Atheists and Morals

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Apr 26, 2012 9:34:16 GMT -5 @heart2heart said:

I guess it could be argued that without the fear of God, someone might choose to act immoral.

Aham, the above is assuming one believes in God in the first place. To fear God is to revere him in worship, is it not? But then again, you did say might..

Tell me. Is, not believing, equaled to not fearing God, would you say? You know, could one be committing the sin of omission here and not realize it or for that matter not even much care about it either? So long as the behavior is good, and being good, being good enough?..

Just asking and sayin'..

That's a good question heart. Logically if one doesn't believe in something then it would be impossible to fear it. However, isn't trying to deny and explain something away actually proving its existence in the first place?

All we can do is try to respect one another Heart, lets face it, people that are sad and depressed are that way because they lack something, one could say they lack, spirit!


For me personally it’s about respect. I know that everyone on here and every living thing (including plants) on this planet, started out as a single celled organism; and that cell has evolved into what it is today. I also know that there are various stages of this process going on right now all around us and it will continue to be that way long after I am gone.

I know that if I respected my creator, I was shown love and that if I disrespected my creator, the hammer was brought down. I know that people deny God because they say that an almighty creator wouldn’t let bad things happen to good people. I don’t understand why this is a point against a creator. Its bad people that do bad things to other people, and science has proven that we are evolving from savage ape like beings. We have had to teach each other to be kind and there have been some people along the way that have really helped push that along. For the last 2000+ yrs the biggest part of that concept was, everyone knows who.

I know that as human species, there has never been a time that we have evolved as quickly on all angles of ourselves as the last 200 years. The interesting thing is why, and how so many are quick to paint science, business, and industry with the evil brush because of bad apples.

Apr 26, 2012 9:49:52 GMT -5 cael said:

I don't think the universe arising from some primordial form of matter or whatever is any less believable than that a sentient force no one can prove exists created it. I'll believe any of it, when I see it! (and scientific fact for me is 'seeing it')

Personally I believe you can see it cael. Have you seen a star being born? It’s crazy. Nebulae are light years across in size, there're planets in our on solar system that are so much lager than our own. Our planet is nothing but a speck in the universe and the earth is larger that all of us combined. Science has proven that this all started with a big bang! Interesting that all our lives stated in a similar way, non?......

The really crazy thing about size is that right now all of the humans on earth standing side by side only need a space the size of Los angles. There is more than enough room for all of us here, and if we respect the Earth, from which our species was most likely born, then there will be more than enough resources for us all to survive and thrive!

God Blessed America!

[Tiny]

Wow, Virgil. I can't decide if I'm confused or in awe (probably both at the same time).

[Deleted]

Apr 26, 2012 14:40:45 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Wow, Virgil. I can't decide if I'm confused or in awe (probably both at the same time).

[Green Eyed Lady]

Apr 26, 2012 14:40:45 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Wow, Virgil. I can't decide if I'm confused or in awe (probably both at the same time).

I don't know about you, but he makes me just want to shut up and listen.

[Virgil Showlion]

Apr 26, 2012 14:40:45 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Wow, Virgil. I can't decide if I'm confused or in awe (probably both at the same time).

Don't get me wrong, Ms. Atsiaru. If an atheist feels compelled to gut me and skip rope with my intestines, I'm certainly appreciative when his ethical beliefs prevent him from doing so. I just question the logic in denying his compulsion.

Therein lies the rub. It's really not in my best interest to convince an atheist psychopath that his ethical inhibitions are irrational.

for putting up with me.

[weltschmerz]

Michelle Duggar says the entire global population can fit into Jacksonville, Florida.
now.msn.com/now/0330-michelle-duggar-no-overpopulation.aspx?_p=ce3fd48e-9196-43ea-81a3-8c2e0c093df5

[weltschmerz]

Therein lies the rub. It's really not in my best interest to convince an atheist psychopath that his ethical inhibitions are irrational
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Now atheists are psychopaths?

[Deleted]

Apr 26, 2012 14:59:47 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Therein lies the rub. It's really not in my best interest to convince an atheist psychopath that his ethical inhibitions are irrational
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Now atheists are psychopaths?

I'm sure there are some atheists that are psycopaths, just like there are some Virgils that are psychopaths. I don't think he was calling all athieists psychopaths.

[weltschmerz]

That's a good question heart. Logically if one doesn't believe in something then it would be impossible to fear it. However, isn't trying to deny and explain something away actually proving its existence in the first place?
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Nope. If I deny Santa Clause, I'm not lending credence to his existence.

[Deleted]

Apr 26, 2012 15:16:31 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

That's a good question heart. Logically if one doesn't believe in something then it would be impossible to fear it. However, isn't trying to deny and explain something away actually proving its existence in the first place?
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Nope. If I deny Santa Clause, I'm not lending credence to his existence.

Right so you are saying that if you try to deny or explain away the purple elephant I worship by your explanation you are proving the very existance of my purple elephant.

[Peace Of Mind]

Apr 26, 2012 14:59:47 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Therein lies the rub. It's really not in my best interest to convince an atheist psychopath that his ethical inhibitions are irrational
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It's the same way with Christian psychopaths.

I live in the bible belt in our area and I know two women who go to Church constantly and they go to bible study every week. They both constantly tout how they are such good Christians in an arrogant way (as in "I'm better than ____". When I asked one of them why she studies the bible so much she said it's because she doesn't like the person she is when she doesn't. Would it be rude of me to bring up that she is wasting her time?

I'm not an atheist nor am I a bible thumper, but I do believe in a higher power that I call God. I think it's more respectful than Dude or Dudette. ;D

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Apr 26, 2012 15:16:31 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

That's a good question heart. Logically if one doesn't believe in something then it would be impossible to fear it. However, isn't trying to deny and explain something away actually proving its existence in the first place?
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Nope. If I deny Santa Clause, I'm not lending credence to his existence.

Terrible example Weltz, Santa is based off of St. Nicholas an actual person that existed. Religion and spiritually, two VERY different things.

[weltschmerz]

Apr 26, 2012 15:22:21 GMT -5 @joey said:

Apr 26, 2012 15:16:31 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

That's a good question heart. Logically if one doesn't believe in something then it would be impossible to fear it. However, isn't trying to deny and explain something away actually proving its existence in the first place?
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Nope. If I deny Santa Clause, I'm not lending credence to his existence.

Right so you are saying that if you try to deny or explain away the purple elephant I worship by your explanation you are proving the very existance of my purple elephant.

....or his Holiness, the FSM. I've been touched by His Noodly Appendage.
Ramen.

[Tiny]

Apr 26, 2012 14:51:23 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Apr 26, 2012 14:40:45 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Wow, Virgil. I can't decide if I'm confused or in awe (probably both at the same time).

Don't get me wrong, Ms. Atsiaru. If an atheist feels compelled to gut me and skip rope with my intestines, I'm certainly appreciative when his ethical beliefs prevent him from doing so. I just question the logic in denying his compulsion.

Therein lies the rub. It's really not in my best interest to convince an atheist psychopath that his ethical inhibitions are irrational.

for putting up with me.

Gosh, I think I'm developing a school girl crush...
And by the way I'll parry that "psychopath atheist jab" and say that as an atheist I am thankful any time a theist doesn't want to hurt/maim/or kill me(or anyone else) solely because he fears his God/wishes to obey his God. I would be a foolish atheist to attempt to convince a theist of the non existence of god(s) IF the only thing keeping him from rape, murder, etc is his belief in a god (or gods).

[Peace Of Mind]

Not to mention that plane thing. I don't recall Atheists doing much of that.

[weltschmerz]

Terrible example Weltz, Santa is based off of St. Nicholas an actual person that existed.
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It's a great example. Did St Nicholas live at the North Pole, building toys with his elves and delivering them in one night via a sled pulled by flying reindeer?
By denying Santa, I don't prove his existence.

[Tiny]

Apr 26, 2012 15:28:32 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Apr 26, 2012 15:16:31 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

That's a good question heart. Logically if one doesn't believe in something then it would be impossible to fear it. However, isn't trying to deny and explain something away actually proving its existence in the first place?
-----------------------
Nope. If I deny Santa Clause, I'm not lending credence to his existence.

Terrible example Weltz, Santa is based off of St. Nicholas an actual person that existed. Religion and spiritually, two VERY different things.

Weltz's example might not be the best but she's right. The Invisible Pink Unicorn though is a good example.... If you can't disprove the existence of an Invisible Pink Unicorn does that mean it MUST exist?

[weltschmerz]

The sense of empathy should be enough to keep people from behaving badly. The Golden Rule is based on the ancient Law of Reciprocity.

[Deleted]

Apr 26, 2012 15:42:03 GMT -5 Peace Of Mind said:

Not to mention that plane thing. I don't recall Atheists doing much of that.

There's not much to get militant about, since our afterlife consists of turning into fertilizer!

[Tiny]

Apr 26, 2012 15:42:03 GMT -5 Peace Of Mind said:

Not to mention that plane thing. I don't recall Atheists doing much of that.

Well, the atheists get hit with Stalin/communists were atheists and look at the horrors they committed against tens of thousands.... to which the appropriate counter argument is trot out the atrocities committed by your favorite religious group. That just goes around tit for tat in an endless loop.

[Peace Of Mind]

Apr 26, 2012 15:48:20 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

Apr 26, 2012 15:42:03 GMT -5 Peace Of Mind said:

Not to mention that plane thing. I don't recall Atheists doing much of that.

There's not much to get militant about, since our afterlife consists of turning into fertilizer!

LOL! I can only hope! This reincarnation thing or afterlife makes me nervous!

[weltschmerz]

And by the way I'll parry that "psychopath atheist jab" and say that as an atheist I am thankful any time a theist doesn't want to hurt/maim/or kill me(or anyone else) solely because he fears his God/wishes to obey his God
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I have met people who told me the only thing keeping them from rape, robbery and murder is their fear of God. They scare the crap out of me.

[Tiny]

Apr 26, 2012 15:48:17 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

The sense of empathy should be enough to keep people from behaving badly. The Golden Rule is based on the ancient Law of Reciprocity.

I agree. The worse human behavior to others happens whenever we "dehumanize" other humans.

But where does 'empathy' come from? Unfortunately, I fear it's way our brains work (and not something supernatural or outside our body) which means some people may be capable of less empathy than others - even if they 'practice' and try to learn to empathise.

[Tiny]

Apr 26, 2012 15:55:15 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

And by the way I'll parry that "psychopath atheist jab" and say that as an atheist I am thankful any time a theist doesn't want to hurt/maim/or kill me(or anyone else) solely because he fears his God/wishes to obey his God
---------------------
I have met people who told me the only thing keeping them from rape, robbery and murder is their fear of God. They scare the crap out of me.

Yeah, I've had people tell me this too. They frighten me too. I hope it's just a euphamism for doing the right the thing even though it's inconvenient.

[Deleted]

Apr 26, 2012 15:46:41 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Apr 26, 2012 15:28:32 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Terrible example Weltz, Santa is based off of St. Nicholas an actual person that existed. Religion and spiritually, two VERY different things.

Weltz's example might not be the best but she's right. The Invisible Pink Unicorn though is a good example.... If you can't disprove the existence of an Invisible Pink Unicorn does that mean it MUST exist?

Its a purple elephant, don't tell me you can't see it.

[Deleted]

Apr 26, 2012 16:00:41 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Apr 26, 2012 15:55:15 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

And by the way I'll parry that "psychopath atheist jab" and say that as an atheist I am thankful any time a theist doesn't want to hurt/maim/or kill me(or anyone else) solely because he fears his God/wishes to obey his God
---------------------
I have met people who told me the only thing keeping them from rape, robbery and murder is their fear of God. They scare the crap out of me.

Yeah, I've had people tell me this too. I hope it's just a euphamism for doing the right the thing. It frightens me too.

It should frighten you. Its nuts.

[Peace Of Mind]

Apr 26, 2012 15:58:23 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Apr 26, 2012 15:48:17 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

The sense of empathy should be enough to keep people from behaving badly. The Golden Rule is based on the ancient Law of Reciprocity.

I agree. The worse human behavior to others happens whenever we "dehumanize" other humans.

But where does 'empathy' come from? Unfortunately, I fear it's way our brains work (and not something supernatural or outside our body) which means some people may be capable of less empathy than others - even if they 'practice' and try to learn to empathise.

Hence the addition of the word psychopath - regardless of beliefs.

[Tiny]

Apr 26, 2012 16:00:59 GMT -5 @joey said:

Apr 26, 2012 15:46:41 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Weltz's example might not be the best but she's right. The Invisible Pink Unicorn though is a good example.... If you can't disprove the existence of an Invisible Pink Unicorn does that mean it MUST exist?

Its a purple elephant, don't tell me you can't see it.

My vision isn't the best.... does it smell like an elephant or make elephant noises or is it just visual image?

[Virgil Showlion]

Apr 26, 2012 14:59:47 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Therein lies the rub. It's really not in my best interest to convince an atheist psychopath that his ethical inhibitions are irrational
---------------------
Now atheists are psychopaths?

Although I'm well aware you're playing dumb, Ms. Weltz, I will clarify for others:

An individual who is both i) an atheist, such that he is not beholden to or inhibited by any notions of divine law, righteousness in the eyes of God, etc., and ii) a psychopath, such that he values only the self and places little to no value in the lives and well being of others.

This personality is distinct from both i) a "religious" psychopath who believes in and/or claims to uphold Godly law, yet chooses to transgress it, and ii) a normal atheist who empathizes with others and places more than a little value in their lives and well being.

In short, both qualifiers "atheist" and "psychopath" are required, without implying any relationship between the two.

Of course you're already well aware of this, but there it is for posterity.

ETA: Perhaps a clearer term would be "atheistic psychopath", although I somehow doubt this would've mattered much.

[Deleted]

Virgil, A+ on verbosity. Is that a good thing?

Here is the thing, most normal human beings have a certain empathy for one another, (we are part of the human tribe) it is in our genes. Most of us don’t like to see things die and we mourn their passing and celebrate their life, we don’t like to see things suffer, so we try to relieve pain, we don’t like to see people harm one another and so we have rules. It is primal, innate and right.

There doesn’t have to be some supernatural power to make us know what we know and feel innately.

Now sociopaths and psychopaths…that day there was a malfunction in the building process.