Revelations: Truths Revealed

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

The 90 yr old preacher that used the bible and Revelations to predict the end of the world has now recanted his statements and apologized. Claims now that it is impossible to know when Jesus Christ will come back. It's funny because for me, personally, I don't see how he left. The guy is everywhere and it's been 2000 yrs since he was here.

Harold Camping apologizes for failed Rapture prediction
latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/03/harold-camping-apologizes-for-failed-rapture-prediction.html

Harold Camping, the Northern California preacher whose radio ministry spent millions of dollars last year predicting a fiery apocalypse that failed to materialize has apologized to his followers in an open letter, saying “we humbly acknowledge we were wrong” and “we have no new evidence pointing to another date for the end of the world.”

Camping, 90, had hyped May 21, 2011 as Judgment Day through billboards and constant chatter on his Oakland-based Family Radio International. On that day, he prophesied, the Rapture would redeem believers, while heathens would walk the Earth in misery until a fiery finish five months later.

Some followers emptied their bank accounts and quit their jobs to help spread the word. Camping’s prophecy spurred equally passionate parodies, including Rapture parties and the gleeful skyward release of inflatable dolls.

But the date came and went.

A stunned Camping, who suffered a mild stroke shortly afterward, said he was “flabbergasted” but maintained that the world still would still end -- in October.
It didn’t.

In the letter posted Thursday on Family Radio’s website, the preacher called the May 21 campaign “an astounding event” for the awareness it raised about the Bible and Jesus Christ.

Despite that positive spin, Camping called his prediction a “sinful statement” and asked God’s forgiveness.

“Family Radio has no interest in even considering another date,” his letter said. “We have learned the very painful lesson that all of creation is in God’s hands and he will end time in his time, not ours! We humbly recognize that God may not tell his people the date when Christ will return, any more than he tells anyone the date they will die physically.”

Other examples of failed revelations predictions.. The list is so long I don't even want to post it...

List of dates predicted for apocalyptic events
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events

It's funny because the way I understand it, JC became a problem for Rome because he wanted FREEDOM and was a little Zealous about it..

So the way I see it is a bit more like this. (Mel is crazy now but this is a classic)



Thoughts?

[Jaguar]

Did not Jesus himself say "no one but my Father knows when the time is suppose to be". So then how is it possible for anyone to predict when only the Father knows ?

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Exactly Sug!

From the list of predictions on Wiki. (Bold is just to highlight a pattern not to be offensive or rude)

Date (BCE)

634, Romans, Many Romans feared that the city would be destroyed in the 120th year of its founding. There was a myth that 12 eagles had revealed to Romulus a mystical number representing the lifetime of Rome, and some early Romans hypothesized that each eagle represented 10 years.

389, Romans, Some Romans believed that the mystical number revealed to Romulus represented the number of days in a year, so they expected Rome to be destroyed around 365 AUC (389 BCE)

Date (CE)

66-70, Essenes, It is believed this sect of Jewish ascetics saw the Jewish revolt against the Romans in 66-70 as the final end-time battle.

2nd century, Montanists, Members of the Montanist movement, founded in 156, predicted that Jesus would return sometime during their lifetimes.

247, Various Christians, The Roman government dramatically increased its persecution of Christians in this year, so much so that many Christians believed that the End had arrived.

(300 Constantine unites the Pagan and Abrahamic religions. Was it Constantine that really started it though?)

375-400, Martin of Tours, Stated that the world would end before 400. Writing ""There is no doubt that the Antichrist has already been born. Firmly established already in his early years, he will, after reaching maturity, achieve supreme power."

500 Hippolytus of Rome, Sextus Julius Africanus, Irenaeus, All three predicted Jesus would return in the year 500.

992-995, Various Christians, Good Friday coincided with the Feast of the Annunciation; this had long been believed to be the event that would bring forth the Antichrist, and thus the end-times, within 3 years.

1000, Jan 1, Pope Sylvester II, Various Christians in Europe had predicted the end of the world on this date, including Pope Sylvester II.

1033. Various Christians, Some believed this to be the 1000th anniversary of the death and resurrection of Jesus, and his second coming was anticipated.

1184, Various Christians, Various Christian prophets foresaw the Antichrist coming in 1184.

Thoughts?

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

One thing we know for sure is that JC wanted everybody to love everybody, and, he believed in ONE god that was taught in the Hebrew Bible.

God, Love, and Freedom?

Messianic Age
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Age

Description of the Messianic Era
According to Jewish tradition, the Messianic Era will be one of global peace and harmony, an era free of strife and hardship, and one conducive to the furtherment of the knowledge of the Creator. The theme of the Jewish Messiah ushering in an era of global peace is encapsulated in two of the most famous scriptural passages from the Book of Isaiah:

They shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks; nation will not lift sword against nation and they will no longer study warfare. (Isaiah 2:4)

The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the viper's nest. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea. (Isaiah 11:6-9)

In his Mishneh Torah, Maimonides describes the Messianic Era:
"And at that time there will be no hunger or war, no jealousy or rivalry. For the good will be plentiful, and all delicacies available as dust.

The entire occupation of the world will be only to know God... the people Israel will be of great wisdom; they will perceive the esoteric truths and comprehend their Creator's wisdom as is the capacity of man. As it is written (Isaiah 11:9): "For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of God, as the waters cover the sea." "[1]

Advent of the Messianic Era

According to the Talmud,[2] the Midrash,[3] and the ancient Kabbalistic work, the Zohar,[4] the Messiah must arrive before the Year 6000 from the time of creation. (According to Orthodox Jewish belief, the Hebrew calendar dates to the time of creation. The year 2011 corresponds to the year 5771 from creation).

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

The thing I like to point out to some of my friends, is that it dosn't say in the Torah how long between the Messiah and the Messianic Age...

[ktunes]

people will always try to "guess" when Christ will return...as sug said that is only for the Father to know...

however, Christ did give signs of His coming and the events in europe and the middle east are definitely steering the ship in that direction...

[Virgil Showlion]

however, Christ did give signs of His coming and the events in europe and the middle east are definitely steering the ship in that direction...

[Deleted]

Hmm.. I did not see this thread earlier. I had tunnel vision this morning, I guess, when I signed in.

All things coming back in alignment preface to the return of Christ is going to happen and is happening even now. God will begin speaking to those with ears and eyes to see and to know what to do in this season. Many who have an ear and eye will lean their head to the side in question and curiosity thinking what is being heard and seen, odd and out of place, but it will not be..

I agree with the word of God.. No man knows the hour of Christ's return.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

IDK, I still say he didn't leave and that he seems to be everywhere and the topic of much discussion. Remember, it was JC himself that said the WE are ALL the sons and daughters of the living father.

THE ROMAN ARMY’S SECRET CHRISTIANS
www.history.ca/ontv/titledetails.aspx?titleid=117598

Christianity is thought of as a religion of peace. But this episode reveals something different. The film begins in a cave near Jericho where Christian symbols have been found, next to mysterious carvings of the Roman Legion. We then track down these symbols from Megiddo to Pompeii to Hadrian's Wall on the English/Scottish border to Dura Europa in Syria. What we discover is that the Roman army didn't oppress Christianity - it spread it! The religion of love was spread by the greatest army the world had ever seen.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Come on Virg, you have read enough of what I have posted.. What do you think this is all about???

Mar 18, 2012 16:56:59 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

IDK, I still say he didn't leave and that he seems to be everywhere and the topic of much discussion. Remember, it was JC himself that said the WE are ALL the sons and daughters of the living father.

THE ROMAN ARMY’S SECRET CHRISTIANS
www.history.ca/ontv/titledetails.aspx?titleid=117598

Christianity is thought of as a religion of peace. But this episode reveals something different. The film begins in a cave near Jericho where Christian symbols have been found, next to mysterious carvings of the Roman Legion. We then track down these symbols from Megiddo to Pompeii to Hadrian's Wall on the English/Scottish border to Dura Europa in Syria. What we discover is that the Roman army didn't oppress Christianity - it spread it! The religion of love was spread by the greatest army the world had ever seen.

[ktunes]

What we discover is that the Roman army didn't oppress Christianity - it spread it! The religion of love was spread by the greatest army the world had ever seen.

one thing to keep in mind is that not all who profess to be christian, are ...see matthew 7...

also the bible indicates that after a few short years, the gospel that Christ taught began to be corrupted...see galatians 1...the first hundred years after Christ's death were interesting for his followers...the message changed from what Christ taught, to about Christ Himself...

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

one thing to keep in mind is that not all who profess to be christian, are

Couldn't agree more.

also the bible indicates that after a few short years, the gospel that Christ taught began to be corrupted

Couldn't agree more. See the Gospel of Thomas thread for more on that.

As far as corrupted you mean like this?

APOLOGY: Please note that the following information is not intended to offend another and this would also be contrary to Christian teaching. It should also be noted that over the centuries many wonderful Christians from the Catholic Church have done outstanding missionary and other excellent Christian work. There are no doubt millions of people in the Catholic Church that are not aware of the things below and that is no reflection on their faith or love for Christ. This site is NOT anti-catholic and we love ALL people from all denominations.

Roman Catholic Ten Commandments
www.the-ten-commandments.org/romancatholic-tencommandments.html


The Gospel of Thomas

Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

This guy sure hated poverty. Almost like he wanted to FREE all SLAVES and had a PLAN to carry it all out.

[Deleted]

We have heard these predictions for years. But, the Bible clearly says that no man knows the hour, day or time/

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Exactly.

As I look around I see KFC, McDonald's, Nike, Ford, and US cinima growing across Asia., China is getting Disney world and there is high end western brands all over Shanghai and Hong Kong. Wages have risen as globalization has spread around the world and more and more people are rising out of poverty.

With some more love and more cash, more people will get to where we are. Then everyone can service their own economies and live in some kind of balance where they can feel somewhat safe like we do here.

So I can say for certain that I don't think the end is nigh, nor would I assume that the path we are on will end either; considering the results that are being produced.

God Bless...

[Deleted]

I think the world and every civilization has pretty much been on the brink of collapse since the beginning. Huge dynasties and monarchies that that should have lasted and lasted didn't. So, the one thing we know for sure is that the world is constantly changing.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Fair enough. I have a few questions for you though...

When has a military strategy been to build up other nations so that they are equal to you?

As humans, we can walk better with two legs. Why can't the world??

At this point I wouldn't listen to the media that is always looking for the decline of America. It is possible that a short term loss in jobs will lead to long term gain in prosperity for everyone. We are not talking about sections of the planet, this is the whole world that is involved in business now, and everyone is growing. ( notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=perspectives )

SO if China and the USA co exist as superpowers, what are we looking at?

[lilyofcourse]

I have heard many many different predictions of Christ's return over the span of my life. At this point in my life and spiritual life I can honestly say, even so, come quickly.

People look to the signs and get scared and upset. I mean yeah I can understand that when thinking of those I love who are not ready. But for me, I get excited. Like a kid knowing what they are getting Christmas morning. I long for heaven with an ache in my heart.

No one knows when Christ will split the Eastern sky. All we can do is continue to work the fields and be ready.

[femmefatale]

Mar 25, 2012 19:46:16 GMT -5 lilyofcourse said:

I have heard many many different predictions of Christ's return over the span of my life. At this point in my life and spiritual life I can honestly say, even so, come quickly.

People look to the signs and get scared and upset. I mean yeah I can understand that when thinking of those I love who are not ready. But for me, I get excited. Like a kid knowing what they are getting Christmas morning. I long for heaven with an ache in my heart.

No one knows when Christ will split the Eastern sky. All we can do is continue to work the fields and be ready.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

At this point in my life and spiritual life I can honestly say, even so, come quickly.

??

Personally, when it's my time, it's my time. I'm not afraid to meet my maker.

However, Suicide is a sin. Financial suicide is a sin that you will may many penance for. So I'm not going to dwell on the end and live in poverty. I'm going to do what I have to to make sure that my grandchildren's, grandchildren are looked after and operate under the fact that only God knows when the end will be.

Thanks to the business world that exists now my family doesn't have to worry about having to flee. My Grandpa was the first one on that side of my family to be born in this Country. They didn't have time to sit around and worry about the end in the old days...

[lilyofcourse]

Mar 25, 2012 23:48:49 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

At this point in my life and spiritual life I can honestly say, even so, come quickly.

??

Personally, when it's my time, it's my time. I'm not afraid to meet my maker.

However, Suicide is a sin. Financial suicide is a sin that you will may many penance for. So I'm not going to dwell on the end and live in poverty. I'm going to do what I have to to make sure that my grandchildren's, grandchildren are looked after and operate under the fact that only God knows when the end will be.

Thanks to the business world that exists now my family doesn't have to worry about having to flee. My Grandpa was the first one on that side of my family to be born in this Country. They didn't have time to sit around and worry about the end in the old days...

Ummm.. Maybe you should read the whole book of Revelation.

Revelation 22:20 He who testifies these things says, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

I would in no way commit suicide and didnt even elude to such a thing.

As for paying penance after you die or Christ comes is not going to happen. Once you die you cant pay penance. Your last chance for forgiveness will be in your last breath. And since we never know when that will be, we should make sure to keep our soul sin free. And yes I know we all fall short but for the grace of God. But I also know that sinning, or not sinning is a conscious choice. And we can live a sin free life.

I will do what ever I can to prepare for the future. But in my heart and soul I am so very ready for heaven. And so I say, even so, come, Lord Jesus.

[Deleted]

And we can live a sin free life.

Oh, how I thank God for the benefits of the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the believer's behalf.

Good morning all..

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Or all mankind, depending on how you look at it heart. There is a reason he is the messiah..

Ummm.. Maybe you should read the whole book of Revelation.

Revelation 22:20 He who testifies these things says, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Ah, didn't realize that is what you were getting at lily. Thought there was a reason. Something else to consider...

Jesus in Islam
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam

Muslims believe that Jesus will return to earth near the Day of Judgment to restore justice and to defeat Masih ad-Dajjal ("the false messiah", also known as the Antichrist).[4][5]

Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered to have been a Muslim (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" as commanded by God. Islam rejects the Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God, that he was ever crucified or resurrected, or that he ever atoned for the sins of mankind.

The Quran says that Jesus himself never claimed any of these things, and it furthermore indicates that Jesus will deny having ever claimed divinity at the Last Judgment, and God will vindicate him.[6]

The Quran emphasizes that Jesus was a mortal human being who, like all other prophets, had been divinely chosen to spread God's message. Islamic texts forbid the association of partners with God (shirk), emphasizing a strict notion of monotheism (tawhīd).

Numerous titles are given to Jesus in the Quran and in Islamic literature, the most common being al-Masīḥ ("the messiah"). Jesus is also, at times, called "Seal of the Israelite Prophets", because, in general Muslim belief, Jesus was the last prophet sent by God to guide the Children of Israel. Jesus is seen in Islam as a precursor to Muhammad, and is believed by Muslims to have foretold the latter's coming.[5][7]

I'm sorry that you thought I said something towards you and suicide lily. I was talking about how I thought taking care of your finances was one of the most important things to do, considering that Jesus himself wanted freedom and a better life for his people. Now that we have it, we should be thankful for it and try to make sure that we can bless our family for generations because of it.

Like I was saying. I know people whos family members have had everything taken from them and they just keep moving on. The way I see it, it's because in the end we know what God wants us to do, act like JC would have.

[Deleted]

I think the Book of Revelations is good to study to a point. However, i think there needs to be less focus on that and more focus on the here and now in general. I think we get so far focused on the future that sometimes we miss the present.

[Deleted]

Or all mankind, depending on how you look at it heart. There is a reason he is the messiah..

The benefit is realized and made real to those who believe.

John 3:16 -For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

I think we get so far focused on the future that sometimes we miss the present.

I agree with the above. Our future is forever and eternally solid in God. Our present, our journey unfolds daily to that end..

For God -Declared from the beginning the latter end, And from of old that which hath not been done, Saying, 'My counsel doth stand, And all My delight I do.' Isaiah 46:10

11 For I have known the thoughts that I am thinking towards you -- an affirmation of Jehovah; thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give to you posterity and hope. Jeremiah 29

[ktunes]

personally, i think things are equally important...a good portion of the bible is historical, the old saying "hindsight is 20/20"comes to mind...

another good portion of the bible instructs on how to live and inter-personal relationships, hygiene, ethics, etc...

and a large portion towards prophetic events...

so while we have to navigate thru the here and now, i believe God is very interested in the future...

[Deleted]

i believe God is very interested in the future...

I do agree with the above, ktunes.

I do believe our eternal future is extremely important and the events leading up to it.. I think I was more or less thinking and commenting on many who are more focused/imbalanced on going to heaven than fulfilling their purpose in the kingdom of God in the earth..

[thyme4change]

Financial suicide is a sin that you will may many penance for.

huh?

[ktunes]

I do believe our eternal future is extremely important and the events leading up to it.. I think I was more or less thinking and commenting on many who are more focused/imbalanced on going to heaven than fulfilling their purpose in the kingdom of God in the earth..

yes, i get where you're coming from...i just have some very "nontraditional views" when it comes to "traditional religion"...

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

The benefit is realized and made real to those who believe.

One can only hope that everyone can fill the hole in their heart, heart..

Mar 27, 2012 18:17:42 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Financial suicide is a sin that you will may many penance for.

huh?

If you don't look after your money you will pay for it your whole life. Why is that?

i believe God is very interested in the future...

Precisely, now let’s break that down a bit. The idea of ONE God that a lot of us share today was brought to us by in large because of Moses the Israelite and the Exodus. Had he failed, that would have been the end of the Slave religion that has it’s origins in Egypt. But it didn’t and the slaves were freed.

Fast forward to the late 1700’s; Adam Weishaupt and the masons (George Washington and others were Masons) Started a revolution to end SLAVERY of the common (white land owner) man and instill what they thought Jesus/God wanted. The Napoleonic Wars started,

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleonic_Wars

Two years later, the Papal States as a whole were invaded by French forces, who declared a Roman Republic. Pope Pius VI died in exile in France in 1799. The Papal States were restored in June 1800 and Pope Pius VII returned, but the French again invaded in 1808, and this time the remainder of the States of the Church were annexed to France, forming the départements of Tibre andTrasimène.

With the fall of the Napoleonic system in 1814, the Papal States were restored once more. From 1814 until the death of Pope Gregory XVI in 1846, the Popes followed a reactionary policy in the Papal States. For instance, the city of Rome maintained the last Jewish ghetto in Western Europe. There were hopes that this would change when Pope Pius IX was elected to succeed Gregory and began to introduce liberal reforms.

Rewind a bit, and we see that this very Church at its beginnings was the reason for Muhammad to write the Quarn and organized the Gnostics and zealots of the middle east against a Sabbath changing atrocity.

Fast forward a bit to the 1940’s. Had Hitler beat a bunch of Jesus/God loving business men we wouldn’t be here right now. 1947 Israel is created once again, which takes us today. The people that have been the most zealous about the Aberhamic religion are now claming that everyone must fall under their rule. However, the Quarn states that on the day of Judgment it won’t matter if you’re a Jew, Christian or Islamic, that as long as you have accepted god that you have a place in Heaven. So by definition of their own beliefs they have NO right forcing their religion on us, just as we had no right forcing our religion on others.

The thing that both of these religions have always overlooked, that in the OLD book, there is this time.. The Messianic Era.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Age

According to Jewish tradition, the Messianic Era will be one of global peace and harmony, an era free of strife and hardship, and one conducive to the furtherment of the knowledge of the Creator. The theme of the Jewish Messiah ushering in an era of global peace is encapsulated in two of the most famous scriptural passages from the Book of Isaiah:

SO by definition BOTH of the religions that are fighting over that book that MOSES brought out of Egypt, have overlooked the fact that PEACE has been promised to the people because WE were never meant to be ruled in the first place. This is GODs kingdom, not mans, right?

[ktunes]

The idea of ONE God that a lot of us share today was brought to us by in large because of Moses the Israelite and the Exodus.

i think the idea of one God goes back further than moses...you have adam & eve, abel, etc to noah, shem, etc to abram, issac, jacob, etc...

the covenant promises were established with abraham...

and of course, the ideas of one God were corrupted at least back to pre-flood and i would say back to shortly after creation...

and post flood you got right back into it with the whole nimrod, tower of babel incident...

those promises to abraham, and his descendants, are the key...and the question of the day is where are his descendants in the modern world we live in???...i would submit it is not just in the current nation of israel...