|
Post by lakhota on Jan 22, 2011 19:39:19 GMT -5
Margaret Sanger sounds like a savvy lady! "I cannot refrain from saying that women must come to recognize there is some function of womanhood other than being a child-bearing machine."
|
|
|
Post by traelin0 on Jan 22, 2011 19:39:56 GMT -5
traelin0, Sorry you are right, it isn't about you. It is about "lowering the aggregate net production of the nation, ..." Maybe if we developed some five years plans to go with forced childbirth, we could really get somewhere. I still love ya man! LOL I have enjoyed this conversation immensely. For the most part it remained above-board and I can't think of many abortion debates which were that way.
|
|
|
Post by traelin0 on Jan 22, 2011 19:40:49 GMT -5
Now now Lakhota my friend, LOL.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,508
|
Post by billisonboard on Jan 22, 2011 19:43:10 GMT -5
traelin0, Sorry you are right, it isn't about you. It is about "lowering the aggregate net production of the nation, ..." Maybe if we developed some five years plans to go with forced childbirth, we could really get somewhere. I still love ya man! LOL I have enjoyed this conversation immensely. For the most part it remained above-board and I can't think of many abortion debates which were that way. Hear you. Abortion has to be one of the more difficult topics.
|
|
|
Post by traelin0 on Jan 22, 2011 19:44:04 GMT -5
Hear you. Abortion has to be one of the more difficult topics. Agreed.
|
|
|
Post by lakhota on Jan 22, 2011 19:48:08 GMT -5
Serious question: Why should men have any say in abortion rights?
|
|
|
Post by traelin0 on Jan 22, 2011 19:51:05 GMT -5
Serious question: Why should men have any say in abortion rights? Serious answer, and then I have to run. Because we are 50% of the DNA of the unborn. Good topic, Lakhota. Thanks for posting this thread.
|
|
deziloooooo
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 16:22:04 GMT -5
Posts: 10,723
|
Post by deziloooooo on Jan 22, 2011 19:58:02 GMT -5
Wow 9 pages , so much posted, while not reading any, quick scan of a few was all I could take, think any one is listening to what others are saying or just a "can't wait till I get my chance, where is that key board." Anyone who has been paying attention want to do a summation. Wait this calls for a poll, what fo you think?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 15, 2024 14:49:19 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2011 20:19:45 GMT -5
I have 2 preachers in my family. As you can imagine abortion does come up every now & then. I tell them the same thing every time. I can not get pregnant, nor can I ever deliver a baby. To help pass a law about something that (at best) I know little about would be stupid on my part. I have know opinion on the subject. They always come back that it's murder of kids. My come back to that is that I don't tell others how to live their lives & I would be resentfully of them telling me how to live mine. They have they're reasons for it & who am I to try to make them raise a child that they didn't want without supply them with the money that they are going to be spending. If a person truly feels that they should interfere with someone else's decision then they should be willing to write a check for the $187,000 (or whatever the estimate is) that it costs to raise a child. Just my non opinion. (I rarely go to family gatherings because it's not exceptable behavior to hold a family members head in the toilet & flush several times .
|
|
|
Post by lakhota on Jan 22, 2011 20:25:58 GMT -5
oldtex, I like your logic!
|
|
|
Post by lakhota on Jan 22, 2011 20:27:24 GMT -5
Thank you... and you're welcome. I just hope it stays reasonably civil.
|
|
Sammy
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 17:01:55 GMT -5
Posts: 3,335
|
Post by Sammy on Jan 22, 2011 20:40:18 GMT -5
Deziloo, this is the Roe V. Wade thread. Why are you opening another one??
|
|
Sammy
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 17:01:55 GMT -5
Posts: 3,335
|
Post by Sammy on Jan 22, 2011 20:45:49 GMT -5
;D Old Tex, how do you hold the head in the toilet and flush at the same time. Which hands do you use, how do you position the victim, I mean person? Desi, are you reading?
|
|
deziloooooo
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 16:22:04 GMT -5
Posts: 10,723
|
Post by deziloooooo on Jan 22, 2011 20:46:19 GMT -5
Deziloo, this is the Roe V. Wade thread. Why are you opening another one?? Go read , it is a poll, in favor or not in favor. Think of it as a companion piece. You have 9 pages here, who knows were every one stands especially in my scanning. I did scan. Seems few are really remembering what one has said, just getting their shots in with few understanding or wanting to, their/ others views and why.
|
|
Sammy
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 17:01:55 GMT -5
Posts: 3,335
|
Post by Sammy on Jan 22, 2011 20:54:47 GMT -5
So, board etiquette means nothing to Dezi....... Ok, I just made a note of that.
|
|
|
Post by ed1066 on Jan 22, 2011 21:01:12 GMT -5
Do you mean "fathers"?
|
|
formerexpat
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 12:09:05 GMT -5
Posts: 4,079
|
Post by formerexpat on Jan 22, 2011 21:09:40 GMT -5
[/size]
Population by state listed:
2.9m, 4.5m, 4.8m, 3.0m and 9.7m.
Being progressive has nothing to do with it. Being located to be able to help the most citizens as possible does though.
[/size]
Interesting - you are for government health care when it's convenient for your views but against government intervention in your health care when it does not?
|
|
formerexpat
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 12:09:05 GMT -5
Posts: 4,079
|
Post by formerexpat on Jan 22, 2011 21:13:38 GMT -5
[/size] Because women continue to be irresponsible and continue to get pregnant either through neglecting to properly take their birth control or not being adamant about the "no glove, no love" policy.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,508
|
Post by billisonboard on Jan 22, 2011 21:19:50 GMT -5
[/size] Because women continue to be irresponsible and continue to get pregnant either through neglecting to properly take their birth control or not being adamant about the "no glove, no love" policy. [/quote] Men need to think before they bed her, "If she ends up pregnant, is she capable of killing my kid."
|
|
Mad Dawg Wiccan
Administrator
Rest in Peace
Only Bites Whiners
Joined: Jan 12, 2011 20:40:24 GMT -5
Posts: 9,693
|
Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on Jan 22, 2011 21:24:51 GMT -5
Serious question: Why should men have any say in abortion rights?
Because until cloning techniques are perfected, men share equal responsibility in getting a woman pregnant.
|
|
deziloooooo
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 16:22:04 GMT -5
Posts: 10,723
|
Post by deziloooooo on Jan 22, 2011 21:28:17 GMT -5
Man after reading some of these comments..if there ever was a need for a poll, this is the topic.
|
|
formerexpat
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 12:09:05 GMT -5
Posts: 4,079
|
Post by formerexpat on Jan 22, 2011 21:35:08 GMT -5
[/size]
We're too busy thinking "I hope she doesn't remember my name".
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,508
|
Post by billisonboard on Jan 22, 2011 21:38:13 GMT -5
[/size] We're too busy thinking "I hope she doesn't remember my name". [/quote] Which is why it is absurd for us to have a say if she decides to off any result.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 15, 2024 14:49:19 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2011 21:43:49 GMT -5
Did you read that link?
Did you read your link trae? ... i don't think so... or you are reading a lot into what isn't there...
And yes, it is relevant... just because someone who started something (wrote the pledge) ... has an idea that is not the same as mine, doesn't mean that i don't agree with the use and goals of those using/fulfilling it today...
|
|
Gardening Grandma
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:39:46 GMT -5
Posts: 17,962
|
Post by Gardening Grandma on Jan 22, 2011 21:49:22 GMT -5
"Because we are 50% of the DNA of the unborn."
Not good enough a reason. Women are the orher 50% so that's a wash. Men have a CHOICE. They can CHOOSE whether to be involved in a crisis pregnancy. Access to safe/legal abortion gives women something closer to parity. that's why most opposers of choice are male and most women support the right (even when it's a choice they would not personallt make)
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 15, 2024 14:49:19 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2011 21:54:23 GMT -5
Here is the problem trae... the page you link, and what you quote, give sensationalized 'exerpts' and ' sythnthesis that just does not exist... for instance: Your link says Sanger said: The purpose in promoting birth control was "to create a race of thoroughbreds," she wrote in the Birth Control Review, Nov. 1921 (p. 2)
But it gives it no context. A Dr.Kempf, a progressive physician, actually first used the term in the early 20s arguing for state endowment of maternal and infant care clinics. In 1922, Sanger wrote the following: Society must make life worth the living and the refining for the individual by conditioning him to love and to seek the love-object in a manner that reflects a constructive effect upon his fellow-men and by giving him suitable opportunities. The virility of the automatic apparatus is destroyed by excessive gormandizing or hunger, by excessive wealth or poverty, by excessive work or idleness, by sexual abuse or intolerant prudishness. The noblest and most difficult art of all is the raising of human thoroughbreds (Sanger, 1922 [1969]).
This is the context of that quote... Do you see how lack of context puts a whole different spin on things?
The link also quotes a lot of OTHER people talking about her, but not many of HER words..
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 15, 2024 14:49:19 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2011 22:02:37 GMT -5
"Interesting - you are for government health care when it's convenient for your views but against government intervention in your health care when it does not? "
I think the government should regulate insurance, and hospitals and pharma etc... I think they SHOULD regulate corporations and entities which might get in the way of my rights to life, libery and the pursuit of happiness... i don't they they should regulate ME...
See how that is... they SHOULD regulate corporations, so that corporations can't somehow interfere with my ability to access care... they should regulate hospitals so that they use safe methods that don't cause me to catch something while i'm there, they should regulate pharma to make sure my medicine won't kill me... (etc. etc.)... but they don't regulate ME... i make my own decisions... they just help me to make sure i have the best information, equal access and safety as i make my choice...
|
|
Loopdilou
Well-Known Member
AKA Mrs. Dark Honor
Joined: Feb 27, 2012 19:41:33 GMT -5
Posts: 1,365
|
Post by Loopdilou on Jan 22, 2011 22:12:17 GMT -5
Careful, Op. He'll come back with, "But they're regulating how much money you give them!!!"
|
|
|
Post by marjar on Jan 22, 2011 23:01:18 GMT -5
[/size] I'm not a prude by any stretch of the imagination but kindergarten, really?? ABC's, numbers, finger painting then sex ed? We started in 5th grade and had health class in each year of middle school where we would go over the subject as well. I think the biggest mistake is that they really only focused from a facts perspective [i.e. cock & balls - all hail Adam Sandler , vagina & boobies, sperm & ovaries] but never from the realities of sex, including appropriate protection. I think the "health" classes we had from 5th through 8th grades were okay but the realities of sex and protections should be discussed / taught in high school, starting in 9th grade since that is most likely the time when they will explore. That's my opinion at least.[/quote] When I gave birth, almost 27 years ago, there was a 12 year old in the next labor room - she wasn't visiting. Many kids are sexually active by the time they are in middle school.
|
|
|
Post by traelin0 on Jan 23, 2011 0:02:43 GMT -5
Did you read that link? Did you read your link trae? ... i don't think so... or you are reading a lot into what isn't there... And yes, it is relevant... just because someone who started something (wrote the pledge) ... has an idea that is not the same as mine, doesn't mean that i don't agree with the use and goals of those using/fulfilling it today... The pledge of allegiance is barely tangetially related to a topic about abortion. And yes, I read the links. Sanger has on many occasions, including in the links I posted, linked herself to the eugenist movement in that she said in no uncertain terms she has the same goals. I don't need to read into anything when she says it. I believe your point is that Sanger in your eyes may have been skewed in her belief system; but that you don't necessarily hold the same philosophy when you support Planned Parenthood. And to that I respond, "The ends do NOT justify the means." An evil woman who founded an organization to reach her goals is still evil, and in the best case, even the initial proponents should do a double-take.
|
|