Student loans and SAHP-ing

[midjd]

A point was raised in Cawaiu's thread that probably deserves a thread of its own. Several people posted that no one should even CONSIDER being a SAHP as long as they have six figures in SL debt.

I thought it was an interesting point - I have no interest in being a SAHM, but I never would have thought that DH would actively forbid me from it. When I got home, I asked him if he'd be OK with me being a stay-at-home mom if I wanted to. He said, "Uh, if you thought we could afford it, sure." No mention of my student loans. (The income-based repayment plan probably helps).

Then I thought about it some more, and if the tables were turned, I don't think I'd agree for DH to be a SAHD if the student loans were his instead of mine. I'm a hypocrite.

So what's your view on SAHPs who have large student loans? Are they burdening the working spouse? Is it their obligation to pay off those loans themselves? Or, as long as both spouses agree to it, it's no big deal? Does it depend on the loan repayment terms? (E.g. what if someone's parent pays off the SL and the debt is then owed to the parent?)

(I'm not starting this thread to bash Carl or his wife at all. It just seems like there are some strong opinions on the subject, but I don't really have one, and apparently neither does DH )

[Sum Dum Gai]

So what's your view on SAHPs who have large student loans?

Not a fan.

Are they burdening the working spouse?

Yes.

Is it their obligation to pay off those loans themselves?

Yes.

Or, as long as both spouses agree to it, it's no big deal?

Yes.

Does it depend on the loan repayment terms? (E.g. what if someone's parent pays off the SL and the debt is then owed to the parent?)

Not really.

[InsertCoolName]

Most of the things YM-er's see as burning in hell and they will be the ones pulling the trigger on don't seem like a big deal to me.

This is another on that list.

If it works for X household, then what does it matter to anyone else?

[Works4me]

I just can't see how it is possible to pay for the necessary living expenses of housing, transportation, food, clothing, basic emergency savings, etc for a family of three or four on one normal income while also paying on student loans of that size.

[wvugurl26]

I think it depends on the couple. What's their income? Does one spouse make a lot more than the other? Is it something they both want and are willing to make sacrifices for? I think it is a large debt load to put on one person's income.

And there's the fact if she keeps working for the ten years total in public health or something in public service the remaining federal loans go bye bye. She'd be throwing that away by being a SAHM.

No matter what the debt's from (student loans or something else), I think anyone should think long and hard about cutting their income in half and adding kid expenses to the mix when your non mortgage debt is over six figures.

I wouldn't be comfortable with that. Then again I don't know that I'd ever feel comfortable being a SAHM.

[justme]

If the one person's income is enough that the loan payment isn't significant, then it wouldn't bother me. But, if we go with the median household income, a few hundred dollars payment on top of everything else seems like a huge burden to put on one spouse. If both agree to it fine, but I think a serious discussion of what will happen if sacrificing isn't enough and they need more income.

[Works4me]

Figures sited for $100k student loans were from $650 to over $1000 per month,

[wvugurl26]

I think he said it was $600/month under income based and was $1000/month under standard. The deal with income based is as long as she stays in a public service job for 10 years, the balance of her federal loans are forgiven. I'm assuming with $100k in loans she has some private ones in the mix.

[Deleted]

I'm not married and I don't think being a SAHP is something that would ever appeal to me (I've always pictured a SAHD), so I don't really have a leg to stand on in this conversation. But that's never stopped me before...

I am in the same field as Carl's wife and I took on about $75k in loans for my education. But I have always felt a very personal obligation to pay that off myself. Which is probably why I am using anti-YM methods to pay them off sooner rather than later. And I intend to use the education they helped me obtain. I may not get quite the same ROI as if I had earned an MBA, but I do believe I will be better off financially in the long run.

But I started signing for those loans when I was 17. I don't think there is anything else about my life when I was 17 that I would ask some man I may meet at 34 to shoulder. Why would my loans be different?

If a couple makes a decision to borrow for one partner's education, that may be more of a shared obligation mentality. And maybe if someone had some sort of sensible amount of debt - say $10k or less for a bachelor's degree, then maybe a hiatus from the workforce wouldn't be quite such a big deal. But when you sign on for the big debt... I think you have to have plans for a big career.

[Phoenix84]

"So what's your view on SAHPs who have large student loans? Are they burdening the working spouse? Is it their obligation to pay off those loans themselves? Or, as long as both spouses agree to it, it's no big deal? Does it depend on the loan repayment terms? (E.g. what if someone's parent pays off the SL and the debt is then owed to the parent?)"

Well, people can do and agree to what works for them and theirs, but personally I can't fathom why someone would agree to take on major student loan debt for their spouse while the spouse is not working. To me, they should have their heads examined.

But I can see agreeing to it if the debt is somewhat reasonable, like less than 10k. Or if the working spouse is making big bucks.

"Are they burdening the working spouse?"

I think so, but in the end that's up to the spouse to decide for themselves.

"Is it their obligation to pay off those loans themselves?"

Again, I think so, but others may disagree, it's ultimately up to the couple to decide that.

"Does it depend on the loan repayment terms?"

to me, debt is debt. I don't consider debt to family any any less than debt to a CC company.

[whoisjohngalt]

OK, my opinion on this is purely hypothetical...

1. I never had SLs myself
2. My DH had about $100K of them when we got married
3. He wanted me to be SAHM

So, before having kids we paid off about 80% of SL bc paying $300/ mo in interest alone was making ME sick.

Now, I haven't worked for 4 yrs and if I knew than what I know now about being SAHP, I would have been OK with my DH being SAHP despite his loans, AS LONG as we could afford it.

But in my mind, before the ink on that marriage contract dried up, all our monies, including debt, were ours.

Does it make sense?
Lena

[whoisjohngalt]

Oh, and before I quit working, I "suggested' to my DH that I would like for him to make-up my salary, and I wasn't making min wage. He is almost there

Lena

[Works4me]

Lena - great plan and great work!

[wvugurl26]

I see where some have the our debt view but in your case Lena you guys paid off almost all of those loans before you became a SAHM. I think thats a big difference in your situations. You also said before you got married that you wouldn't work full time after kids. And you took steps to make that feasible/easier by paying off debt.

Caiwau's been getting raises/promotions every year or so. He is increasing his income. He doesn't want the pressure of supporting a family on his income alone. He is allowed to have that opinion.

He puts away more than I do for retirement but my current gross is $52k. I support just myself on that salary there is no way in hell I'd feel comfortable supporting 2 more people on that salary especially one with expensive tastes like his wife's.

[whoisjohngalt]

IT.

I was an accountant and by the time I stopped working in '08 I was making almost 6 figures. But I am not as young as I look - I was working for many many years - MANY years LOL

And Phil would be proud - the last $20K of SL is at 2.5% so we are not paying it off until we have to

Oh and the whole SAHM thing - I lasted about a year before I started Grad school and hopefully will be able to start some kind of consulting business. I am way too paranoid to live on one income.

Lena

[whoisjohngalt]

I get the whole - people change, priorities change thing, but "I" would feel WAY WAY WAY too guilty to have $100K in loans and not work. And I am married to a guy who really truly believes that there is no such thing as "his" money, it's all ours. But to ME - it doesn't matter. The ONLY reason I went to school is to be able to support myself no matter what (let's face it - no one gets degree in accounting bc they are passionate about it) and if I'd spend THAT much money on getting that degree - I would work until the last dime was paid off

Lena

ETA: lucky for me I went to school last century, when I was able to work and pay as I went. That, and being new in US, I didn't know much about SL LOL

[wvugurl26]

I sooo wish my loans were that low. Mine are 6.8%. My damn car loan's got a lower rate! I'll get there and I finally have some side ideas that are looking promising.

My next raise puts me at making more in a year than either one of my parents ever made but I'm still "poor" for the area I live in. Luckily I have my aunt to look up to, I've got a long ways to go to catch her. I do make more than her husband lol.

[wvugurl26]

Damn I actually liked my forensic classes. Although you are right I didn't do the other three semesters because they were fun.

I just can't fathom having $100k in loans and not being a pharmacist, lawyer, nurse practitioner, doctor, engineer something with a higher earning potential.

[Deleted]

May 10, 2012 20:36:50 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

I get the whole - people change, priorities change thing, but "I" would feel WAY WAY WAY too guilty to have $100K in loans and not work.

Same here. My parents paid my way, but to me an education is an investment and if you don't even work long enough to pay the cost, it wasn't much of an investment and maybe you should have skipped college and hung around the bars nearby to snag a husband with a degree in something lucrative. A colleague is supporting a wife who's and MD with student loans who decided she wanted to be a SAHM. I could not do that.

[wvugurl26]

I know a girl who's going back to school now. She had $100k in loans for a masters in education and decided she didn't want to teach. I'm not sure if she is working anymore since she had the baby and went back to school. Her husband will also have 6 figures in student loans as he went to med school.

My undergrad was paid by scholarships and grants. I paid for my masters with loans. I'd do it again but the $19k I have seems high sometimes. I worked when I could but I lost several jobs over the 4 semesters because employers didn't want to work around my class schedule. In my masters program classes were pretty much offered at one time and that was it.

[whoisjohngalt]

You have to get out of MD - MD is no good for you

[Sum Dum Gai]

She works for the feds. She needs to stay near DC and kiss every ass she can find higher in the chain of command. She's in the paying her dues phase, but it'll all be worth it later.

[wvugurl26]

Haha yeah some days it isn't. Knoxville keeps calling to me. I do like my job though and its the longest I've had one. I am liking where it is going so for now I'm staying. Subject to change when I hit permanent track and get off probation on 6/20/2013.

[Sam_2.0]

It depends on what the loans are from. I've seen two scenarios recently where the women graduated with good degrees, and had good jobs. But both had to quit when the kiddos were born (one had a daughter with CP, the other was my SIL with the quads). Both had intended to go back to work after the kiddos were born. Neither one could have forseen those situations, so its not like they went into college thinking they were just getting their MRS degree and they would foot their husbands with the bills once the babies came. In those cases, I think its fine that the husbands are paying the SLs because the wives truly NEED to SAH. But these weren't six-figure amounts either (probably $20k or so).

[wvugurl26]

Oh hell Dark I have to agree with you again. There are so many more jobs up the food chain here. The fighting out in the regions to get a 13 slot is unreal. Post a 14 and you have a bloodbath.

Its taken me almost 2 years to get a handle on the programs and get in the mix of it all but I really like how it is right now. I get to touch everything...proposed regulations, congressional interaction, work planning and audits. The regions do straight audits.

I would like to work more on the fraud side but I think I have a chance at that coming up.

And yes, it limits me but I have no interest in going somewhere that requires me to get on a plane to go home. Not in the cards right now. I was much better off health wise in Rockville so I'm going to try and get back down there.

[wvugurl26]

I think it proves there isn't one set answer Sam. I said originally I think it depends on the circumstances. If one spouse has 6 figures in loans but the other spouse makes 6 figures maybe its ok. Every family has to make that decision for themselves.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Oh hell Dark I have to agree with you again.

You better keep an eye on that. Before you know it you'll be a scum sucking contractor, living in California, and supporting two kids and a wife. That part won't be so bad, but when you grow a penis it's really going to freak you out!

[wvugurl26]

May 10, 2012 21:06:14 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Oh hell Dark I have to agree with you again.

You better keep an eye on that. Before you know it you'll be a scum sucking contractor, living in California, and supporting two kids and a wife. That part won't be so bad, but when you grow a penis it's really going to freak you out!

Tina told me today I had a penis.

Boobs and a penis I'd never leave the house haha!

I can rule out California that violates my distance rule.

[quince]

I'm a bit uncomfortable with the idea of a SAHP with high student loans, but since I don't have one, I shouldn't be. Totally up to the family to decide- as long as the couple is on board, it's right for them.

[findingdeadbeats]

I don't understand how anyone can take out that huge an amount of loans, like $100K and over, and not expect to have a very long, professional career to pay those off. That is more than many people in this country pay for a home.

Then again, with IBR I know people who are older and now taking student loans to live off of and are planning on just using IBR for the next 25 years to pay them off at whatever lowered amount they can based on the current trend of crappy wages, and then let them expire, if their loans don't outlive them.

My mother went back to school at nearly 60 and has student loans that are preventing her from retiring. I think this is going to become a big problem in the near future. People who can't find work in their 50s-60s going back to school and living on student loans then not having to pay them back due to low IBR payments and/or their life spans.