What would you do to help?

[simser]

I got a phone call from my mother today. She started with "well I have something to tell you and it's not good." This is usually a life or death situation in my life- she's not overly dramatic.

So my best friend from childhood was released from jail today. I had no idea she was in jail, and she was in jail for her 3rd dui. I hadn't heard about any of them. This is actually normal in our relationship. There was always a fair amount of competition from her towards me (as in her parents always asked when she would be like me). I knew she was having problems in her life- when I saw her at Thanksgiving she was telling me about how stressed she was. She graduated from law school but can't pass the bar (it's been 4 years), and is feeling a lot of pressure to get married and have babies. It's the South, what can I say?

I went through crap in the last couple years- including an abusive marriage- but right now I have everything that she was stressed about. I've been married, I have a great job and a PhD. I'll also say that this is really unusual for where we grew up. Knowing her she is really embarassed. My mother was only the 5th person that knew about this (I'm the 6th and my mom requested permission to tell me). So we are close even if it doesn't sound like it.

So I love her- she was the maid of honor at my wedding- and I'm just really worried about her. I think that she's crying out for help, and I want to help. I have no idea how to help though. I don't want to rub how good my life is in her face, so I don't know if I should back off. I don't know if I should email or call or when. She's staying with her parents right now and I know that's tough on her. She could come out here (even though I'm 2500 miles away) since I have a spare room and money to support a second person, but I assume she probably can't leave the state yet. I don't want to judge- I just want to love... And I'm not quite sure how to do that... Any suggestions?

[resolution]

I would probably call her up and offer her a place to stay for an extended visit. It would get her out of town and give her a chance to get her thoughts together and decide what she wants to do with herself. You also might want to have a heart to heart about your marriage if she is considering that better than being single.

[Opti]

I think you should talk to her first before deciding what help to offer. I do think you should call her and find out why she is drinking and driving. Is it the pressure to marry and have kids or is it more than that?

If you want to let her come and visit to clear her head that's great, but talk to her first.

[lurkyloo]

I'd call. I'd keep it light (weather, season finale of Grey's Anatomy, that sort of thing) and I wouldn't volunteer too many details about your life, particularly not in a bragging kind of way. But if she specifically asks how you're doing, I might talk about how tough it was to realize you'd wound up in an abusive marriage and how you're fighting your way back. I think that makes the point both that your life isn't perfect either, but it's possible to start from a low point and build your life back up.

I don't think I'd start in on the "wanna move in with me?" right off, but if she seems stressed or gives you an opening, you might ask if she'd like to come out for a visit and to clear her head.

Good luck, to both of you.

ETA: Speaking of clearing heads...either I need to get out of Optimist's or vice versa!

[Deleted]

I would not offer her to come and stay with you unless you intend to be a rehab facility (and if you are qualified to do that). Running away from your 3rd DUI isn't reality or dealing with it. Sorry, I don't feel the "it'll all be all-right" approach works when it's your 3rd strike. And lets be clear, she was caught 3 times, but how many times did she actually drive drunk?

I would call and ask her what help she needs to deal with her drinking problem. I would commit to physically help her get to a facility if she was willing to go into a program. I would send a check to the facility if she is short on money to pay for it (don't give her the money).

3rd DUI sure isn't a "awww, poor baby" kind of situation. It's a kick her in the rear to do something about it situation.

[Deleted]

Loving your friend is about loving your friend. And, in my opinion, a true friend is walking in when the rest of the world is walking out. For whatever reason, she has personal, mental, spiritual or emotional problems which led to addiction issues. People don't "choose" to be addicted. They are usually seeking some sort of relief for whatever personal agony they are going through. Yes, people shouldn't seek that through a bottle but for some it seems like the only option. The next thing you know, they have lost control over this and it takes over who they are. People can inject all kinds of morality into this and in the beginning, they are making a bad choice to turn to that for comfort, but it eventually becomes a compulsion beyond their control.
So, yes, go love your friend. Call her. As deziloo said, keep it light, rebuild your relationship. She may not even want to talk about it for awhile. The best help you can give her is let her know that somebody still cares about her. And, just go from there.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I would probably not offer her a place to live. With 3 DUIs, IMO she has surpassed the 'whoops, I misjudged how much I drank ' category and moved into the category where she possibly has problems with addiction.

IMO, you need to think long and hard as to whether you can handle this. Until she understands this, then it doesn't matter where she lives. She is just running from her problems, not confronting them.

[NancysSummerSip]

I agree with mich on this, and I am looking at it from a law enforcement point of view. Three DUIs isn't a cry for help. It's a scream. Or a capitulation. That's not about party-hardy lifestyle anymore. That's about possible drink to annihlation. If she lives with you, count on possible theft, drugs, alcohol, property damage and more under your roof.

It's good to be a friend, and you sound like a good friend. But you have to draw the line between friend and enabler. And it's not easy. What starts out as heartfelt and sincere gestures of friendship can lead someone right down the busted-bottle pathway to hell.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I agree with Mich and Nancy. You can't rescue someone from themselves. All you can do is let her know you are there when she is ready to get some help.

You are setting yourself up to become her latest enabler if you allow her to move in with you and support her.

She has to help herself before anyone else can help her. You can offer to come down to visit or have her vist, but don't put yourself into the position of becoming her half way house.

I got a friend who is in and out of rehab. I love him but I can't solve his problems. There is no way in HELL I'd let him live with me because I know he hasn't cleaned up his act. He belongs in a long term rehab, not my house. I am not equipped with the tools needed to handle a situation like that.

All I can do is let him know I am rooting for him as he continues to try to get sober.

[Green Eyed Lady]

The best thing you can do for your friend is to convince her that she needs outside help to deal with her addiction. You may have to be harsh. Next time she does this, she could kill herself or, even worse, kill someone else. Obviously, this isn't something she can kick on her own. If you can convince her to get herself into a rehabilitation program and she successfully completes it, then maybe you can offer her a place to stay while she gets on her feet. But right now? I'm with those who are saying that a person with these issues belongs in treatment - not in your home.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

You can't convince someone they need treatment, they have to come to that conclusion themselves. That's why you see so many people on Intervention relapse. They didn't go because they wanted to, they went because they were strong armed into it.

You can express your concerns and suggest she seek professional help, but she won't go unless she personally sees that she has a problem.

There is a reason that Step 1 is: admitting you have a problem.

I would be surprised if she didn't already have to attend court ordered Al-anon meetings.

[Firebird]

Running away from your 3rd DUI isn't reality or dealing with it. Sorry, I don't feel the "it'll all be all-right" approach works when it's your 3rd strike. And lets be clear, she was caught 3 times, but how many times did she actually drive drunk?



Sorry, but I'm with Rock It on this one. A third DUI indicates some major psychological issues that must be addressed if she's going to live a healthy life.

I've heard from a couple different lawyers that sometimes people do get ONE DUI. They get scared straight and learn their lesson and move on, but if a person ever gets a second DUI, it's a very good bet that they'll get another one after that, and maybe another one after that, because there's a deeper issue there that is not being dealt with and the deterrent effect of jail, rehab, fines, revoked license, public scorn, risk of killing people, etc. isn't enough to curb it.

I know you feel for your friend and I would too, but be very careful about the position in which you put yourself. It's very easy to go from supportive buddy to enabler in this sort of situation. I've seen it happen.

That being said, I might actually start up an email or even letter dialogue with her. Give her a chance to vent in writing. Sometimes sharing frustrations, fears, and confessions through the written word is a lot easier than sharing them with even the most sympathetic listener. The outlet might help her very much.

Depending on how long she's been in jail, you might also gift her with Target or Wal*Mart gift cards (depending on which is closer to her) so that she can provide herself with basics while she's getting back on her feet and in case she can't find a job right away. I wouldn't send cash.

[Green Eyed Lady]

It isn't a case of strongarming anyone, Drama. It's a case of laying out the consequences so she can see them clearly. I don't know how much experience you have with this, but I have more than my share. You can help to convince someone that it's their time. When a person is waist deep in addiction, they don't see clearly and if she waits until she is "ready", someone might die. It's a case of laying out the consequences of her continued abuse, i.e.: possibly killing someone or herself, the long-term health issues, probable prison time for another offense, the expense of paying her fines and costs, the inability to pass her exams, etc. It's also important to outline to a person the benefits of seeking treatment and point out the goals she already has in mind but isn't able to accomplish because of her addiction. Such as a clearer head so that she can attain her goals by passing her bar exams, a living arrangement option when she successfully completes treatment, more of a possibility of meeting a good person since she wants a marriage and children. It's not a case of force, but a case of positive reinforcement. If those she loves and respects contine to say nothing, that's just what she'll do about her addiction. Nothing.

[Catseye]

She's on her 3rd DUI? Oh, no, she's an alcoholic. She needs AA, rehab, some kind of professional help, the kind you're not qualified to give her. Please, whatever you do, don't let her move in with you. Okay, that's my 2 cents worth.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I wouldn't let a newly minted sober person live in my house either. It isn't as simple as they go to rehab, get clean and then they are done. It's a lifetime process to stay on the wagon. My DH has been sober for 10 years and fell off the wagon last year.

He quickly got back on but it was hell to deal with. We are married, I knew he was a recovering addict when we got married. I'm in it for the long haul.

Unless you are prepared to ride the roller coaster that can come with recovering addiction don't invite one into your home. If you DO I strongly suggest attending Al-anon meetings yourself so you have the tools to avoid becoming an enabler and how to deal with potential relapse.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Green eye we'll have to agree to disagree. I was told in counseling you can't make someone or convince someone to go into rehab.

You can say your piece but it has to be on the shoulders of the addict to see they need help otherwise it isn't going to work.

DH's siblings talked to him till they were blue in the face but he told me until he was ready to accept he did not have control of the situation anymore, it went in one ear and out the other.

Does he appreciate the effort? Sure. He also is very sorry he caused them so much hurt.

BUt they could not convince him to go or make him go. He only got clean when he was ready to accept it was a problem.

I am sure all addicts are different, but I would not go into a discussion with one thinking I could get them to agree they need treatment. It only leads to a shitstorm of guilt and anger when they don't.

I'd say my piece and then leave the ball in their court. Call me cold hearted but I've spent too much time in my life tryin to save others from themselves. I'm spending my time now helping those that help themselves.

[Green Eyed Lady]

I dont' think we really disagree at all, Drama. It was a case of semantics. I probably shouldn't have used the word "convince" but should have picked a different word.

[Miss Tequila]

Oh hell no would I let an alcoholic move into my home...make no mistake, people that are not alcoholics are not habitual DUI offenders...how long since you have spoken to her? My bff's fiance is an alcoholic and I have had several, blunt conversations with him. At the end of the day, only the alcoholic can make the decision to get help.

Good luck!

[Firebird]

Also, I don't know what the public transportation system is like in her town but if it's appropriate and you think it would help her out, you could buy her a monthly bus pass or metro card. You could even buy her a bike if you're feeling charitable and you think that would be better suited to wherever she lives (although FYI, you can also get a DUI for riding a bike drunk - still poses a danger to yourself and others, particularly at night).

Tons of people with DUI convictions and revoked or suspended licenses drive anyway. You face heavy penalties if caught but remember, THIRD DUI means that she's got serious problems and the heavy penalties so far haven't been enough to stop her from continuing to drive drunk. So this might be one small way you can gently encourage her to at least stop driving.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I probably shouldn't have used the word "convince" but should have picked a different word.

Fair enough.

I said my piece to my friend years ago because I saw where he was headed. I honestly didn't do it for him though, I did it so I could close that chapter of my life and start moving on.

As far as I can tell he never did take my advice. I am glad he did finally attempt to get help but before a couple of months ago the last time we had spoken was over four years ago.

From what I gleaned he's been in a continous downward spiral since high school. Which doesn't surprise me at all.

Simser should say her piece if it would make HER feel better but don't go into it thinking that it will make a difference.

You can hope that someday the seed might germinate, but I wouldn't hold my breathe. I defintely would not count on them ever thanking me for it.

[Deleted]

May 16, 2012 11:07:40 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

My bff's fiance is an alcoholic and I have had several, blunt conversations with him over some Cosmos.

Tina, maybe THAT'S the problem.

[Miss Tequila]

WTF? Just cuz he can't drink doesn't mean I shouldn't drink...boy needs to get some willpower

[mmhmm]

I think I might drop your friend a quick email asking how she's doing and letting her know you care. Sometimes, it's easier for a person who's having difficulties to answer an email than it is to talk directly to someone on the telephone. Once she's answered the email, you should be able to get a better grasp on where she is in her head at this time. Is she in denial? Is she asking for help? Has she recognized the problem is within her and she's going to have to take responsibility for it and start working toward a solution? Once you know where she's coming from, it's easier to decide what you might be able to do to help, if help is wanted.

You're a good friend, quite obviously. You've had difficulties of your own, so you know life is no picnic. Your friend will let you know what she's willing to do, and accept. Just keep it simple at first, and keep yourself at arm's length until you know a little more about the situation. Bringing her into your home at this point could be the worst decision you could make. She really does need a friend, but she really doesn't need an enabler.

Hugs, hon, and good luck!

[Deleted]

LOL!



but seriously, I agree with those who suggested helping from afar.

[973beachbum]

Even if the OP's friend did pass the bar would they admit someone with 3 DWI convictions?

I have to go with Tina on this one, hell no is she living with me!

I like an occaisional glass of wine, but 3 DWI's shows her relationship with the bottle is way more than casual!

[Firebird]

I think the way she responds to your initial contact will tell you a lot. Is she still avoiding responsibility for her situation? Does she talk about how the cop was a jerk and she got a raw deal and it's not fair, or does she step up and admit that she totally screwed up (even if she's not sure what to say after that)?

There are different levels of help you can give people. If my BFF was in this situation, how she was reacting to it would definitely play a huge role in how much help I gave her, and what kind.

[Peace Of Mind]

I agree that your friend sounds like an alcoholic and I would not let her move in with me. You can reach out by phone and be a friend without actually getting involved. A friend of a friend I used to know did that. We all knew the person was a major alcoholic but the lady wanting to help had been convinced that the alcoholic friend was the victim and everybody was mean and it wasn't her fault, etc. So this person loaned her money to save her business and moved to Florida to help her out. I gave it a week. She lasted two.

She was absolutely amazed at how bad it really was. I don't know how bad your friend is but I will tell you this person's situation. She drank until she vomited blood. Let the dog crap all over the apartment, hung out at bars and took strange men home, left dishes in the sink and the trash rotting for days... and one day the one wanting to help came home to find her drunk, naked, huddled in her closet. This was clearly a person with mental issues, but I'm just telling you what you may encounter in a worse case situation and I'm not saying your friend is anything like this. The lady trying to help this person realized she had fallen for her victim version of life (many alcoholics feel they are the victim and don't take responsibility for their own lives and behavior) and ran screaming. She finally had to take legal action to get the money she loaned her back. That took ten years before it was paid back.

[Firebird]

Good lord POM. That's quite a story. I totally believe it though.

[Peace Of Mind]

I will have to PM you the clincher of that story and what she did for a living.

[Firebird]

Yes please