moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jan 19, 2011 18:38:38 GMT -5
i'm not just defending him.. i am defending all of us who don't necessarily have perfect typing, grammar and spelling skills, but are intelligent nonetheless. it wasn't necessary to be insulting, that's all.
i repeat- what does someone's writing style have to do with their ability to moderate?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2011 18:44:38 GMT -5
I am alright with welfare if it was not set up for abuse. WIC does not bother me but food stamps do, WIC is based on income whereas with food stamps, if you own a house you must sell it, yet you can have a car... makes no sense to me. I feel like food stamps are set up to be abused. You don't have to learn to cook, you can buy junk with them. It does not seem like a helping hand when someone is down, it seems like it helps only when you are past the chance for help to help pull you up.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 19, 2011 18:48:35 GMT -5
Actually because supposedly being a moderator is a position that should mean you have the ability to try to remain neutral and try to present a fair and even demeanor under fire sometimes even. There are former moderators that didn't make it onto this new forum because of their inability to separate their personal/professional manners.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 19, 2011 18:51:09 GMT -5
Using spell check is not an insult and I have to admit, some of the really crude language(not the funny play on words)is a bit off putting. I can't believe you can use some of the words that are used and it's okay. Calling someone a whore or a prick is a bit over the top.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Jan 19, 2011 18:51:54 GMT -5
Thanks for all the replies. I just wanted to know if someone "poor" was allowed in...or if I should just stay lurking. Even though no one here will ever "meet" me or anything I didn't want to not be honest. We're poor. But I think that I can learn a lot from ya all and I feel I need to continue to learn even if we can't take 2k and open a ROTH right now. What do you mean by "poor", Justwhoever? What does that mean to you? I made 48k last year, my highest earning year EVER. I also receive 6k in child support. I do not feel poor. Far from it. If your dh makes 40k and you work part-time to boot, that's not poor IMO. It does mean you will have to plan and choose indulgences carefully. Maybe you aren't tracking your money and too much of it is slipping through your fingers? You can change that, if you want to.
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Zeke
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Post by Zeke on Jan 19, 2011 18:55:26 GMT -5
The welfare program is a great theory. It is there to help people, but too many people abuse it, and people that should be able to use it are not able to.
My brother collected unemployment for 2 months, and during that time he qualified for food stamps. He and my SIL went grocery shopping and bought mostly staples and frozen veggies. They were amazed that they were "given" so much money to feed a family of 4.
My wife's cousin and her family of 4 have been welfare cases for as long as I've known them. He hasn't had a job for 3 years, and she doesn't want to work. They live in a house given to them by her mom, her dad pays all the utilities, and their "tax refund" of over $12k a year lets them not have to work. they get food stamps and WIC, so they basically have no expenses. He got his CDL a6 months ago (didn't have to pay for the trainng), but hasn't even looked for a job. Why would he? They live just fine, and don't have to work. They have no incetive to change anything.
I was out of a job and on unemployment for 2 months too. Our son was 2 months old at the time, and we did qulify for anything. The bills were the same, and the UE checks were half of what my normal pay was. We skimped as best we could and made it through.
The system is there to help, but from what I've seen in my family, it's a 50% success so far.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2011 18:58:42 GMT -5
"their "tax refund" of over $12k a year lets them not have to work."
hmmm... you actually can't get a 'tax refund' if you dont' work... The Earned Income Tax Credit is refundable, meaning you can get more back than you paid in, but you can't get it unless you have Earned Income... so i guess i'm not sure what you are saying here?
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jan 19, 2011 18:59:26 GMT -5
Using spell check is not an insult and I have to admit, some of the really crude language(not the funny play on words)is a bit off putting. I can't believe you can use some of the words that are used and it's okay. Calling someone a whore or a prick is a bit over the top. but you didn't say anything about spell check. you went straight to the "you're a MOD?". That is what's insulting.. anyway, enough of that battle as for the language, if someone is being called names here like what you said, no one has reported it to me. as far as i'm concerned, that will get a post deleted, and possibly a short term ban, depending on the circumstances. there's no need for that.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 19, 2011 19:09:06 GMT -5
Geez, I wasn't even talking about HIS posts when I mentioned the filthy language. Sorry but using words like that reflect poorly on the ones that use them and even worse if it's a moderator. You sign up for the job, lobby for it in fact, then you are setting yourself ABOVE the regular poster and should govern yourself accordingly.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Jan 19, 2011 19:17:42 GMT -5
Actualy, oped, I do know how much they paid for their house, and I am certainly not going to disclose how I know on this forum. Once escrow closes, it is public information. You can find it very quickly simply by typing their address into Zillow.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jan 19, 2011 19:24:01 GMT -5
Geez, I wasn't even talking about HIS posts when I mentioned the filthy language. Sorry but using words like that reflect poorly on the ones that use them and even worse if it's a moderator. You sign up for the job, lobby for it in fact, then you are setting yourself ABOVE the regular poster and should govern yourself accordingly. i wasn't implying you were talking about him specifically. i took it as a generalized statement you were making.. however, i somewhat disagree with you on foul language statement, and i'll explain why. when something is a hot button issue, as this clearly is to some, there are times that expletives may be used to make a point because it's a way to express the anger and frustration associated with the topic. in THIS situation, i don't judge the language. on the other hand, if it's used constantly then i do take issue with it. also, it's important to realize that DI's post was made as a board member, not as a mod. if he were speaking as a mod, then i'm sure things would be different. i know i 'act' differently when i have on my official cap versus times i don't..
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Jan 19, 2011 19:39:26 GMT -5
The welfare program is a great theory. It is there to help people, but too many people abuse it, and people that should be able to use it are not able to. My brother collected unemployment for 2 months, and during that time he qualified for food stamps. He and my SIL went grocery shopping and bought mostly staples and frozen veggies. They were amazed that they were "given" so much money to feed a family of 4. My wife's cousin and her family of 4 have been welfare cases for as long as I've known them. He hasn't had a job for 3 years, and she doesn't want to work. They live in a house given to them by her mom, her dad pays all the utilities, and their "tax refund" of over $12k a year lets them not have to work. they get food stamps and WIC, so they basically have no expenses. He got his CDL a6 months ago (didn't have to pay for the trainng), but hasn't even looked for a job. Why would he? They live just fine, and don't have to work. They have no incetive to change anything. I was out of a job and on unemployment for 2 months too. Our son was 2 months old at the time, and we did qulify for anything. The bills were the same, and the UE checks were half of what my normal pay was. We skimped as best we could and made it through. The system is there to help, but from what I've seen in my family, it's a 50% success so far. Well, if your earned income = $0, then your EITC = $0. So, what 12k income tax refund might you be talking about? BTW, in 2009 the maximum EITC with 2 children was $5,028.
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hannah27
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Post by hannah27 on Jan 19, 2011 19:44:51 GMT -5
I know that there are people who abuse the welfare system but I really don't believe they're in the majority. As for food stamps, they are necessary for many families to get by nowadays.
I've never received any sort of public assistance but I don't begrudge anyone who needs it. I am very glad that I have never needed it. There but for the grace of God go I - and all of you, too.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jan 19, 2011 19:45:38 GMT -5
Calling someone a whore or a prick is a bit over the top. What are you talking about? I don't see those words. I see three shits and one fuck in one post and one shit, two fucks and one bitch (used as verb, not a noun) in the second. I resent the insinuation that the words "whore" or "prick" were used. They were not. On the other hand, if some of the irregular puntuation e.g. $!@ is actually standing in for those words, I'd appreciate the translation. I can be a bit naive sometimes.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 19, 2011 19:48:46 GMT -5
I did not say he used those words in his post. What I said was that there were a fair amount of posts with language like that in them.
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TrixAre4Kids
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Post by TrixAre4Kids on Jan 19, 2011 21:56:22 GMT -5
Nah, I think she's just embarrassed
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jan 19, 2011 22:57:14 GMT -5
Perhaps it would have been more honest to have answered "Yes, you will be pelted with rotten eggs. Yes, your work ethic, intelligence, and every prior mistake will be questioned, ruthlessly, by folks who pretty much lash out at the mention of public assistance. Nope, we don't know anything about the math behind your challenges. Nope, we refuse to learn either."
I've often thought about answering that way. I've often considered advising someone asking such a question to develop a very thick skin. I've often wondered whether I should be suggesting the kinder boards.
All of those responses sound a lot like, "Go away. You are unclean and unwanted. Go find someone else who understands you better."
Even after spending seven years on various permutations of YM, I don't know how to answer the question.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 20, 2011 8:37:48 GMT -5
Actually, I don't think anyone pelted the OP. She works, her husband works, they aren't continuing to reproduce, they have owned up to their mistakes and asking what else they can do. It veered off into those who have recieved aid in the past. Or didn't and felt they should have.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jan 20, 2011 9:52:41 GMT -5
I went back and re-read all the posts and there was nothing that I saw that called people on public assistance "worthless". We all shared some frustrations with the system and people that have abused the system. We learned some information from people that have been on different forms of public assistance. I see that as a form of education. How am I supposed to know what it's like or what the requirements are if no one tells me? I have experience with UE and that's it. I shared my opinions on my local HFH chapter because I AM familiar with their practices and issues. I have known people that have abused the system. I am supposed to feel sorry for the local pot dealer who divorced his wife so they could get more public assistance? I was friends with their daughter for years. I saw how they blew through money. And yes this is the same family that claimed their 23 year old was 17 on their HFH application. Do I think that everyone on assistance is like that family- absolutely NOT. Do I think there may be families out there like them- yes. I didn't feel the tone of any of the posts were crazy out of line or disrespectful. As for the OP- she previously was a poster on the WIR controlled spending threads and has made a lot of progress in her life and I applaud her for that.
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Post by justwhoever on Jan 20, 2011 11:02:03 GMT -5
I've really got to learn to take notes.
My husband has been to college 3 times. He has finished 3 times. He's been for electrical, he can fix airplanes and he can shoot x-rays. Which all sound great. For a different area. And no we can not move.
We own our home...ok ok we are still paying the bank but selling it now would be very hard. It's over 100 yrs old and needs some newer things. Besides I love my town and don't wanna go to some big city.
Could he get a job in any of his fields? That I do not know. It's been years(before we got together) since he's done 2 of them and he's been working at fast food for 2 yrs now. A gap in your field is like a major sin so it probably would be hard.
For the record we made a bit over 20k this past year. That is poor. If we could make 40k again I would be thrilled!!!
Working with him is NOT allowed. The manager refuses to hire husband/wife. I can understand why. Summer camps here are all church owned and we don't belong to a church. So I wouldn't be able to get a job there. Watching kids during the summer and keeping school job is a good idea too. And I plan on talking to dh once we have a longer moment to really talk. See if he thinks it would be ok to do.
We all know someone or seen someone who abused the system. And that is why "welfare" is a "bad" thing. I could share many stories that would make your jaw hit the floor. Some of the rules to get on welfare are crazy. The hoops you sometimes gotta jump through are sooo insane. I'm living it and I can not understand why others want to continue to live it. But to each their own I guess.
I hope and pray that 2011 will be our year to finally get up out of the ditch we have found our selves in. My husband is 1 of the final 2 people up for a promotion. IF he is offered that title it will DOUBLE his income. Plus mine will put us to 35k a year and that sounds so nice right now. IF he isn't offered the job...he will put his focus back into looking for better employment. it's a wait and see moment for now. When will they decide? Well lol would have been sooner had another person not got their self fired.
I don't have retirements with 6 figures. I don't own rentals. I don't have what some of the regulars seem to have and just wanted to know if someone who had messed up BIG time could come on in!!
Thanks Sheila - I hope you all are well over there. I should pop in over there soon.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2011 11:23:14 GMT -5
"Actually, I don't think anyone pelted the OP. She works, her husband works, they aren't continuing to reproduce, they have owned up to their mistakes and asking what else they can do. It veered off into those who have recieved aid in the past. Or didn't and felt they should have. "
Who didn't get it, but thought they should? ... I think the point i was trying/ try to make, is that too often we talk generally about 'welfare people' and try to make them all into scammers who fleece the system, when MOST of the time, these people are actually LIKE the OP... I don't think she's that much of an exception. To me, the majority of the people, if they are feeling 'entitled', it occurs when 'welfare' is obscured, like in the EITC, where they don't really realize they are getting assistance, and so come to think of it as just 'theirs' somehow... I think true abusers of the system are a small percentage... and even then, those abusers would abuse our system regardless... they would beg and steal, etc... we deal with them systemically... is it always fair? ... no... but does it cause us the minimum of greif, and still attain goals of keeping children out of poverty/relatively safe and healthy... Of course we should always work to make everything as efficient as possible given our goals and resources...
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jan 20, 2011 11:38:48 GMT -5
Justwhoever: Stop by and check in. The same old gang is there.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 20, 2011 11:44:29 GMT -5
Not that it's a wonderful solution but perhaps if your husband does not get this promotion he could go somewhere where he could make some decent money since you cannot or do not wish to move.
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Post by ca on Jan 20, 2011 12:14:17 GMT -5
In Canada, we have "seasonal workers" who collect unemployment in the maritime provinces. And it makes me MAD. Some of these fisherman make very good income, but then don't work in the winter, they collect unemployment "insurance" due to special rules EVERY winter. You can't insure against what is a known event, there is 100% chance of loss, which is not a risk, it's a known loss. Anyway, because welfare is means tested and unemployment insurance is not, they keep it unemployment and these fishermen collect on top of their salaries every year. It's a hot button political issue, as only these provinces have such a scheme and the rest of the country has people not collecting unemployment when they actually ARE unemployed. Here's a nice graph from today's paper that shows what I mean: www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/the-unemployed-across-canada/article1876439/?from=1876434Now THAT sort of shit makes me mad. Not people who geuininely try to work and can't afford to keep the heat on and their kids fed due to change in circumstances (whether they are at fault or not, there should be some guaranteed income supplement to keep people from turning to crime or dying from exposure).
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 20, 2011 12:38:26 GMT -5
The cannery workers do it in Oregon as well. It's seasonal work, always has been, always will be.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jan 20, 2011 12:49:01 GMT -5
Who is being subsidized in those cases? Is it the seasonal worker or the maritime employer?
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Jan 20, 2011 13:03:49 GMT -5
Just Whoever - Your husband is making 15k? If he works only 40 hours per week, that is $7.22 per hour. Since he is a manager, he likely works more than 40 hours per week. Life will always be hard on such wages. If he does get the promotion and doubles his salary, he will be making 30k, still very low for an educated man. I think he needs to give serious thought to a new line of work.
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Post by ca on Jan 20, 2011 13:41:00 GMT -5
The seasonal worker collects unemployment benefits when they are unable to work all winter, every winter. It should just be welfare and means tested, because it's known that they cannot work those periods in that job. Or they should just get different jobs in the winter and work a full year like the rest of the country. But they don't. And they won't because they are ENTITLED and it drives me buggy.
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Post by justwhoever on Jan 20, 2011 13:44:41 GMT -5
Actually he makes $8.50 an hour and no he works 40 hours. If he gets that job it will be $10 an hour and 50 hours a week.
That line of work is what he could get when his job at the hospital went bye-bye. They filed BK. 30k does seem low for someone who has gone to college but is very good income here. LCOL compared to other places.
zib- As in he goes and works out of town and we see him when he has a day or more off? Yes we considered that before he was put into management. It would be very hard. I mean you figure if he left and went to work in another state or city far away he would need a place to sleep and shower. Need some food. It would have to pay a lot to have that make sense. But if that is what it took. There are cities that are close enough to drive back and forth. Just gotta get the call for the interview and the offer. And driving 50+ miles one way would have to pay enough to cover bills and gas. $10/hr there isn't gonna be the same as $10/hr here. Does that make sense? Where we live and where he works isn't even a mile round trip. Really not much of a gas usage. The other 2 closest cities are 100+ one way.
If he isn't chosen then we will start looking, well, he will start looking for something else I am sure. Now that he does have experience in management it could be easier for calls to come.
Is it sad that I have been trying to get a job at our Walmart for the past 2 years? I mean they pay min wage but at 40 hours that would be a huge help. LOL I don't think there are too many people who would actually want to work there. But then I guess it would also seem sad that we are hoping he gets a promotion that will pay 30k/yr too.
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Post by justwhoever on Jan 20, 2011 13:47:39 GMT -5
I should add that he wasn't a manager the entire year. He was working just as a crew member and found a job about an hour away making more money so he put in his notice. The GM didn't want to lose him so offered him same pay and hours here in town. It made sense due to drive time and gas costs to take the management.
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