Nature vs nurture

[Deleted]

What will win when it comes to finances?

My brother is 10 and my sister is turning 9 next month and when it comes to money they are total opposite, personality wise they are total opposite also lol.

Anyway since thanksgiving I've made an agreement with them, for every dollar they save, I will match it.

I stayed at my mothers this past weekend and my sister had saved so far $132 and my brother $0. When I asked my brother why he did not save any money, he claimed that he have needs/wants so he spend all his money.

While that same evening my mom asked my sister if she could give her some money she declared: mommy you already owe me $75 and remember that this is savings, money goes in... Money doesn't come out.

Same parents, same upbringing... My brother will spend every penny he has and then some while my sister would rather go without before spending her own money.

Also, at what age you think you should start teaching them about finances? So far I've only talked to them about saving for what they need, not to spend all their money etc.

So as of Saturday my sister had ~$269 (her savings and my match) in her account and my brother had ~$5 (his birthday was in Feb so he could have save that but spent it all).

[Deleted]

One thing about kids' saving is that they will quickly differentiate between "your" (or their mom's) money and theirs. My kids wouldn't spend any of theirs if they could help it, but they were good on guilting me into spending mine. ("I would stay at home instead of going to the movies, whatever, with you, but you won't let me. So you have to pay for that and concessions.")

It is nice that you are matching, but don't automatically be in favor of the saver. She may be playing the guilt game, and your brother may find it silly (which is why he admits he has needs/wants so he spends all his money). She may be arguing her needs, and he may simply be paying for them.

My kids had the same upbringing. My daughter was much more manipulative in the sweetest sort of way. My son was more straight forward about the same issue. It isn't really a gender issue although it sounds like it is. Just be aware that it isn't as simplistic as you think.

(And welcome back!)

[busymom]

As a parent, I think kids are a combination of nature AND nurture. Yes, you try & teach them, but their internal "wiring" is what makes them, for example, hard-working or laid back.

Kudos to you for trying to teach your younger siblings about money. (And, sorry to hear your Mom is borrowing from the most responsible child.) Even in a pinch, I've never borrowed more than $10 to $20 from my kids, and it was always paid back the following payday. (When you have school-age kids, you often get last-minute requests for field trip money, etc. from their school.) Be sure the account your sister has her money in CANNOT be accessed by your Mom. If that money disappears after she's put in such a good effort to save, it might kill her initiative to keep saving. Looks like she's gonna take after you, Carl... ;D

[Deleted]

Kids have different personalities and styles. And, i think 9 or 10 is a bit young to really grasp thinking further ahead. Yes, you can teach them and some kids will grasp it and some won't. But, they have a long time to learn. I would make it more of fun thing. My one son is a spender and the other a saver. I had to allow my spender son to make dumb decisions with his money. Let him buy and waste it on something he didnt really want all that much and then he would find he didn't have money while my other son always has a wad of cash. They have to have time to make those mistakes and learn as well.

[giramomma]

For me, nurture made a bigger impact than nature.

But, I do think it's a combination of the two, rather than one or the other.

I think teaching kids about money depends on the kid. My oldest is now 8, and we started teaching about money from age 4. But, he's an old soul. I am quite able to have adult conversations with him because that's how he is. I asked for one of those piggybanks that's divided into save/spend/charity compartments as a Christmas gift for him one year. By 5, he was making small purchases and understood the concept of a tax.

I don't remember when we started a small allowance. (Either 5 or 6). It's not tied to chores, but the rule was that a quarter must be saved. I know it's not alot, but, to me, the actual habit of saving is more important than how much is saved.

At age almost 8, my son was donating to charities (through school) with his own spending money (not his charity portion of his allowance). He didn't even tell us until after he did it. I'm very proud of that, considering he later told us that other parents were just handing their kids $20 to donate.

We talk about how I choose to spend our money all.the.time. We were at Goodwill the other day, looking at clothes for my other two kids. I snagged some nice Land's End clothing that didn't look worn at all for my middle kid. DS started to get antsy. So I said, "Hey, I know this is boring. But, me being able to save on clothing for all you kids allowed you to go your camp that was a splurge this summer."

The kids also go to private school and are exposed to families who do have a ton of money. We talk about the choices they make with their money and the choices they make with ours.

DS also knows he needs to get some sort of schooling beyond high school. He also knows I work hard to earn what we have. We also will talk about how long it takes me to earn the money to go to the movies, go on vacation, or what have you.

He understands the difference between when we get to splurge and when it's time to reign in the spending. We haven't talked investments yet. He has a taxable account because of his grandparents. We haven't told him about that yet. But, he does know he has a savings account and that we are saving for schooling beyond high school.

Now my middle child is 4, and could care less about learning about money. So, we are working on simple coin identification. She's not as interested in money.

ETA: It's also good to see you back.

[Deleted]

I really think nature wins out more than nuture. Nature is who you are. Nuture helps make you a better Who but doesn't change that. I am simply amazed at my kids' different dispositions and personalities and no amount of nuture on my part is going to change their basic nature. Doesn't mean i don't think that is important because of course, coming from a loving, supportive home is extremely important.

[quotequeen]

I think people just react differently to the exact same lesson. Some people internalize it, some people become obsessive about it, and some people rebel against it. My mom generally believed in buying the cheapest version of everything (though if she thought it was a good price she would buy 10 so she didn't actually save money). I generally said fine and took what she was willing to buy me (clothes, shoes, etc.). My brother became the type of person who thinks more expensive is always better. He spent all his money on stuff he wanted. I saved mine. As adults he has borrowed money from mom and I have lent money to her.

[Deleted]

My sister and I were complete opposites regarding money growing up. My mom always tells the story about 2 schools trips we went on. We each got a certain amount of money to go on the trips. I cam back owing my friends money. My sister came back with more money than she left with because the school gave a small meal allowance and she said she didn't need to us it all.

Fast forward to when we both started working. I became a friggen cheap ass and my sister became a spender.


So, who knows.

[Deleted]

Carl, I hope you talk to your sister about the perils of "lending" to friends and family. Is there any way you can keep the money for her (maybe put it in a bank account with both of you as signatories) so Mom can't get her alone and guilt-trip her into handing over money?

My 5 siblings and I are all savers. Each of us would probably disagree with the others' discretionary spending; I've got no use for fancy cars, for example. DH and I have the biggest travel budget but have only one car. My parents were very good examples when it came to saving and spending, though, and I think all of us appreciated growing up in a house where the bills were paid and there was a little left over for fun.

DS is downright cheap. His father was a spendthroft who paid whatever it took to keep up appearances no matter how much you had to put on the credit cards. I'm very glad he's more like me. He was here over the weekend and his big splurge was $60 on disc golf discs.

[Deleted]

I can teach my kids about money but i don't think there is only one correct way to live and handle money. Some people are spenders, generous, dive in with both feet, try new things, take chances. Some people are analytic, more reserved, study the situation, save more for a rainy day. I have one son who i call a "fall on the grenade" type of guy. He acts more on instinct, is more impulsive, quicker to jump in. I have another son who is extremely precise, orderly , analytical, step back and study the situation before making a decision. We need all kinds of people with different approaches. But, yes, i do caution my spender son that money comes and goes and to think about the future. I also caution my younger saver son to not save everything and also live for today as well. Find that balance that works for them.

[Deleted]

One drawback i find about some financial types is they tend to rain on other's parades. If someone is happy and joyous about buying something they enjoy, instead of being met with cheer, it is often met with a "you don't need that", "what a waste of money", "I wouldn't spend my money on that", yada, yada. I am sure i have done my share of that and realized that wasn't right either and you can celebrate other's happiness even if it isn't your cup of tea.

[Deleted]

May 15, 2012 8:20:38 GMT -5 @shooby said:

One drawback i find about some financial types is they tend to rain on other's parades. If someone is happy and joyous about buying something they enjoy, instead of being met with cheer, it is often met with a "you don't need that", "what a waste of money", "I wouldn't spend my money on that", yada, yada.

My mother would do that when we were kids. I know she didn't like to see us spending our allowances on cheap stuff that would fall apart, but she could be a real downer sometimes. And what better time in your life to learn that you get what you pay for?

Another data point in favor of "nature"- my Ex was a spendthrift, as I mentioned. His sister is an interesting combination of risk-taking and conservatism. she and her husband are winding down a multi-million dollar business. When they were starting to feel prosperous, I think they did everything but max out their credit cards to buy a house on the beach in Mantoloking, NJ. They've since paid off the mortgage (early) and gutted and remodeled it and I'm sure it's worth multiples of what they paid. Later, they bought a floor-through in Manhattan that had all kinds of nasty legal entanglements including IRS liens. They were patient and got it at a great price. They seem to do something gutsy (but smart), then pull back and behave conservatively, then make another gutsy move. It's worked very well for them. My Ex used to seethe with jealousy that he couldn't have all that- but he didn't have the discipline.

[raeoflyte]

My parents borrowed money from me a lot growing up, because I had it in cash in the house. They always paid it back, (and I know some parents don't), but I wouldn't immediately assume that the mom borrowing money is a huge problem.

I love the match idea.

I think ds has already figured out that aunties and uncles will buy him more stuff than mom and dad. It will be fun trying to put the brakes on that as he gets older.

[Formerly SK]

I'm struggling with this a bit. We haven't taught our kids (7yo and almost 6yo) about money yet because they don't appear to have an interest in buying stuff. They rarely go to stores, but when they do they NEVER ask me to buy things. They don't watch much TV (and no commercials) so they aren't exposed to marketing. Normally I'd be happy, but it does seem weird. DD's bday is in a few weeks and we are having the same problem we've had for the past few bdays/xmas: they can't come up with a list of presents they want for their bday. Like they can't even list one thing that they want.

They have toys, and they do sometimes play with them. But they do A LOT of art and even more dressup & role-playing type play. They appear very happy and fulfilled.

But everyone I know is teaching their kids about money/shopping/allowances etc. I feel like my kids are behind developmentally, but on the other hand why would I want to go expose them to a bunch of crap at stores so I can then give them an allowance and teach them about savings and wants vs needs? It's like if your kids never had sugar, but you started feeding them sugar on purpose just so you could teach them the concept of healthy vs unhealthy eating.

I dunno...I admit I'm a bit perplexed at the situation.

[Deleted]

May 15, 2012 9:37:56 GMT -5 Formerly SK said:

DD's bday is in a few weeks and we are having the same problem we've had for the past few bdays/xmas: they can't come up with a list of presents they want for their bday. Like they can't even list one thing that they want.

DS is like that and he's 27! I've given up on buying him things, and focused on experiences. When my Dad turned 80, we paid DS' airfare and hotel so he could join the family. He's joining us to cheer on his cousin at the Olympic Swim trials in Omaha (3-hour drive for each of us, from different cities) and we're paying for his hotel. He'll be in NYC for another cousin's wedding next month- we forked over Hilton points so he could stay in a decent hotel without spending $350/night. DS is supporting himself quite well and his only extravagance that I can see is the discs he needs to play disc golf!

Are there experiences your kids might like for a birthday or Christmas? A favorite restaurant or a day trip someplace they want to see?

[Wisconsin Beth]

We took our 4 year old DD to the bank on Sat. to deposit her b-day check. I tried, sort of, to explain that the bank is a bigger piggy bank and we could put her piggy bank money in the big bank. She wanted to put her big bank money in the piggy bank. ;D We've started doing coin recognition. And during Lent we did Operation Rice Bowl, which is what really started her on money, we talked a little about how the money was going to help other people out.

She does ask for stuff at the stores and I usually tell her no. Sometimes I tell her it's not in the budget or on the list. Sometimes I cave.

[justme]

I think nuture can temper your nature, but doesn't necessarily win out. My brother was a spender and I'm a saver. When he was around 20 he had to go into debt consolodation to pay off around $15k in debt he racked up. He finished a couple years ago and the only debt he's had since then is medical related. I think the save part from my parents kicked in and is keeping him from running up that debt again, but I have a lot more in savings than he does. Though nature wins out still. He spent a lot of money on gadgets after his wife left him to cheer himself up, he now has to borrow money from his 401k to pay for a lawyer to get rid of her crazy ass. (Waiting to save up the money would expose him to the crazy for a lot longer.) The money he spent on the gadgets would have paid for the lawyer. Meanwhile the expensive gadget I recently bought was a good 4+ years in the making and even then it sucked to take the money out of savings.

[cronewitch]

I think it has to do with scarcity and how you feel about it. When I was young a candy bar was a nickle but a nickle was a lot of money. If we each had a nickle to spend we would each make different choices. I liked to get something that would last a long time like a Sugar Daddy or sunflower seeds. A chocolate bar would have been gone in a minute but my treat lasted for hours.

My brother got a paper route so had a fortune in spending money at 11. I remember seeing him spend 8 cents on an Apple and thinking I wouldn't waste my money on a food our parents would buy us. He spent his life with money running through his hands with none sticking. When his wife was about to give birth to first child he didn't have anything for the baby not even diapers. Mom got yards of fabric and sewed diapers for the baby and bought them a crib but he and his wife didn't do anything to prepare for the baby. He just didn't worry about the future at all and still doesn't. He is 65 now and has a Air Force pension and about 20K in savings but just married again to a woman who has a house and business, 4th wife, 6th wedding since he married two twice.

[alabamagal]

I have two boys, now 17 and 19, and they are TOTAL opposites in everything they do. They don't even look much alike. One is a spender and one is a saver. While I think the saver is better in the long run, I sometimes have to work with him to understand that he needs to spend money on some things.

When the boys were younger and both living at home full time, the younger one (spender) would always spend all his money on video games, which I was fine with at his age. But we share our family video game console and games, and the older boy (saver) would never buy games, yet he would enjoy his brothers games. It's not like the games get more worn out, but I told my saver that he was taking advantage of his brother. He might have bought one game (probably used!).

The younger one starts college in the fall, and we will definitely have to work on budgeting his money.