPORT?!? We aren't BABYSITTERS and we sure as heck aren't their PARENTS!! Geez...work with us!!

[Miss Tequila]

"It's possible they really did have one of those disorders and outgrew it, or it's possible that letting a six year old drink a two liter of coke a day makes them bounce off the walls, and when you take that away they calm down. "

I can't agree or disagree...my kids don't get soda!lol

[moxie]

"Our old school district was not following my dd's IEP....I hired an advocate and went into the meeting wtih the Director of Special Ed, Principal and varios teachers, making it known that I am the parent who will file a law suit on my child's behalf. The next day things changed."

I commend you.

[Miss Tequila]

Aww, thanks moxie! It's really a shame that more parents aren't involved....it's not the lack of funding that is the downfall in our schools...it's the lack of caring by the parents.

My 13 year old has turned into a bit of a handful this year...her one teacher called me at home and told me my dd was being disruptive during class...basically trying to be the class clown. I respect the teacher and her classroom and told her it would be taken care of. My dd was grounded from LIFE for one solid month and told that if I get a phone call like that again the grounding goes to three months. Do you know the teacher called me to thank me and told me that half the time when she makes a call like that the parents YELL at her! WTF??? That's what is wrong with our country

[Miss Tequila]

Eekk...damn you Dark for bringing up my name! I didn't mean to turn this thread into a thread about me or our situation!lol Just trying to give the other side of the "special ed kids suck up all of our resources"

[The Captain]

May 18, 2012 13:25:15 GMT -5 @moxie said:

"I will be honest, I fight tooth and nail to get every service I can get from teh school for my dd...why, because she is my dd and I want her to maximize her potential."

*Good for you!

"Miss Tequila - also want to be very clear that you are a strong advocate for your child and I REALLY respect that - that is your job as a parent and you do it very well!"

*I SO agree!

I have had MANY parents not show up at Open House, not attend conferences for their children, not assist them with their homework and not even look at the daily notes in their backpacks! It's FRUSTRATING as a teacher...where is the SUPPORT?!? We aren't BABYSITTERS and we sure as heck aren't their PARENTS!! Geez...work with us!!

Or you have parents like DH and I who check Teacherease every day and e-mail the teacher the minute DD's grades slip below a B to find out what's wrong with her work (but since we review the take home folder every night and check homework we usually know where she needs extra help). I don't think we are helicopter parents but have to wonder what the teacher thinks of us...

[zibazinski]

Until we change the law and I find that unlikely, a child born in the US is automatically a citizen. That being said, at age eighteen, they should be allowed to come here providing they are self supporting and can speak the language. The rest of them are not allowed to be here and should not be supported.

[Deleted]

below a B? Damn....

[Miss Tequila]

"Or you have parents like DH and I who check Teacherease every day and e-mail the teacher the minute DD's grades slip below a B to find out what's wrong with her work (but since we review the take home folder every night and check homework we usually know where she needs extra help). I don't think we are helicopter parents but have to wonder what the teacher thinks of us... "

Yep, we do the same thing with my oldest. We actually get a little pushback from her teachers because they don't have time to follow-up on certain things.

[moxie]

"Do you know the teacher called me to thank me and told me that half the time when she makes a call like that the parents YELL at her! WTF???"

^Well, of course...the standard parental response is "So, what are YOU/ the school planning on doing about it?" Talk about scapegoats!! (Not all parents are like this...but many)

[moxie]

A GOOD teacher/district wants the best for the student and really wants to work with the parent who CARES about their child's education. I had students who were more auditory learners than visual learners and I spent many hours outside of the classroom doing things like taping chapters in books and giving oral tests (in school) to accomodate those students.

[Deleted]

Sorry, but I don't think that is right and I sure as hell don't believe 17% of the population is special needs. Where were all these kids when I was in school, locked in the janitor's closet?

It's possible that the percentage is that high for a number of reasons. For one thing, they've gotten better at identifying special needs children. Years ago they would have just said, "Johnny is slow." He would have been tracked and probably would have dropped out at sixteen. Now Johnny must stay in school until he is eighteen or risk losing his driver's license.

Another reason that the percentage may be high is because parents of special needs students learn which systems do a better job at providing services. Then they move there. That skews the percentage.

And, yes, these kids were in the janitor's closet when you were in school, assuming this was before the first special education laws were enacted. Sometimes they were simply kept at home because they weren't educable. Now schools must educate all students regardless of their academic level or potential. If you think that's an unfair way to allocate resources (special education services can be really expensive), try shifting perspectives. If your child required an aide to take notes for him or her, would you really just smile and say, "Oh, that's ok. Spend the money on the "normal" kids"?

[moxie]

A regular ed teacher may cut the amount of questions/problems assigned for homework for those who struggle in a particular area. Every student learns at a different pace. Some need to be challenged (gifted) and others need things lightened up a bit. Teachers need to be flexible to be able to meet the needs of ALL their students.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Eekk...damn you Dark for bringing up my name! I didn't mean to turn this thread into a thread about me or our situation!lol Just trying to give the other side of the "special ed kids suck up all of our resources"

Sorry. That first post was more of a joke than actually calling you out, since we've gone back and forth on this issue so many times.

To get back to the larger questions. Our district is really hurting, and there's talk of a charter prep school wanting to come in. According to another really retarded California law, if a charter school wants to open in a specific area the local school district has to provide or build them a suitable campus at the district's expense. Whether they have room in the budget or not, just like special ed funding. My guess is the charter school will open in a couple years, and pull the vast majority of the higher performing kids out the district, which will leave them bringing in less money while having a larger percentage of their kids that are special needs, ESL, and the ones with dickwad parents and behavior issues.

That seems to be the trend in California anyway.

Oh, and building the charter school on the district's dime will probably be the straw that breaks the camels back and leads to us not meeting our financial benchmarks (something we're already dangerously close too) so the state will take over the district and they have the power to make even harsher cuts. Although, I'm not sure what's left. We've already closed the libraries, the computer labs, all sports and art programs, cancelled bussing, and for next year they're eliminating all GATE programs. Oh, and all the teachers took a pay/benefit cut, in addition to layoffs, our class sizes are up over 30 at the elementary level, the service workers who weren't laid off have taken a pay/benefit cut, several administrative positions were eliminated, and the ones that remain took a pay/benefit cut.

[moxie]

"Where were all these kids when I was in school, locked in the janitor's closet?"

^They were some of the ones being incorrectly labeled as "lazy" and "troublemakers." TRUTH!

[zibazinski]

That is the way most public schools are headed. Special needs, parents who don't care because it is free daycare, and those who can't speak English will be the new makeup of public schools. Everyone else will make other arrangements.

[Miss Tequila]

"To get back to the larger questions. Our district is really hurting, and there's talk of a charter prep school wanting to come in. According to another really retarded California law, if a charter school wants to open in a specific area the local school district has to provide or build them a suitable campus at the district's expense."

What? That is absolutely crazy! We have a few charter schools and they do suck the better performing children from the local schools and they do discourage the special needs children. The get the best of both worlds.

[moxie]

"Or you have parents like DH and I who check Teacherease every day and e-mail the teacher the minute DD's grades slip below a B to find out what's wrong with her work (but since we review the take home folder every night and check homework we usually know where she needs extra help). I don't think we are helicopter parents but have to wonder what the teacher thinks of us..."

We like parents like you. Most parents know what their own kids are capable of (grade wise)...some are A students, some are B students, and some are C students...it's more about the individual student working to the best of their abilities and putting forth their best effort.

[Sum Dum Gai]

What? That is absolutely crazy!

Tell me about it. I was completely shocked when Loop came back from the board meeting where they talked about it. I have no clue what the state legislature was thinking when they wrote that turd.

[Miss Tequila]

Dark, that is really over the top...our charter school suck funding out of the local schools but it is up to them to find their own buildings.

How close are you to a government takeover? The school I graduated from is in the same position....the tax base is low and just cannot keep up with expenses. They've cut all kinds of extracurricular activities and from what my husabnd just told me (he does contract work in the school) things like art, music and gym have been cut or significantly slashed.

[moxie]

"and those who can't speak English will be the new makeup of public schools"

Many students have good English skills, but their parents don't speak a word of it. Schools have to translate a lot of things (IEPs, field trip forms, other pertinent forms) for their parents to even understand or their child has to read it to them in their first language when they give it to them at home.

[Sum Dum Gai]

How close are you to a government takeover?

It would have happened this fall without the transportation cut. As it is, our operating budget is barely above the line, but our three year reserve fund thing is way, way, under where it needs to be. Without one of the bond measures, or an increase in state/fed funding, it's only a matter of time. Lots of school districts in the greater area here are in the exact same boat. They've all cut as much as they can, but they're running at a deficit every year and their reserve funds are running out. If there isn't a big turn around in the economy, or a funding increase at the state/fed level, California will start taking over a whole lot of really broke districts in the next couple years.

[Sum Dum Gai]

The charter school thing is really touchy too. Loop is on the school board, and we're both huge proponents of public education. With all the local cuts though, and especially with GATE finally getting the axe, we'll probably be one of those hoity toity douchebag families that sign our kids up for the charter prep school, and leave the district worse off than it is now. It sucks, but we've got to do what we've got to do to get our daughters the best education we can.

[Miss Tequila]

"It sucks, but we've got to do what we've got to do to get our daughters the best education we can. "

obviously, I don't blame you...our job as parents it to do what is best for OUR kids...I sent my oldest to a charter school for 2 years and only changed schools when I realized it was no longer a good fit for her.