Exposure to many faiths can confirm core belief

[Tennesseer]

May 4, 2014 23:58:08 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

May 4, 2014 5:41:43 GMT -5 Shooby said:

I have no problem with exposing kids to a variety of religions. Unfortunately, in our "wisdom" we have decided kids shouldn't learn about anyone's religion.

Shoobs, I was going to touch on this last night a bit but was losing focus. As you could probably see by the, exactly is it, part to my response. (just changed it)

I think that it's the single most important part to ones physical well being to understand the spirit (energy) that flows through us all.

I have my kids in catholic school (even though I'm not catholic), they dive into lots of different cultures as well. I really notice my second one picking up on it. He's always talking about Jesus, it's totally .

That is a no-brainer.  Jesus being taught in a Catholic school.  Imagine that.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

May 5, 2014 9:11:21 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

Learning that the Crusades were considered a "holy war" is not learning about religion. 

Exactly, but a course like this is.. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics_and_religious_culture

Very similar to the way the course in my kids school is. Which is why I find it so that my second one still gravitates toward JC..

You hear that Tenn? My SECOND one.. Meaning the older likes to talk about all these other cultures that he is learning about. Which I also find .

[thyme4change]

May 4, 2014 0:04:29 GMT -5 oped said:

thyme4change, let me ask you this, do you think the cook or the tiger story was the real one? 

Well - since I flunked English 101 because I took everything literally and couldn't see the symbolism, blah, blah, blah - I have to believe that the tiger story was a metaphor for a side of him he never knew existed.  Otherwise, that English professor will hunt me down and flunked me again.

[Deleted]

Ok, ok... But did you want to believe the tiger story, or did you want to believe the darkness? 

If you were the insurance adjust or, which story would you have written down? 

[billisonboard]

....

........Among respondents who strongly agreed with the statement, "I have a good knowledge of the cultural values and religious beliefs of some other cultures," 68 per cent said they were interested in the history of their own religious or ethnic community.

However, among respondents with little knowledge of other cultures and religions, only 19 per cent said they were interested in the history of their own religion and culture......

........People with a good knowledge of other cultures and religions also were more likely to have a high level of knowledge about their own religious community and culture (78 per cent) while among those with little knowledge of other religions and cultures, only 23 per cent had good knowledge of their own.

Seems that this "proves" that people interested in culture and religion are interested in culture and religion. Those who aren't, aren't. A little experiment:

........Among respondents who strongly agreed with the statement, "I have a good knowledge of some other cars," 68 per cent said they were interested in their car.

However, among respondents with little knowledge of other cars, only 19 per cent said they were interested in their own car......

........People with a good knowledge of other cars also were more likely to have a high level of knowledge about their cars (78 per cent) while among those with little knowledge of other cars, only 23 per cent had good knowledge of their own.

Yep, makes sense.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

The point being, bills that we should be exposing children to cultures and religions so they have a better understanding, or are at least given the opportunity to have a better understanding of cultures and religion. Love and understanding is the basis for a strong society, which is why it's the basis of the Messiah's teachings.

Using your car analogy. Chev and Buick both come from GM. I don't have to have a great understanding of cars, or a real desire to know about cars to get that point . But if no one took the time to even bring the point up, it's guaranteed that I would never know.

[mmhmm]

Learning about many religions certainly cemented my core beliefs.

[Angel!]

May 10, 2014 23:26:43 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

....

........Among respondents who strongly agreed with the statement, "I have a good knowledge of the cultural values and religious beliefs of some other cultures," 68 per cent said they were interested in the history of their own religious or ethnic community.

However, among respondents with little knowledge of other cultures and religions, only 19 per cent said they were interested in the history of their own religion and culture......

........People with a good knowledge of other cultures and religions also were more likely to have a high level of knowledge about their own religious community and culture (78 per cent) while among those with little knowledge of other religions and cultures, only 23 per cent had good knowledge of their own.

Seems that this "proves" that people interested in culture and religion are interested in culture and religion. Those who aren't, aren't. A little experiment:

........Among respondents who strongly agreed with the statement, "I have a good knowledge of some other cars," 68 per cent said they were interested in their car.

However, among respondents with little knowledge of other cars, only 19 per cent said they were interested in their own car......

........People with a good knowledge of other cars also were more likely to have a high level of knowledge about their cars (78 per cent) while among those with little knowledge of other cars, only 23 per cent had good knowledge of their own.

Yep, makes sense.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that had this takeaway from the survey. People interested in other religions are also more interested in their own. In other words some people are just interested in religion. 

[Angel!]

May 12, 2014 13:44:59 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Learning about many religions certainly cemented my core beliefs.

Me too.   I also have found that the older I have gotten the more I am unable to even understand the beliefs of others.  I haven't decided if that is a good thing or bad thing yet.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Yet Angel, here you are posting and reading in the religious discussion area.

I find that people aren't generally honest with themselves regarding religion and history, which is why it's always such a hot topic. This is why I think it's important for young people to be educated on the subject, understanding(learning) is the key to a better future.

[mmhmm]

Sometimes, Aham, what people are interested in is not necessarily religion and history.  In my case, I'm interested in people and what makes them "tick".  Religion and history are part of what makes us think the way we do and act the way we do.  But, they're only a part of the equation.  There's so much more to be learned.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Well, I would say that an individuals history makes them into the person they are today, and the history of the world has made it into what it is today.(the tick you're talking about)

I agree there is much to learn, and that's why we need to teach kids about differences.

What I mean about people not being honest with themselves is that they feel God in their lives, but ignore it because of their bias towards an institution.

What I find most interesting above all else, is that science is proving without a shadow of a doubt that God exists. Which makes sense because every person throughout history that has had a large impact on the scientific process, has believed in a supreme force in the universe(God).

[mmhmm]

I differ somewhat in my thinking, Aham.  I think there are a lot of things that go into what makes people "tick".  We're each individuals and don't always march to the same drummer.  Not everyone who doesn't believe in a deity is being dishonest with themselves.  It might seem that way to you, but that doesn't make it an absolute truth.  It's just the way you happen to perceive it.  I perceive it differently and am one of those who does not believe.  No dishonesty about it, internal or external.  I also haven't seen any proof from science that God exists. I'm happy to honor your belief, however.  That's up to you.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Everything that goes into what makes people "tick" is part of their past, aka their history. I didn't say it was all the same history, just that it is history. I'm sure you can find a way to spin it so it's not history, but that's what history is, the past. No grey areas, what happened, happened.

There is lots and lots of proof in science of God. Science shows humans starting at a single point, just like the universe. There is the higgs boson particle that shows the base for it all, and the big bang has essentiy been proven. You can take it how you want, and I know you do. But I have a question for you, do you believe you have a better understanding of how things are that say Isaac Newton, Ibn al-Haitham or Einstein did?

I didn't say that everyone who doesn't think there is a God is being dishonest, what I said was that in my experience people tend to reject God simply on the fact they don't like an institution, even if they feel the sport inside of them.(from conversations I have had with people over the years) Which to me is a form of dishonestly.

[mmhmm]

Well, Aham, you can't apply the same conclusion to everyone, I'm afraid.  As I said, we're individuals and there's more that goes into us than just our history. There's our body chemistry, for instance.  I don't have to spin anything.  I believe what I believe and you believe what you believe.  That's okay by me.  I've got nothing against institutions.  They serve a purpose for many.  Religious institutions don't serve any purpose for me, but that doesn't make them valueless.  I'm not the only fish in this big sea.  Your experience defines things for you, but it doesn't define things for me.  It also doesn't define me.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Well, mmhmm, the world is governed by the laws of physics and people are all the same species, I'm afraid. Body chemistry you say, sure, and I will bold/highlight the parts that would be part of your past/history that defines who you are.

How Love Changes Your Body Chemistry

Addicted to love

Dopamine is the brain’s pleasure chemical. It plays a role in gambling, drug use, and, well, love. When we fall in love, dopamine is released, making couples feel elated and energetic about each other.

"That someone takes on special meaning to you and you focus on this individual because the dopamine system has been activated," says Helen Fisher, PhD, a biological anthropologist. “It is what triggers very goal oriented behavior, where no one else matters but your new partner.”

Dopamine can be present in both early-stage and long-term romantic love, she says.

[mmhmm]

You do realize, Aham, that it's not just the release of dopamine that's important.  The reuptake is also important.  Reuptake is not sufficient in everyone for varying reasons.  Again, as I said, we're all individuals.  What we read on the internet is often taken out of context and put out there as though it applies universally.  As in the case of your dopamine example, some just don't apply universally.  What's right for you is not necessarily right for everyone.  What's important, as I see it, is that we give one another the right to be the individuals we are, to believe as we find it right for ourselves, and respect one another enough not to tell each other what we should believe.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Like how you keep telling me I should accept that everyone is an individual, and that there is no universal application because you say their isn't? Is that what I should do?

The point of the article is that what happens to us, causes dopamine to be released. Ie) The love we receive during childhood/adolescences/adulthood, or if we decided to gamble, or do drugs. All these things affect an individuals history, and shapes who we are presently. Yes, I understand that love, gambling, and drugs all have varying degrees of effect. I'm not taking anything out of context. You brought up body chemistry, and the fact is that what happens to us during our life affects our body chemistry. Further proving my point.

[mmhmm]

*chuckle*  Whatever, Aham.  I'm not here to change your mind, or your beliefs.  You're definitely not going to change mine.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I know I don't have to, God is in the process of finishing off the kingdom of man.

[Angel!]

May 12, 2014 14:56:49 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Yet Angel, here you are posting and reading in the religious discussion area.

Yes, because like Mmhmm I am more interested in people than their specific beliefs.  I find religious beliefs fascinating.  I find what these beliefs can cause a person to do fascinating.  I find the ability to put basic logic on hold for their beliefs absolutely astonishing. 

[Angel!]

May 12, 2014 16:39:31 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

What I find most interesting above all else, is that science is proving without a shadow of a doubt that God exists.

Ummm.  No it isn't.  Science can't disprove god because you can't prove something does not exist.  But, science is no closer to proving the existence of a god than they ever were.

[Angel!]

And you can't use random scientific data as proof of a god.  The big bang neither proves or disproves god. 

One of my favorite examples is using the fact that my car starts every morning as proof that I have a large, invisible dragon that lives in my garage.  How do I know even though I can't see him, hear him, or feel him....because he is the reason my car starts every morning.  I know this & you can't prove otherwise, therefore clearly I am right & he does exist.  You can show me all the scientific/mechanical aspects of my car starting to try to show that it works with or without the dragon, but I know that those things work because of my dragon.  Therefore, those are just further proof of my dragon in my garage.

All the talking & proof in the world will never convince you that my dragon is real & will never convince me that he isn't.  What is interesting, IMO, is why I came to believe that I had a large dragon in my garage in the first place.  What stories and experiences led me to such a conclusion that to an outsider would be absolutely bizarre.  And then watching me defend the existence of that dragon & watching me get angry at others for disbelief & seeing me willing to die for my dragon -- that is absolutely fascinating.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Lol, it's not random scientific proof, it's thousands of years of discovery. Keep telling yourself whatever makes you feel better, your dragon theory is great scientific evidence.. I will keep listening to some of the greatest minds that have ever existed...

This sums it up nicely...

Astronomers now find they have painted themselves into a corner because they have proven, by their own methods, that the world began abruptly in an act of creation to which you can trace the seeds of every star, every planet, every living thing in this cosmos and on the earth. And they have found that all this happened as a product of forces they cannot hope to discover…. That there are what I or anyone would call supernatural forces at work is now, I think, a scientifically proven fact.

–Astronomer, physicist and founder of NASA’s Goddard Institute of Space Studies Robert Jastrow. Please see Jastrow’s book God and the Astronomers for further reading.

[Angel!]

May 13, 2014 15:05:28 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Lol, it's not random scientific proof, it's thousands of years of discovery. Keep telling yourself whatever makes you feel better, your dragon theory is great scientific evidence.. I will keep listening to some of the greatest minds that have ever existed...

There is no thousands of years of discovery showing proof of god. There is no proof of god period.

That is kind of the point...my dragon theory isn't great scientific evidence. Yet it is a pretty close approximation to a belief in god. The only difference is thousands of years of history in the belief of your god & a book that says he exists. Otherwise, there is no more proof in your god than in my dragon.

That there are what I or anyone would call supernatural forces at work is now, I think, a scientifically proven fact.

And to paraphrase Michael Shermer...There is no such thing as supernatural, only things which science has yet to explain. Not having an explaination & leaping to supernatural (god) as an explaination is merely a "god of the gaps". Just because we can't explain does not mean god did it. Just because I don't understand how my car starts does not mean my dragon did it.

Please note - I am not saying there is no god. Although I believe there is no god, I also understand I can't prove there is no god & therefore god may exist. But, I do know there is no proof of god & definitely no proof of a god of a specific religion.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

There is proof of God everywhere, but because you choose not to believe in God, you are leaping to the conclusion that there is no God. Even though you state you can't prove there isn't one.

As far as your sarcastic dragon theory goes, many can explain why your car starts... So its really a terrible example....Also, if you are trying to say that because God is invisible it doesn't exists, then I better stop believing in oxygen, gravity, natural gas...

And yes it has been thousands of years of discovery, read "Science A Four Thousand Year History." What is considered pseudo science now, was the basis for our modern science. Take astrology for instance....

Since we know that the big bang was real, and we know the universe is connected, the next supernatural discovery that science will clear up is a creator! Something started the creation of the universe. Or am I to believe that something can be created by nothing? If that's the case you should have no problem believing that Jesus was born from a virgin.

Also, you proved my point about how people automatically associate God with religion, by trying to discredit me by saying my book....

A quote from the spiritualist, Alfred Russell Wallace...

Natural Selection could only have endowed the savage with a brain a little superior to that of an ape, whereas he actually possesses one but very little inferior to that of the average members of our learned societies.… we must therefore admit the possibility, that in the development of the human race, a Higher Intelligence has guided the same laws [of variation, multiplication, and survival] for nobler ends.’7

[Angel!]

May 13, 2014 19:12:13 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

There is proof of God everywhere, but because you choose not to believe in God, you are leaping to the conclusion that there is no God.

There is no proof of god anywhere, but because you choose to believe in god, you are leaping to the conclusion that there is a god. 

Even though you state you can't prove there isn't one.

Can't prove a negative, basic science.

As far as your sarcastic dragon theory goes, many can explain why your car starts... So its really a terrible example....

Not really....any reason that you can come up for why my car starts, well my dragon did it.

Also, if you are trying to say that because God is invisible it doesn't exists, then I better stop believing in oxygen, gravity, natural gas...

I'm not saying invisible things don't exist, but when something is visible you have a basic proof of existence.  You can test for all those things, there is no test for god's existence & if he exists, then he certainly has chosen to hide himself well.

 

What is considered pseudo science now, was the basis for our modern science. Take astrology for instance....

 Astrology is still considered to be psuedo science.

Since we know that the big bang was real, and we know the universe is connected, the next supernatural discovery that science will clear up is a creator!

Great!  I will be waiting!

Something started the creation of the universe. Or am I to believe that something can be created by nothing?

If the universe had to be created, then who created the creator?  Or am I supposed to believe that nothing existed EXCEPT for him.

If that's the case you should have no problem believing that Jesus was born from a virgin.

LOL!  I am guessing all the other virgin births were real too?

Also, you proved my point about how people automatically associate God with religion, by trying to discredit me by saying my book....

Ok, how do you know of god & how do you know how he feels if not for a book?  Where does your god come from?

[/quote]

[Tennesseer]

Exposure to many faiths can also convince many, me included, none of them have it right.

[Deleted]

There's that too. 

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Angle, first, what I was talking about with astrology is that it, and things like alchemy are the basis for our modern science. Again read the book I was telling you about, "Science A Four Thousand Year History".

Again, when something can be explained, like your car starting, just because you are unable to understand it doesn't mean others don't. There is no argument, it happens for a reason and is fully understood. What you are proving with your dragon theory is that if you don't understand something you choose to close your mind to possibilities, simply because of your personal beliefs

Again, we(humans) have done tests on the universe and it all leads to the creation at a single point. Our tests prove everything is connected through proven theory such as the Higgs Boson. So, just like gravity, oxygen, and natural gas where at one point invisible and unknown, through scientific processes we have made their discovery. Again, you are choosing what part of the scientific process you believe in, simply because of your personal beliefs.

I'm not leaping to any conclusions about God's existence, our existence proves God's existence. See the quote by Alfred Russell Wallace above for further details.

The fact you understand you can't prove a negative should at least lead you to the conclusion that something had to create the universe. Since I believe the creator is in fact energy, not a man in the sky, then yes, I would expect you to understand that the creator is the starting point of everything. My guess would be that it created itself and expanded and multiplied.(Like spontaneous combustion)

Our God is what the Magi described as Wise God, and it's the same God that spoke to Abraham. This is why the Magi knew about the prophecy of the north star when the Jewish people didn't. It's the same God that has been pushing us to understanding through knowledge and scientific process. A process that has been developing for thousands of years and has been influenced by every civilization that has ever existed.

Thus, the reason I think it's important for children to be taught about different cultures and religions. It's also why I believe that JC is, in fact, the Messiah that will eventually bring peace to earth. Not because he will return like in Islamic and Christian scripture, but because of his actions while he was here on Earth. AKA, in the historical sense like Hebrew scripture is.

In other words, God comes from many books and from all four corners of the Earth, and most importantly, from love, knowledge, and understanding.

For the record, if you want to believe there is no God it's fine with me. I know I won't change your mind, and that's fine, it really doesn't matter to me I'm not here to "save" anyone. With the sheer amount of scientific minds that have came to the conclusion over the millenniums that there is a God, and with how many in recent years have turned to God, it tells me everything. You can argue with me til your blue in the face about dragon theory or whatever else you want. Unless you can prove there is no God, I will choose to have an open mind and listen to the people who are responsible for basically everything we know about the sciences and the universe.