Advice on requesting a laptop on free-cycle

[Opti]

I've been on a free-cycle list for a few months and I see people request things all the time. I've yet to do a request and I'm looking for advice on how to phrase it. I see people give away computers fairly regularly although most are even older than my 7 year old laptop. I'm unemployed and $50 for a disk drive is a hardship for me at this time.

Is there a way to phrase my request to encourage people to consider giving me a laptop with the hard drive just scrubbed not removed? Has technology advanced so far that people are sifting old computer hard drives for info? ( Many years ago when I worked for a telephone company we had to send away to a company to try to retrieve some files after a disk crash in a PC. I'd be surprised if there's lots of freeware out there that does this but I could be very uninformed too. Back then I think we got less than 25% of the files recovered so its not something I'm inclined to do even if I had thieving tendencies. )

So what would you advise? If someone has memory compatible for an IBM Thinkpad T40 I could give up some groceries and pay for shipping.

[Deleted]

We have two broken computers sitting in our office area that we replaced. Mine, I think, is just missing some part of the operating system. But I don't have the know-how to scrub it out. We are going to remove both hard drives and hit them with the hammer a lot of times.

I would never give away a computer with a hard drive in it. Someone good could indeed retrieve information. How much information I don't know. But my Quicken account is on there with all the log-ins for my accounts. If they got only enough for one, that would be nightmare enough for me.

[Opti]

At one of my jobs the Windows guy would just take a large magnet to it.
Me, I'd probably do the equivalent of c> cd \; format
On the other hand I only log into one financial account from my laptop and the password isn't stored on it and I could have them reset it if I were really worried.

I think the fear of people recovering info is much larger than the reality.
Does this mean most folks have forgotten you can reformat hard drives?
Not sure what works on Windows, but I would remove all the files and then if really worried write multiple copies of the same file to disk and then
do the remove again.

In UNIX, it would look like this for the file deletion:
$ cd /; rm -rf *
for windows some version of rem * works, but I'd need to look it up and
I can only use one window at a time.

[TheOtherMe]

I have a friend that runs the freecycle group where I live. She gave me the advice that she never answers a wanted post, especially one asking for something large that can be turned around and sold.

[Opti]

Jan 21, 2011 18:27:34 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

I have a friend that runs the freecycle group where I live. She gave me the advice that she never answers a wanted post, especially one asking for something large that can be turned around and sold.

Interesting. I had been scanning the ads, but in my free-cycle group so many people post "Wanted" I was thinking of giving it a try.

Now I'm thinking I might look to see what old laptops go for on Ebay. I discovered old Western Electric Trimline phones were out of my price range when mine died.

[Opti]

Jan 21, 2011 19:02:22 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

You can reformat them, and the data can still be recovered too. Until the reformatted data has been overwritten, it is still potentially retrievable with the right utilities, and it doesn't take a hacker. I could probably accomplish this and I am a 50 year old clerk.

I'm not a Windows OS fan, and I couldn't do it without lots of effort.
I know Windows is less secure and has numerous issues which is why I'd probably do the reformat and then write a file to disk just until the disk was as full as it was prior or just short of running out of disk space and then do the reformat. I can see why people remove and destroy the disks - its easier.

[TheOtherMe]

I just gave my old laptop to my niece and her hubby. It cost them $50 for a new hard drive and I installed the operating system for them since I had the original discs.

[TD2K]

Go to a reputable site like PCworld and look for a diskwipe program, that will overwrite the hard disk.

[Deleted]

Yes, but the OP doesn't want to overwrite the hard disk. He wants to know why people are so paranoid about donating computers with the hard disk in them. I'm the one who wants to just smash my hard disk to smithereens. It would also somehow be satisfying since the thing died after only 3 years.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"Yes, but the OP doesn't want to overwrite the hard disk. He wants to know why people are so paranoid about donating computers with the hard disk in them. I'm the one who wants to just smash my hard disk to smithereens. It would also somehow be satisfying since the thing died after only 3 years.":::...

Do a search for Geek Squad horror stories. When you have tech savvy guys doing menial work for lousy pay, BAD stuff happens.

I agree that the data has to be written over, not just erased. Write over it several times with a very large file set, and then reformat, and you should be OK.

[mithrin]

Stories have been going around for years that even formatting--rewriting--formatting again aren't enough. People claim the FBI has equipment that can read the residual magnetic fields to reconstruct files that have been overwritten multiple times. There are plenty of programs out there that offer users 'secure erase' by overwriting the entire hard drive multiple times with random binary sequences to make files truly unrecoverable.

Unfortunately, many people lack the know-how to really use these kinds of programs--the biggest hurdle is that you cannot use the program to erase the partition of the HD that contains the operating system (and the program itself). Since this is the partition that by default also contains the users "My Document" folder, it's actually the most important one to erase. To use these programs to completely wipe a drive would require plugging the HD into another computer and running the program from that computer (but most people don't know how to connect their HD to another computer externally. The other way is to get rid of as many files as possible without taking out the OS, partition the remaining part of the HD as a different drive (D: drive) and run the eraser program on the partition. Then you need to install your OS and eraser program onto the cleaned partition, and use it to erase the original partition (C: drive). Then you can format the D: drive to remove the OS. Those files will still be recoverable, but since all that would have been on there is the basic OS install + eraser program, there is no personal info to worry about.

So the reluctance that most people have to passing along their old HD is because they have some idea of the risks, but don't know how to actually truly erase the drive. Even for those of us who do know how to erase a drive, popping the drive out of a laptop takes seconds, while secure erasure takes many hours. It's just easier to pop out the drive and physically destroy it than spending the time to clean it, plus if you have the know-how to confidently clean the drive, you may prefer to use the drive as additional storage for your other computers.

Bottom line, people either don't know how to clean their drive and are scared to pass it along, or they do know how, but would rather keep the drive for their own use, or don't see why they should spend all that extra time to give the drive to a stranger for free. Personally, if I was passing a computer down to a friend/relative, I MIGHT spend the time to clean the drive and include it. Or I might just suggest they buy a new one, since they will likely be able to get a larger drive that doesn't have several years of use on it already fairly cheaply. For a stranger via freecycle? No, I'm not going to the extra trouble.

[Deleted]

I gave you Karma, Mithrin, because you explained perfectly why I would rather smash the drive to smithereens than give it to a stranger on CraigsList.

[TheOtherMe]

Excellent post, mithrin. I have smashed hard drives before and I will do it again.

[schildi]

Jan 23, 2011 16:14:22 GMT -5 mithrin said:

Unfortunately, many people lack the know-how to really use these kinds of programs--the biggest hurdle is that you cannot use the program to erase the partition of the HD that contains the operating system (and the program itself).

Mithrin, that CAN be done. There is software out there (even free software) that will securely erase (i.e. overwrite multiple times) all empty (free) space / sectors on a hard drive that contains the OS. All you need to do is delete all data, empty the recycle bin and then run that software on the empty space. Much easier and quicker than what you have described.
Another easier solution than what you are suggesting is to use a utility that runs under DOS, run that from a bootable CD (or floppy, if you still have one) and wipe everything (including the OS) that way.

I have done it both ways, and both ways are as safe as what you are suggesting, just much quicker an easier. Especially the first one can be used by even novices.

[mithrin]

Jan 23, 2011 20:14:08 GMT -5 schildi said:

Jan 23, 2011 16:14:22 GMT -5 mithrin said:

Unfortunately, many people lack the know-how to really use these kinds of programs--the biggest hurdle is that you cannot use the program to erase the partition of the HD that contains the operating system (and the program itself).

Mithrin, that CAN be done. There is software out there (even free software) that will securely erase (i.e. overwrite multiple times) all empty (free) space / sectors on a hard drive that contains the OS. All you need to do is delete all data, empty the recycle bin and then run that software on the empty space. Much easier and quicker than what you have described.
Another easier solution than what you are suggesting is to use a utility that runs under DOS, run that from a bootable CD (or floppy, if you still have one) and wipe everything (including the OS) that way.

I have done it both ways, and both ways are as safe as what you are suggesting, just much quicker an easier. Especially the first one can be used by even novices.

Schildi,

I personally wouldn't use the program that wipes the EMPTY space while leaving existing files alone, especially on a Windows OS. Windows just creates way to many innocuous seeming system files that contain person info. It's easy to delete the My Documents folder, but what about all the registry entries and odd files that so many programs throw off that might include your registration info? I don't expect a novice to be able to actually trim down a Windows OS to only essential files without also deleting something critical and crashing the OS. For my own peace of mind, I would at least format the drive first, reinstall the OS, and then run the program to wipe the empty space. At least that way I can start with a clean OS install, and either leave any personal info on the registration pages blank, or put in John Doe info instead.

I do agree that wiping a drive CAN be done (and fairly easily), I just understand why most people aren't willing to do it for Craigslist/Freecycle. Besides the time issue, wiping your drive means you don't get to take a hammer to it; and let's be honest, who doesn't think that's fun?

[schildi]

Jan 24, 2011 0:44:56 GMT -5 mithrin said:

Schildi,

I personally wouldn't use the program that wipes the EMPTY space while leaving existing files alone, especially on a Windows OS. Windows just creates way to many innocuous seeming system files that contain person info. It's easy to delete the My Documents folder, but what about all the registry entries and odd files that so many programs throw off that might include your registration info? I don't expect a novice to be able to actually trim down a Windows OS to only essential files without also deleting something critical and crashing the OS. For my own peace of mind, I would at least format the drive first, reinstall the OS, and then run the program to wipe the empty space. At least that way I can start with a clean OS install, and either leave any personal info on the registration pages blank, or put in John Doe info instead.

I do agree that wiping a drive CAN be done (and fairly easily), I just understand why most people aren't willing to do it for Craigslist/Freecycle. Besides the time issue, wiping your drive means you don't get to take a hammer to it; and let's be honest, who doesn't think that's fun?

Yeah, I would not be too worried about registry entries and such. I agree that it's not worth it to do for freecycle and / or craigslist in most cases.
I have taken a HDD to target practice before, lots of fun!

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"plus if you have the know-how to confidently clean the drive, you may prefer to use the drive as additional storage for your other computers.":::...

This is me and my DF. I've never given away a hard drive, we have quite a few sitting in the closet. But they are smaller than keeping the whole computer. Of course they become obsolete after a while. What the heck am I going to do with a 30 gig EIDE drive. I also have 4 gig and 9 gig SCSI barracudas.