"The invention of lying" applied to real life.

[8 Bit WWBG]

For those who haven't seen it, "The Invention of Lying" is about a society where there are no lies... people say EXACTLY what they mean. One man, through a freak brain action, discovers how to lie, and it changes how he views the world.

What if nobody lied or held back? What if you could tell your superiors that their ideas were doomed to fail and ill-conceived. What if you could tell your ex-hairdresser that you stopped going because they did a downright crappy job?

In the movie, people seem more accepting of this criticism, though they also dish it back. I wonder whether people would work on their shortcomings more if they weren't so accepted.

Would the world be a better place?

[thyme4change]

I liked that movie - we rented it, so it didn't cost me $14 to see it. It was part of Netflix, which is $8.99 for the month.

I'd be interested to hear my shortcomings, but I suspect I already know what my real problems are. At some point, it would just be reiteration.

[Deleted]

The problem with "honest" people is that they often use it as way to hurt other people. Some things are better said left unsaid.

[Deleted]

And, just because something is honestly your opinion, does not make that the objective truth.

[Angel!]

Not unless people get a lot tougher. You could to an extent say it would be like YM - people tell you the straight truth. But, even on YM people get their feelings hurt because someone else's opinion is insulting.

[Deleted]

But the "straight truth" is often just someone's opinion, not something like the Law of Gravity.

[Angel!]

May 4, 2012 14:21:40 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I liked that movie - we rented it, so it didn't cost me $14 to see it. It was part of Netflix, which is $8.99 for the month.

LMAO! Are you trying to keep this money-related somehow? What is the purpose of this random tidbit of information?

Could TMI on stuff completely unrelated to the conversation be one of your short-comings?

[Peace Of Mind]

My guess would be that everybody would be hermits and murder rates would be at the highest level society has ever seen.

ETA: LMAO at making this money related. <<quickly adds>>

And the costs would be unsustainable to run such a society. ;D

[Angel!]

May 4, 2012 14:24:38 GMT -5 @shooby said:

But the "straight truth" is often just someone's opinion, not something like the Law of Gravity.

Yep. The truth as they see it.

[thyme4change]

One of the problems with the movie was that not only were they honest, but they volunteered so much information.

Like, when she opened the door for her date she said "Hi, I just masturbated." Honest, yes. But also saying "Hi, how are you?" would also be honest. Or just "Hi." I guess you could quote the lie of omission - BUT - there was plenty of time when people weren't saying every single thing. The bank teller didn't say "Hi, I'm married, have 2 kids and a dog. My living room is painted green, and I spilled applesauce on my carpet 10 years ago."

[Deleted]

Why do we need to tell everyone everything about ourselves anyway? And, we can simply choose not to offer our opinion as well.

[midjd]

I think it would be a huge adjustment for those of us who are already adults - but I can see how if you grew up in a world with no lying, you'd be used to it (and probably end up with a pretty thick skin as a result).

DH is one of the only people I've known who seems to be totally incapable of lying. He's like Sheldon from BBT in that aspect. I've tried to work on him so that he can at least tell white lies, but he's still not very good. And he gets so confused - "Why do you want me to lie? Shouldn't people always tell the truth?" It's adorable. (My answer is "Yes, the truth is good, but you work at a car dealership, and too much of the truth will get you fired." )

In addition to not lying, he tends to volunteer information - he's gotten a lot better at not volunteering than he has at the actual lying part.

So through him, I can see the advantages/disadvantages of not lying - everyone knows that what he says is true, without question, and if they ask him something, they'll get an honest answer, even if they don't like it. So he's pretty trusted by everyone. OTOH, he ends up doing a lot of things he doesn't particularly want to do only because he can't come up with a plausible excuse and is too much of a softy to come straight out and say "I'd go to your party but really I just want to sit at home because your house smells like cat pee."

[Peace Of Mind]

Like, when she opened the door for her date she said "Hi, I just masturbated." Honest, yes. But also saying "Hi, how are you?" would also be honest. Or just "Hi." I guess you could quote the lie of omission - BUT - there was plenty of time when people weren't saying every single thing. The bank teller didn't say "Hi, I'm married, have 2 kids and a dog. My living room is painted green, and I spilled applesauce on my carpet 10 years ago."

That also goes along with how you answer "How are you?". Nobody wants all of the gory details in RL. Just say fine, or I don't feel good... but you don't need to tell me your life story. Really. I just don't need to know all of that info. like your husband is cheating and your kid wipes his boogers on the walls, etc. I go to EE for that kind of conversation.

[Angel!]

May 4, 2012 14:28:31 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

One of the problems with the movie was that not only were they honest, but they volunteered so much information.

I get it now.

I have to admit I actually LOL'd at your comment. It reminded me of those people that just seem very nervous so they can't stop talking even when what they are saying is completely irrelevent.

[cronewitch]

Saying the truth can just be cruel for no reason. My great aunt was elderly and blind, she liked to go to church but couldn't do her hair. Someone bought her a wig and she wore it to church thinking she looked good. A dear friend felt the need to let her know the wig didn't look good on her, she knew she would want to know.

So in the future she had a choice of going with ugly wig, ugly hair or staying away from church because her hair is ugly.

[happyhoix]

I don't see me living long under such a system.

There's the woman in my office that dresses like a hooker. She would have shoved a stiletto heel into my eye socket long ago.

Or that family in my neighbor hood that thinks all their yard art is cute. I'd probably have had a concrete lawn rabbit wedged up into my nether regions long ago.

[thyme4change]

I have to admit I actually LOL'd at your comment.

It was a cute movie, and without whats-her-name blurting out a bunch of nonsensical stuff, the entirety of the humor would have been in Ricky Jervais's hands. He wasn't funny enough to carry a mediocre script all by himself.

[Virgil Showlion]

Discretion is the better part of valor.

'Nuff said.

[Opti]

May 4, 2012 14:19:17 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

For those who haven't seen it, "The Invention of Lying" is about a society where there are no lies... people say EXACTLY what they mean. One man, through a freak brain action, discovers how to lie, and it changes how he views the world.

What if nobody lied or held back? What if you could tell your superiors that their ideas were doomed to fail and ill-conceived. What if you could tell your ex-hairdresser that you stopped going because they did a downright crappy job?

In the movie, people seem more accepting of this criticism, though they also dish it back. I wonder whether people would work on their shortcomings more if they weren't so accepted.

Would the world be a better place?

I haven't seen the movie but variations of this theme are common in sci-fi novels. Its far more interesting version-wise when a species can read each others and other species thoughts. No need to say anything.

The world would be different.
I agree there's a difference between telling the truth and volunteering unnecessary information. Over the years I've learned mostly to volunteer less, but I still talk or type too much when I'm tired or stressed.

[whoisjohngalt]

I think it would be a huge adjustment for those of us who are already adults - but I can see how if you grew up in a world with no lying, you'd be used to it (and probably end up with a pretty thick skin as a result).

The thing is, people don't "learn" to lie, they just do. I caught my 3.5 yr in a lie yesterday, BELIEVE ME, he didn't even know what he was doing. He just didn't want to get in trouble. To him, a sticky lollipop on the carpet = punishment, so he said he didn't drop it.

There was an article a bit ago about how kids lie and how it really has a lot to do with creativity and how their brain process things vs them being malicious.

I don't know about the world without lying, but I would LOVE to live in the world without a lot of PC BS that we have going on.
It's too exhausting sometimes to just talk to people bc you never really know what THEY are saying and you never really know how what YOU are saying is effecting them.

Lena

[Deleted]

I guess it depends on what type of lying. I don't want someone to tell me they don't like my choice of outfits or whatever unless i specifically ask them. But, the PC BS is lying because people are saying things they don't believe just because they feel forced too.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

"I don't know about the world without lying, but I would LOVE to live in the world without a lot of PC BS that we have going on.
It's too exhausting sometimes to just talk to people bc you never really know what THEY are saying and you never really know how what YOU are saying is effecting them.

Lena"


Wow, did you ever nail that description!!!!!!!!! It just gets too damn hard to have conversations with *some* people -- trying to figure out what the other person wants to hear because, God forbid, you say the wrong thing -- it becomes fodder for the gossip mill and a sufficient basis to ostracize you and your family. For one stinking comment/opinion/statement!!!!!!!!! I work really hard at being authentic, but it is REALLY hard to stay the course.

Karma, Lena!!!

ETA: Remember when people could civilly disagree on various topics and learn from each other, or laugh about their differences, or just freaking accept each other??? Or, maybe I'm imagining a different world...

[8 Bit WWBG]

I suppose a parallel concept was explored in "Liar Liar". He DID volunteer some information that could have remained unsaid.

An omission was not a lie. If it was, Spock would not have been able to use one in "Undiscovered Country".

[Formerly SK]

May 4, 2012 14:31:52 GMT -5 midjd said:

I think it would be a huge adjustment for those of us who are already adults - but I can see how if you grew up in a world with no lying, you'd be used to it (and probably end up with a pretty thick skin as a result).

DH is one of the only people I've known who seems to be totally incapable of lying. He's like Sheldon from BBT in that aspect. I've tried to work on him so that he can at least tell white lies, but he's still not very good. And he gets so confused - "Why do you want me to lie? Shouldn't people always tell the truth?" It's adorable. (My answer is "Yes, the truth is good, but you work at a car dealership, and too much of the truth will get you fired." )

In addition to not lying, he tends to volunteer information - he's gotten a lot better at not volunteering than he has at the actual lying part.

So through him, I can see the advantages/disadvantages of not lying - everyone knows that what he says is true, without question, and if they ask him something, they'll get an honest answer, even if they don't like it. So he's pretty trusted by everyone. OTOH, he ends up doing a lot of things he doesn't particularly want to do only because he can't come up with a plausible excuse and is too much of a softy to come straight out and say "I'd go to your party but really I just want to sit at home because your house smells like cat pee."

My DH is this way, and the more I know him the more I aspire to be this way too. Lying seems very unnecessary. And no, that doesn't mean you constantly tell a cruel truth to someone. But there is nothing wrong with saying, "Thanks for the invite but I'm just really tired and want to sit at home." That is just as honest as the smell like cat pee statement. Now, if someone asked you, "Does my house smell like cat pee?" then yes I would tell the truth. But again, you can do that kindly and in a way that helps the person with the problem rather than condemns/judges the person.

[thyme4change]

"Thanks for the invite but I'm just really tired and want to sit at home." That is just as honest as the smell like cat pee statement.

But what if you don't want to sit at home. What if you desperately want to go out, but basically anywhere but this person's house. You don't have plans, but you are frantically searching for plans, because you are sick of being at home - but if you HAD to, you would choose sitting at home over going to the cat pee house. Should your answer be "I am looking for other plans that night, so I won't be available. If, however, nothing else comes up, I will be at home."

[imawino]

This thread is making me start to worry that my house smells like cat pee. Can someone come over and give it a sniff? Damn cats.

[thyme4change]

I'd offer to, but I'm sure my house smells like cat pee. I think I've become somewhat immune to it. So, you need a fresher nose.

[imawino]

LOL. Damn me and my unfresh nose! Honestly, what could I do if the answer was yes? I'm not going to have them killed and I already feel as though I spend too much time cleaning up after them. It's not like I really want guests anyway.

[thyme4change]

Honestly, what could I do if the answer was yes?

I just mix the drinks I give to my guests really, really strong. If they notice, it goes away after the first drink or two.

[imawino]

May 7, 2012 17:45:03 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Honestly, what could I do if the answer was yes?

I just mix the drinks I give to my guests really, really strong. If they notice, it goes away after the first drink or two.

Genius! Much easier than only making friends with people who have cats. And plus it would let me weed out the non-drinkers easily. Win-win.