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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Feb 13, 2012 7:19:23 GMT -5
Gender Pay Gap? There's An App For That Coming equalpay.challenge.gov/Politico.com reported this week that "The Obama administration recently launched a software development competition designed to help achieve equal pay in the workforce for American women. The competition has several prize categories, including five scholarships to attend an 8-week design and entrepreneurship program. Another winner will get $5,000 from a private nonprofit to help further develop their app." It's called the Equal Pay App Challenge, and here's some information from the competition's website: "Nearly 50 years after President Kennedy signed the Equal Pay Act, on average women are still paid less than their male counterparts for doing comparable jobs – that’s called the pay gap. It means that each time the average woman starts a new job, she’s likely to start from a lower base salary, but it also means that over time the pay gap between her and her male colleagues is likely to become wider and wider. For the average working woman, the pay gap means $150 less in her weekly paycheck, $8,000 less at the end of the year, and $380,000 less over her lifetime. For women of color and women with disabilities, the disparity is even bigger. Your challenge is to use publicly available labor data and other online resources to educate users about the pay gap and to build tools to promote equal pay." Here's an example of how the app it might work for some women, based on these salary data: Enter Your Marital Status: Single Enter whether you work full-time or part-time: Full-time Enter the number of children you have: Zero Do you work in a large U.S. city? Yes Enter your age: Under 30 years old Enter your city of employment below, and the Equal Pay App will report the gender pay gap for your demographic group in your geographic area. A negative (positive) pay gap reflects lower (higher) median full-time salaries for women in your group (single, childless, under 30 years old) compared to your male counterparts. Atlanta: +20% pay gap in favor of women Memphis: +20% pay gap in favor of women New York City: +17% pay gap in favor of women Los Angeles: +12% pay gap in favor of women San Diego: +15% pay gap in favor of women Charlotte: +14% pay gap in favor of women Warning: You have uncovered a significant gender pay gap in favor of women, and your employer is paying single, childless women under 30 years old more than men in that same demographic group. This could be illegal gender discrimination in violation of the Equal Pay Act of 1963, and you should report this potential violation of federal law to your local Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Thanks for using the Equal Pay App.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Feb 13, 2012 7:20:33 GMT -5
Evidence of a New "Reverse Gender Wage Gap" From Time Magazine: www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html "According to a new analysis of 2,000 communities by a market research company, in 147 out of 150 of the biggest cities in the U.S., young women's median full-time salaries are 8% higher than those of the guys in their peer group. In two cities, Atlanta and Memphis, those women are making around 20% more. This squares with earlier research from Queens College, New York, that had suggested that this was happening in major metropoles. But the new study suggests that the gap is bigger than thought, with young women in New York City, Los Angeles and San Diego making 17%, 12% and 15% more than their male peers respectively. And it also holds true even in reasonably small cities like Raleigh Durham, N.C., Charlotte, N.C., (both 14% more) and Jacksonville, Florida (6%). Here's the slightly deflating caveat: this reverse gender gap, as it's known, applies only to unmarried, childless women under 30 who live in cities."
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 13, 2012 10:48:07 GMT -5
Evidence of a New "Reverse Gender Wage Gap" From Time Magazine: www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html "According to a new analysis of 2,000 communities by a market research company, in 147 out of 150 of the biggest cities in the U.S., young women's median full-time salaries are 8% higher than those of the guys in their peer group. In two cities, Atlanta and Memphis, those women are making around 20% more. This squares with earlier research from Queens College, New York, that had suggested that this was happening in major metropoles. But the new study suggests that the gap is bigger than thought, with young women in New York City, Los Angeles and San Diego making 17%, 12% and 15% more than their male peers respectively. And it also holds true even in reasonably small cities like Raleigh Durham, N.C., Charlotte, N.C., (both 14% more) and Jacksonville, Florida (6%). Here's the slightly deflating caveat: this reverse gender gap, as it's known, applies only to unmarried, childless women under 30 who live in cities." It's not particularly surprising that immature, materialistic, ambitious selfish clods would make more than well-rounded, more mature, family-oriented people regardless of gender.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 13, 2012 11:19:38 GMT -5
Aggregate data will mislead rather than clarify in the issue of the gender wage gap.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2012 11:54:22 GMT -5
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 13, 2012 12:14:13 GMT -5
Aggregate data will mislead rather than clarify in the issue of the gender wage gap. Amen to that. Men and women tend to go into different fields, work for different industries (construction vs social work) and have different levels of risk tolerance (contract vs employee vs government service). That alone can account for huge differences in pay, regardless of work ethic and political savy.
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 13, 2012 12:31:33 GMT -5
Aggregate data will mislead rather than clarify in the issue of the gender wage gap. Amen to that. Men and women tend to go into different fields, work for different industries (construction vs social work) and have different levels of risk tolerance (contract vs employee vs government service). That alone can account for huge differences in pay, regardless of work ethic and political savy. ie: haven't seen a lot of male hotel maids recently.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 14, 2012 1:35:22 GMT -5
Over on YM, there's a thread about a woman wanting to take 12 weeks of maternatity leave at 2/3 pay, then quit afterward and move to be closer to family.
And then women wonder why they get paid less than men.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2012 10:33:34 GMT -5
Over on YM, there's a thread about a woman wanting to take 12 weeks of maternatity leave at 2/3 pay, then quit afterward and move to be closer to family. And then women wonder why they get paid less than men. Because people perpetuate stereotypes like this.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 14, 2012 10:41:42 GMT -5
Over on YM, there's a thread about a woman wanting to take 12 weeks of maternatity leave at 2/3 pay, then quit afterward and move to be closer to family. And then women wonder why they get paid less than men. There was a guy at my old job who was on diability for a long time with back problems and then left to become a chef. How someone with a bad back could work a job where you are on your feet 12 hours a day is beyond me. Women aren't the only ones that choose to disable themselves.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 14, 2012 10:44:43 GMT -5
Honestly, men should start hitting the nursing schools in droves. It has never made sense to have a job that is so physically demanding done almost exclusively by women. Most women in nursing have crushed disks before they turn 30. And in many areas, there is such a shortage, male nurses are in very high demand and are virtually guaranteed a good job as soon as they graduate.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2012 10:59:49 GMT -5
My guardian was a male nurse. He received his training in the military.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 14, 2012 11:13:06 GMT -5
I agree with this data. One of the reasons for this is given in the book, "Pinched" by Don Peck. www.randomhouse.com/book/209065/pinched-by-don-peckAmong other factors is the decline in traditionally high-paying male dominated fields in favor of a new economy that is service sector dominated. He mentions that female "communication skills" are essential. In less politically correct language, women are more apt to take the CR@p that customers dish out. Planting a big one on the correct buttocks is a skill men are less likely to have the stomach for. I believe that it is not so much that women are gaining, but that men are losing. Just compare the ludicrous economy of today with the economy of the 1970s where jobs like truck driver, dockworker, heavy equipment operator, were all prevalent and paid the big bucks. Further adding to this problem is that women are more likely to possess college educations and well-developed clerical skills and to be concentrated on the service or government sector jobs that men once eschewed as poorly paid. This is where the security is now and it follows a pattern often seen in bad times, where the "dirty" jobs like cleaning bedsores, become desired. Your view of the sexes is fascinating to me. My grandma that just died will have two kinds of people at her funeral- those of us that loved her, and the rest will be there just to make sure. She kissed NO ass, but she whipped many in her day. She worked hard, with her hands- just last year, she was still splitting her own firewood, emphysema and all (though she obviously couldn't burn it, she always had it for us to build a campfire out on the property when we came down- we tried to get her to just leave it, but she had to do everything herself). She could bargain like nobody I've ever seen- she NEVER got taken by anyone. She kept a hatchet handy- it was her weapon of choice. None of us is certain if there might be some bones out there somewhere in a shallow grave...
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 14, 2012 11:34:50 GMT -5
Y'all are just going to have to accept that women are smarter and do the job better, so they deserve the extra money.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 14, 2012 11:51:40 GMT -5
Y'all are just going to have to accept that women are smarter and do the job better, so they deserve the extra money. I agree. In fact, double women's pay!! I want to retire.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 14, 2012 11:56:49 GMT -5
By the way, does anybody find it troubling that a woman who goes into a male dominated field is considered brave and strong while a man who goes into a female dominated field is considered a perv, or something less than a man? Blindly going along with this double standard is really hurting the guys, especially the ones who don't fit the mold of traditional manhood.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 14, 2012 12:08:25 GMT -5
By the way, does anybody find it troubling that a woman who goes into a male dominated field is considered brave and strong while a man who goes into a female dominated field is considered a perv, or something less than a man? I considered a woman brave and strong if she were one of the first women to enter a 100% male dominated field. Personally, I don't think there any left, other than POTUS. Admittedly, I would still consider a guy selling Avon a "perv, or something less than a man" though.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 14, 2012 12:21:31 GMT -5
"Honestly, men should start hitting the nursing schools in droves. It has never made sense to have a job that is so physically demanding done almost exclusively by women. Most women in nursing have crushed disks before they turn 30. And in many areas, there is such a shortage, male nurses are in very high demand and are virtually guaranteed a good job as soon as they graduate."
I don't have any personal experience with nursing, but from what I've been told by other nurses, men are really desired because they typically have the strength to move patients.
"Because people perpetuate stereotypes like this."
It's not a sterotype if people are actually doing it.
"I really do believe that it is simply that the "better" jobs that the men did are disappearing. Who wouldn't want to receive $50.00/hour like a master electrician can make vs. $15.00 as a clerk? But the clerk works in all seasons and through most downturns."
I agree with this. Men have been seeing their wages, adjusted for inflation, go down over the years. I think it's a trend that will continue. Women will have the skills and education for the "new economy" while your traditional blue coller guy will have fewer and fewer opportunities. Women are earning more degrees, so it would stand to reason women will get paid more when, to make a living, one needs multiple college degrees in the future.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 14, 2012 12:24:12 GMT -5
"By the way, does anybody find it troubling that a woman who goes into a male dominated field is considered brave and strong while a man who goes into a female dominated field is considered a perv, or something less than a man? Blindly going along with this double standard is really hurting the guys, especially the ones who don't fit the mold of traditional manhood."
I never thought that, for the most part. I've worked in the science/engineering/contruction fields, and most were men. But I don't view the women as "brave" in any sense.
Conversely, I don't see men who choose to be nurses or teachers as "less of a man." Unless, maybe, they're peddling perfume or soaps or something.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 14, 2012 16:14:05 GMT -5
I have to wonder if more women are getting degrees because of the feminization of the schools I keep hearing about.
The folks at my son's preschool are all freaked out because he's having trouble doing things I had trouble doing when I was 6. I'm like "What's the hurry and what's the big deal?"
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Feb 14, 2012 18:37:41 GMT -5
By the way, does anybody find it troubling that a woman who goes into a male dominated field is considered brave and strong while a man who goes into a female dominated field is considered a perv, or something less than a man? Blindly going along with this double standard is really hurting the guys, especially the ones who don't fit the mold of traditional manhood. Traditional manhood is bull. Your a man because of your self worth and your character, not what you drink, can lift or what you know about cars.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Feb 16, 2012 13:16:38 GMT -5
Gender Wage Gap May Be Much Smaller Than Most Think www.stlouisfed.org/publications/re/articles/?id=2160By Natalia A. Kolesnikova and Yang Liu The gap between earnings of male and female workers has declined significantly over the past 30 years. The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports that in 1979 median weekly earnings of full-time female workers were 63.5 percent of male workers' earnings, implying a gap of 36.5 percent. The earnings gap dropped to 30 percent in 1989 and to 23.7 percent in 1999. In the second quarter of 2011, the gap reached a low of 16.5 percent. Despite the accuracy of these numbers, many researchers believe that the mere comparison of median weekly earnings of male and female workers presents an incomplete picture. First, women are likely to work fewer hours than men, which would make a gap in weekly earnings between the two groups substantial even if their hourly wages are the same. For this reason, most economic studies of a gender gap, including all of the studies reviewed in this article, use hourly wages instead of weekly earnings as a measure. Second, many other factors (such as education and labor force attachment) could affect wages. Research suggests that the actual gender wage gap (when female workers are compared with male workers who have similar characteristics) is much lower than the raw wage gap. Many studies point out that differences in educational attainment, work experience and occupational choice contribute to the gender wage gap. Economists Francine Blau and Lawrence Kahn found that women's gains in education and work experience together accounted for one-third of the decline in the gap in the 1980s and 1990s.1 As women become more educated, they have more employment opportunities in occupations that require higher skills and pay higher wages. Such occupational "upgrades" helped to narrow the wage gap. However, there are still significantly fewer women in highly paid occupations. Men are more likely to be lawyers, doctors and business executives, while women are more likely to be teachers, nurses and office clerks. This gender occupational segregation might be a primary factor behind the wage gap. Another important reason for the gender gap is the difference in labor force attachment between men and women. Women are likely to leave their careers temporarily for childbirth and raising children. Such leaves may be associated with a decrease in human capital and with temporary delays in training and promotion, which consequently lead to lower wages. In addition, women are more likely to work part time and less likely to work overtime than men because of family responsibilities. One study found that, because women have weaker labor force attachment than men, women tend to be assigned to positions where turnover is less costly.2 As a result, women are employed in positions that have a shorter duration of on-the-job training and that use less capital. The study concludes that these differences in on-the-job training and capital in positions filled by men and women, along with an implied lower value placed on women's prior labor market experience, account for a substantial part of the gap in wages between males and females. A recent report prepared for the U.S. Department of Labor analyzed the gender wage gap using Current Population Survey (CPS) data for 2007.3 The report takes into account differences between men and women in educational attainment, work experience, occupation, career interruptions, part-time status and overtime worked. The result is striking—these factors explain approximately three-fourths of the 2007 raw gender hourly wage gap of 20.4 percent. The adjusted 2007 gender hourly wage gap is roughly 5 percent.4 To better match women and men with similar characteristics relevant in a job market, another study used the very detailed National Survey of College Graduates 1993 (NSCG), which provides information not only on the highest degree attained, but also on major field of study and labor force experience.5 To explore racial differences in the gender wage gap, the study compared women of various ethnicities with white men who had similar education, work experience and academic major and who spoke English at home. The study reports a wage gap of 9 percent for white women, 13 percent for black women, 2 percent for Asian women and 0.4 percent for Hispanic women. When the analysis was restricted to unmarried, childless women only, the wage gap shrunk to 7 percent for white women, 9 percent for black women and to virtually zero for Asian and Hispanic women. Some researchers believe that it is not enough to compare wages of similar men and women. They argue that total compensation (wages together with benefits) must be compared. Women of child-bearing age may prefer jobs with a lower wage but with employer-paid parental leave, sick leave and child care to jobs with a higher wage but without such benefits. A study that used National Longitudinal Survey of Youth 1979 (NLSY79) found that female workers were indeed more likely to receive family-friendly fringe benefits.6 Some economists believe that female workers "pay" for the benefits they prefer by accepting a lower wage. If that is the case, excluding fringe benefits would exaggerate the actual gender wage disparity. Economists Eric Solberg and Teresa Laughlin applied an index of total compensation, which accounts for both wages and benefits, to analyze how these benefits would affect the gender gap.7 They found a gender gap in wages of approximately 13 percent. But when they considered total compensation, the gender gap dropped to 3.6 percent. Despite the difficulty in measuring the gender gap in earnings, the topic attracts much attention of policymakers and pay-equity advocates. Hopefully, continued economic research on the subject will add to a meaningful discussion and will guide effective public policy.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2012 13:22:20 GMT -5
A lot of this is random too. At one time the majority of secretaries were male. Years ago when my father passed away and my mother had to find work, the position she was hired for had formerly been held by a male and therefore her salary was decreased simply because she was a woman. Regardless of the fact that she had a family to support. Things have come a long way. Currently where I work the top three earners are female.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Feb 16, 2012 13:26:19 GMT -5
A lot of this is random too. At one time the majority of secretaries were male. Years ago when my father passed away and my mother had to find work, the position she was hired for had formerly been held by a male and therefore her salary was decreased simply because she was a woman. Regardless of the fact that she had a family to support. Things have come a long way. Currently where I work the top three earners are female. No, it was likely she had limited current experience.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2012 13:32:40 GMT -5
Years ago when my father passed away and my mother had to find work, the position she was hired for had formerly been held by a male and therefore her salary was decreased simply because she was a woman. Regardless of the fact that she had a family to support. Things have come a long way. Currently where I work the top three earners are female. No, it was likely she had limited current experience. No, she had worked for that very company before she was married and moved away. It had only been a few years.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 16, 2012 13:35:19 GMT -5
Whenever I meet a male nurse, I think of the Indoor Arena Football League, and years ago on Phoenix's team (the Rattler's) there was a guy who was a nurse, and a runningback. And he did an interview that said the other team would talk smack to him on the line by saying "Paging Nurse Green, Paging Nurse Green" before the snap. He said he thought it was hilarious, and sometimes it would work - not because it would intimidate him, but because he would laugh and lose focus. He was a great player. I don't know about his nursing skills - but he seemed like a good guy, spoke well, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2012 13:36:17 GMT -5
Whenever I meet a male nurse, I think of the Indoor Arena Football League, and years ago on Phoenix's team (the Rattler's) there was a guy who was a nurse, and a runningback. And he did an interview that said the other team would talk smack to him on the line by saying "Paging Nurse Green, Paging Nurse Green" before the snap. He said he thought it was hilarious, and sometimes it would work - not because it would intimidate him, but because he would laugh and lose focus. He was a great player. I don't know about his nursing skills - but he seemed like a good guy, spoke well, etc.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 16, 2012 13:37:55 GMT -5
He didn't look like that at all.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2012 13:38:29 GMT -5
He didn't look like that at all. lol, thats Gaylord Focker. You had to see the movie.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2012 13:51:33 GMT -5
Years ago when my father passed away and my mother had to find work, the position she was hired for had formerly been held by a male and therefore her salary was decreased simply because she was a woman. Regardless of the fact that she had a family to support. Things have come a long way. Currently where I work the top three earners are female. No, it was likely she had limited current experience. There was a time where the job designation of secretary switched over to the female stereotype we enjoy today. During this transition pay/renumeration did indeed decrease as it became a "woman's" job.
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