working in a maximum-security prison

[debtheaven]

It was an offer I could, and did, refuse LOL.

I am a journalist who has reincarnated into an ESL teacher. As of last week I am short on hours so I have been applying to a bunch of jobs, mainly on the UE site. I know I should have been more proactive but it was Christmas, my young adult kids were home and I left it. The French UE job site is very active because companies who recruit via UE get a boatload of tax breaks.

Anyway, I answered two ads from the same place. One ad was for four hours of ESL teaching over two days, 30 min away, twice a week. The other was for six hours of teaching on one day, about 45 min away.

So I got called today for an interview, for either one or the other (both jobs are on the same day, can't do both). Find out the first one (2X2) is teaching English in an maximum-security prison. I said, I'm guessing they're not there for tax evasion. She laughed and said, no, if they are there for decades, it's not for tax evasion. But in the four years we've been offering classes there, we've never had a problem.

She asked, do you have a problem with that? I said, well honestly, I'm a bit surprised. She said, I was too at first. I guess you don't want to work there. I said I'm not refusing to work there, but given my schedule, frankly I would much prefer the one-day block of six hours (which is in a company, not a prison). She said given your long commute, that makes perfect sense.

So I have an interview for the six-hour job in a week, she apologized profusely for not being able to give me one sooner. She made it sound like they just need to verify that I don't have two heads, talked at great length about how the former teacher would fill me in, etc, ie made it sound like I was a "shoe-in" but at this point I know that means absolutely nothing. I really do hope I get that other job though.

So, have any of you ever worked in a prison? I have to admit, I certainly wasn't expecting that.

[zibazinski]

I did it one summer and it was via a camera. I never was in any physical contact with the prisoners.

[debtheaven]

Zib, interesting. How did it work out? I might have considered that. But this is face-to-face and as I said, I never said nyet, I just said I much preferred the other job (which is a much better deal for me financially, six hours once a week rather than two hours twice a week).

But I really don't see myself teaching murderers, rapists, child abusers. I know somebody has to and theoretically I think that's a good thing, but I'm not sure I want to be the one to do it.

I have ZERO experience with the prison system. That doesn't seem like something to be proud of, that seems normal to me. So I think these potential students would be much better served by somebody else.

But, it has certainly piqued my curiosity.

[bobbysgirl]

Debt: From what I've seen, working in an environment that includes troubled people is for a few people that have something in their heart for them. A person needs to convey confidence and humility, which is a difficult combination to obtain. I know someone who worked in a prison (male) who had to act tougher than the inmates. Needless to say he became hardened. To teach is different. One needs flexibility and humility and genuine care for the inmates. But strength is in the mix as well. Hard to accomplish.

[debtheaven]

Never say never, but I couldn't do it Bobbysgirl. I really appreciate your post!

[cronewitch]

I think you would be kept pretty safe but not 100%. I worked in a mental hospital once and some were dangerous offenders. I was a cleaning person on a crew so when in a locked down section the patients were keep in a day room when we cleaned the rooms and public areas then put in rooms when we cleaned the day room. Strong men could be called if a problem to handle the patients. I didn't have trouble with them but a sexual psychopath asked me to marry him. He was locked up then released to a unlocked ward but caught with a woman patient in the woods with pillows and blankets so put back in lock up. The women who went to the woods with him more than once claimed he raped her but she was insane also and helped carry the pillows and blankets.

I ignored him talking to me and waited until they came and took him away.

I imagine if the person you were teaching was alone with you at all it would be were you could be watched by guards. He would be in big trouble if he hurt you but that might not stop him and help might not arrive in time. Being a sexist I would prefer a big strong man taught men in prisons so men were less likely to attack.

You would probably be fine but probably isn't good enough.

[debtheaven]

I appreciate your posts. I reiterate, for now, I am refusing this job.

I know that I would be physically safe teaching there. What bothers me more / most is what if I say something, or give somebody a bad grade and it festers and one day they get out and seek me out?

In fact I don't care if they seek ME out personally, but what if they seek out my house and hurt one of my kids? I know I am probably being paranoid, yada yada yada, but to me at least, this is quite an unusual situation. I feel no particular "calling" to do this, so why would I take a risk?

Again, I have ZERO regrets / remorse about not accepting that interview / job. Again, I'm just curious as to who of you have had to deal with that sort of population.

ETA: Kari I can well imagine their relief ... seriously this is something I would never have thought of in a thousand years. Murderers, rapists, child abusers? Crone, same thing, I can well imagine the fear.

Bottom line is, thanks but no thanks.

[zibazinski]

I just did GED for them and I never had face to face like I said. Cameras only and intercom sort of thing(late 70's.) I'm amazed that they are having you have actual contact with prisoners. No one said or did anything out of line.

[resolution]

Message deleted by kari.

[michelyn8]

You made the decision that is right for you.

As far as working with the actual inmates, I would think that those allowed to participate in these classes are only going to be those that "earned the privelege". So as far as being safe or retribution, I wouldn't worry about that too much. However, if you are uncomfortable as you say you probably will be, the students will pick up on it and probably see how far they can push (kind of like a bully in a school setting).

I interviewed for an admin job at a medium security prison when I was unemployed in 2007. The position would have required some contact with the inmates and I'll admit when asked about being that situation, I showed some hesitation before I answered. Needless to say, I didn't get the job which is fine by me.

[HoneyBBQ]

Something to think about... are you teaching male inmates or female ones?

Most (>75%) women in prison are there for non-violent drug offenses. They often end up in maximum security prisons because there is no where else for them to go. They also end up there for a very long time because of the "one strike" you're out rule with no chances of early parole.

I'm not a bleeding heart liberal, honestly, I just did some reading about this lately and was really surprised by what I found.

[zibazinski]

I was small white female and I taught men. Since I had no physical contact with them, I didn't care. I felt more intimidated by the guards and the whole process of getting inside to teach than I did by the prisoners themselves.

[thyme4change]

I didn't work in a prison, but I did volunteer to teach GED Math to a group of guys in a half-way house that was drug rehab-post-prison. I never asked, but just assumed they were all in there for drug related offenses. I didn't want to know if it was something else. One guy "got out" and was back in a short time later and he confessed it was because he picked up a hooker, which was a parole violation. I guess his stint in prison was long and lonely.

They were a cracked bunch. They all had "anger management" issues - except one guy who never seem to get flustered. They had all had really tough lives. Only one guy didn't have stories about an abusive father, but that guy told me about his wonderful loving family, that use to get him drunk as a kid (less than 10 years old) because they thought it was funny to watch him run around all crazy.

I worked with them for almost a year, one evening per week, cycling through a couple groups of guys. A few stand out in my memory. I am pretty sure that I learned more from them than they ever learned from me. I only know of 1 guy that was able to pass the GED.

[Deleted]

"I'm not a bleeding heart liberal, honestly, I just did some reading about this lately and was really surprised by what I found."

You'd be amazed how many of us 'bleeding heart liberals'... were stand up republican party liners, until we actually read a bit... and started talking to people, especially children, who actually live in the 'real world'...

[HoneyBBQ]

"You'd be amazed how many of us 'bleeding heart liberals'... were stand up republican party liners, until we actually read a bit... and started talking to people, especially children, who actually live in the 'real world'..."

Interesting. You used to identify strongly with the republican party and now you feel otherwise? I know in general the republican party is "pro" death penalty but is "anti" abortion. Always seemed like a dichotomy to me hee hee.

[thyme4change]

I think both party are whack and full of nonsensical contradictions.

[Urban Chicago]

A little off-topic but:

DH is an Urban Planner. Prisons are often pitched to cities as a way to increase jobs and tax dollars. He did the math on a few, and they do NOT provide a net dollar or job gain. Don't buy that BS if you are asked to vote on bringing prisons into your community.

[Abby Normal]

We have a friend who is a guard in the state prison. We got together the other night and he said "Yeah, I had a nice conversation with a serial killer."

But the stories he can tell- names excluded of course.

[kinetickid]

Jan 19, 2011 21:12:19 GMT -5 @debtheaven said:

Zib, interesting. How did it work out? I might have considered that. But this is face-to-face and as I said, I never said nyet, I just said I much preferred the other job (which is a much better deal for me financially, six hours once a week rather than two hours twice a week).

But I really don't see myself teaching murderers, rapists, child abusers. I know somebody has to and theoretically I think that's a good thing, but I'm not sure I want to be the one to do it.

I have ZERO experience with the prison system. That doesn't seem like something to be proud of, that seems normal to me. So I think these potential students would be much better served by somebody else.

But, it has certainly piqued my curiosity.

Debt, you're still in France, right? Can one compare French prisons to those in the US?

[Deleted]

"Interesting. You used to identify strongly with the republican party and now you feel otherwise? I know in general the republican party is "pro" death penalty but is "anti" abortion. Always seemed like a dichotomy to me hee hee."

No, i've always been socially 'liberal' (i consider it libertarian... why would i be for my right to keep the government out of my house and pocket book... and not also want them to keep out of my uterus?... death penalty, i'm for... as long as we can be certain, but with wrong executions on the books, i'm on the fence...)

But i've said before i was raised a Rand junkie... i was in love with D-Anconia (I mean... Rand should have known it was just a fairy tale that would never hold up in reality... cause try as you might, make Galt as smart as you he is... and girls alway still fall in love with D-anconia... )... I can distinctly remember having an argument with a college prof... that yeah, the idea that welfare moms had more babies in order to get more benefits was stupid... didn't mean it didn't happen though... just that it was stupid...

Then i taught rural districts special education, and other social/work type occupations for about a decade... and realized that most people don't live up to the best possible versions of themselves... and that when we pull social services, the ones who get hurt most are the kids... and we're barely making it good enough for too many of them now...

[Deleted]

Hi Debt,

I've met a couple of people who have worked in the Prison system. One was DFIL's wife (#3), she taught inmates to read and I am unsure what level of security was the prison.

The second is a nurse who worked for the County jail. Since they are usually the first point of entry for the jail system, they had all kinds of people in there.

Much to my surprise, both were very positive about the experience. It paid really well and they both said that the inmates were very, very grateful. When I was living in AZ I had a chance to chat with a retired state correctional officers group which had formed a charitable organization in order to teach inmates a skill. It sounded like a good program where they could only get into it if they passed their GED.

My nurse friend says most of these people were throw-away kids, with parents who had severe drug and alcohol problems and were neglected or abused, hence the anti social behavior. Lots of them have learning disabilities. I'm not trying to talk you into doing the job since it doesn't work for you but if something like that comes up again I would suggest that you explore it further.

[stillontheroad]

I've always been anti-abortion and anti-death penalty, but I am also re-examining my opposition to the death penalty as I hear about jailbirds attempting contract hits from the pen.

My issue with the death penalty isn't that it's too harsh - it's that far too many Death Row inmates have later been exonerated of the crimes they were convicted of. I'm not opposed to executing extremely heinous criminals when there is zero doubt as to what they did - the recent shooting in Tucson comes to mind. But I think it should be limited only to those types of cases.

There was a case in Illinois a few years back where a toddler was molested and killed, and her father was arrested and even confessed (under coercion). That sounded like a great argument for the death penalty...until someone else was proven to be the killer and the father was proven totally innocent. I say unless there isn't even a shadow of a doubt, the death penalty is a bad idea.

[HoneyBBQ]

Personally, I'm pro-choice and anti-death penalty...

[Deleted]

I'm with Still... if we could be sure, i'm not unapposed on moral grounds to a death penalty for certain crimes... but i'm not convinced we can be sure.