US Jobs: Coming or Going?

[Virgil Showlion]

Apple is launching a $17 billion bond offering.

Apparently their cash hoard is entirely off-shore and they cant repatriate the funds without paying huge taxes on them. How's that for loyalty.

[clubv]

Why thank you Franky for giving me the floor. I didn't realize you were a moderator. 100 mil working age people have no job. Next.

[frankq]

Yeah...Ok....Whatever....next.....

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Apr 30, 2013 12:53:00 GMT -5 damnotagain said:

Manufacturing Activities in the Chicago Region Contract in April
Manufacturing activity in the Chicago region in April contracted for the first time since September 2009, falling from 52.4 in March to 49.0. The Briefing.com consensus expected the Chicago PMI to decline to 52.0. After hitting a relative peak of 60.9 in January, production levels have dropped swiftly over the past few months and broke through the contraction threshold in April. The production index dropped to 49.9 from 51.8 in March. New orders managed a small gain, increasing from 53.0 in March to 53.2 in April. The gain in new orders, however, was not enough to offset the severe downward trend in the number of unfilled orders. That index dropped to 40.6 from 45.0. Without a steady supply of unfilled orders, it would take a large jump in new orders to boost production above the 50.0 expansion/contraction demarcation point. The employment index fell from 55.1 in March to 48.7 in April.


Read more: www.briefing.com/investor/analysis/story-stocks/manufacturing-activities-in-the-chicago-region-contract-in-april.htm#ixzz2RyDS0cyz


 Should this go on doom and gloom ? Contraction is not going to create jobs.

Exactly, however, since this is the first time that it has contracted since 2009, by you own logic that means for 3.5 years there has been manufacturing jobs and capacity added to the USA.

 Since the housing market is in slow recovery and slow growth continues, it stands to reason that there will be setbacks along the way, the trend is still the American Renaissance, sorry to burst your bubble.  

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Apr 30, 2013 13:02:23 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Apple is launching a $17 billion bond offering.

Apparently their cash hoard is entirely off-shore and they cant repatriate the funds without paying huge taxes on them. How's that for loyalty.

I will get to your other post when I have time over the next bit here Virg, the fact here is that AAPL earned around $100 billion of that cash horde overseas.

 Are you suggesting that AAPL is somehow unpatriotic because they chose to not pay tax in the US on money earned in other countries?  Why would they pay 35% tax on money that can be put to use in other markets, when they can borrow the money here at a low interest rate and give $45 billion back to investors that way?  Considering that AAPLs stock has taken a beating I think giving $100 billion back to investors at this point is very loyal.  But I guess you have to have the courage to invest to take advantage of things like that eh? 

[Virgil Showlion]

Apr 30, 2013 17:53:34 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Apr 30, 2013 13:02:23 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Apple is launching a $17 billion bond offering.

Apparently their cash hoard is entirely off-shore and they cant repatriate the funds without paying huge taxes on them. How's that for loyalty.

I will get to your other post when I have time over the next bit here Virg, the fact here is that AAPL earned around $100 billion of that cash horde overseas.

 Are you suggesting that AAPL is somehow unpatriotic because they chose to not pay tax in the US on money earned in other countries?  Why would they pay 35% tax on money that can be put to use in other markets, when they can borrow the money here at a low interest rate and give $45 billion back to investors that way?  Considering that AAPLs stock has taken a beating I think giving $100 billion back to investors at this point is very loyal.  But I guess you have to have the courage to invest to take advantage of things like that eh? 

What courage? They're a solid company offering 4% over 30 years. Does that scream "risk" to you?

As for my comment about loyalty, I understand that Apple is going to do what's best for their bottom line. It's just worth pointing out that Americans will never see any of the cash that "America's company" is making overseas. It's an American renaissance, just... not in America.

[clubv]

ADP number looks great. March revisions downward. Yep. Things are lookin up.

[frankq]

Yep........housing prices up 10% across the board on average..Yep....best market in 7 years....yep...things are just getting worse and worse.....

[frankq]

What's that?....Ford hiring 2000 workers in Kansas City for their truck plant?

[sunrnr]

Jobs are out there ...

and here...

for example.

[sunrnr]

Total nonfarm payroll employment rose by 165,000 in April. The unemployment rate little changed at 7.5%.

BUT, the CES Birth/Death model estimated 193,000 jobs into existence?

Let's see 193,000 minus 165,000 is ... not positive? Magic through statistics at its best.

The labor participation rate held steady?

Huh, the total unemployed (U-6) rose slightly from 13.8 to 13.9?

Ya know, the wool over my eyes is starting to stink and itch ....

[Virgil Showlion]

May 3, 2013 10:06:43 GMT -5 sunrnr said:

Total nonfarm payroll employment rose by 165,000 in April. The unemployment rate little changed at 7.5%.

BUT, the CES Birth/Death model estimated 193,000 jobs into existence?

Let's see 193,000 minus 165,000 is ... not positive? Magic through statistics at its best.

The labor participation rate held steady?

Huh, the total unemployed (U-6) rose slightly from 13.8 to 13.9?

Ya know, the wool over my eyes is starting to stink and itch ....

It would be 165,000 minus 193,000.

Try not to think about it.

[sunrnr]

Ya, well the world is backwards until enough caffeine has been consumed. Thanks for the correction.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

May 3, 2013 10:06:43 GMT -5 sunrnr said:

Total nonfarm payroll employment rose by 165,000 in April. The unemployment rate little changed at 7.5%.

BUT, the CES Birth/Death model estimated 193,000 jobs into existence?

Let's see 193,000 minus 165,000 is ... not positive? Magic through statistics at its best.

The labor participation rate held steady?

Huh, the total unemployed (U-6) rose slightly from 13.8 to 13.9?

Ya know, the wool over my eyes is starting to stink and itch ....

 Sun, I'm going to read the report again, seems like they are talking total net, you know total jobs after death, retirement, ect, ect.... 

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Apr 29, 2013 0:35:43 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Ham, I apologize for my harsh wording.

Virg, you don't have to apologize, I understand, the propaganda that makes up a large portion of your suggested reading list is designed to elicit an emotional response.

I hear you about the death of the PC, but that wasn't what I was taking about. What I was saying was that our birth rate is bouncing back now that we have started to work out a balance in our society with all this new tech, brought on by the information age.

I don't understand how you don't see that the tech age the we live in now, again a by product of the information age, wouldn't have started when the internet hit critical mass?

How are we communicating right now? What is face book again? How are terra flops of info transfer daily again? All those smart phones and tablets that have their origins in the mid 90's have what on them again? Skype, what the hell is that?? VOIP home phone? What's a netflix? Now a days tons of people are meeting their future SO, where? When only about 10 yrs ago meeting people on the net was creepy. On that point, u see how now as a society we have found balance? The thing that was making us more anti-social, is now called what again? Oh ya that's right, the social network. Would you like fries with that fedora? 

When I was taking about courage I wasn't just referring to AAPL stock, I was referring to taking control of your money and emotions dealing with it. This is the same kind of courage that it takes to be a good parent as well.

You think that the money these companies are making offshore isn't helping the US economy? I guess the record exports of US food aren't helping the USA? How about all those new manufacturing plants around the US that are opening, because of higher wages in other countries, because of American corporations(among others)?

You seem to misunderstand how the net of something works. You see, because the USA's manufacturing sector has been expanding for 3.5 years straight, that means the net total between losses and gains has be growth. I wouldn't expect a place like Zero Hedge to explain that though, it goes against their "everything is a lie" mentality.

You want to know a huge lie Virg? World famine. Right now obesity is a bigger problem than hunger is and about 50% of the food that we produce goes to waist. That's right close to 50%!! Personally I think its closer to 75% of the food that we produce right now goes to waist.

So you know what Virg you go right a head ad keep that cynical, bleak world view even though you have been wrong about so much over the last three years it truly isn't funny. Meanwhile I will keep enjoying my growing family and the good times we get to share together during our very, very short time on this Earth. And when my grandkiddes are coming over to celebrate the birth of my man JC(the true historical one), I will think of you and hope that you are enjoying the same things as I. 

[Virgil Showlion]

Virg, you don't have to apologize, I understand, the propaganda that makes up a large portion of your suggested reading list is designed to elicit an emotional response.

You've figured it all out, Dr. Ham.

What I was saying was that our birth rate is bouncing back now that we have started to work out a balance in our society with all this new tech, brought on by the information age.

I would welcome any article that justifies this position.

You want to know a huge lie Virg? World famine. Right now obesity is a bigger problem than hunger is and about 50% of the food that we produce goes to waist. That's right close to 50%!! Personally I think its closer to 75% of the food that we produce right now goes to waist.

...and this one.

[frankq]

Regarding half the world's food being thrown away....
www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jan/10/half-world-food-waste

As far as the birth rate, well, it seems that we're on the cusp of letting every Hispanic illegal in America stay, and Obama is in Mexico and beyond inviting the rest to come, so that should take care of that issue......

[Virgil Showlion]

May 5, 2013 7:28:09 GMT -5 frankq said:

Regarding half the world's food being thrown away....
www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jan/10/half-world-food-waste

As far as the birth rate, well, it seems that we're on the cusp of letting every Hispanic illegal in America stay, and Obama is in Mexico and beyond inviting the rest to come, so that should take care of that issue......

Thanks for the article. I admit I'm shocked that agricultural practices are so inefficient.

As for the birth rate issue, I've read a few snippets about a "baby bump" more or less attributable to the above. Immigrants are coming into the US and failing to assimilate, and their high birth rates are ever-so-slightly bolstering the national average.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

You've figured it all out, Dr. Ham. 

Not all.... But it's nice to be right about what ones interests are. 

I would welcome any article that justifies this position.

Marriage-minded do better online than at bars, survey claims(link)

Online dating and the search for true love — or loves(link)

Online Dating Now Second-Most Common Way For Couples To Meet, Study Says(link)

Keys to Successful Online Dating(link)

Does online dating undermine marriage?(link)

...and this one.

I provided three actually.  I see that my friend Q posted the one, here are the other two for you. 

Global report: Obesity bigger health crisis than hunger(link)

India’s wheat left to rot due to lack of storage(link)

[Virgil Showlion]

May 5, 2013 11:10:37 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

You've figured it all out, Dr. Ham. 

Not all.... But it's nice to be right about what ones interests are. 

I would welcome any article that justifies this position.

Marriage-minded do better online than at bars, survey claims(link)

Online dating and the search for true love — or loves(link)

Online Dating Now Second-Most Common Way For Couples To Meet, Study Says(link)

Keys to Successful Online Dating(link)

Does online dating undermine marriage?(link)

...and this one.

I provided three actually.  I see that my friend Q posted the one, here are the other two for you. 

Global report: Obesity bigger health crisis than hunger(link)

India’s wheat left to rot due to lack of storage(link)

I fail to see what online dating has to do with sagging birth rates, but thank you for the articles all the same.

[frankq]

As for the birth rate issue, I've read a few snippets about a "baby bump" more or less attributable to the above. Immigrants are coming into the US and failing to assimilate, and their high birth rates are ever-so-slightly bolstering the national average.

I was being a bit sarcastic about the immigration thing.......not really digging on that idea myself, but I digress.....

[Virgil Showlion]

May 5, 2013 14:42:38 GMT -5 frankq said:

As for the birth rate issue, I've read a few snippets about a "baby bump" more or less attributable to the above. Immigrants are coming into the US and failing to assimilate, and their high birth rates are ever-so-slightly bolstering the national average.

I was being a bit sarcastic about the immigration thing.......not really digging on that idea myself, but I digress.....

It is what it is.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Q, sarcastic or not, it's a true fact that immigration is why the US has a higher birth rate than Canada. I think we differ on the point that Obama was trying to make in Mexico though, almost seemed like he was saying that we want to keep helping make Mexico into a place that you won't want to flee. 

Virg, what we are talking about here is the Demographic-economic paradox.  However, we are entering a new phase of this paradox, one in which developing economies hit a glass ceiling and are forced to re-tool their overall driver of the economy. No one has analyzed yet what can happen when an economy has the capacity to keep growing after hitting this ceiling.  I have and feel that I have a pretty good idea since the one thing that truly matters the most in life is family.

You see the one thing that I agree with you on is that certain groups were trying to do whatever they could to cripple our way of life.

This movement started with far left(socialist) garbage about humans being the plague of the earth.  A good article and some quotes from it.....

Parliament Report Sounds Alarm: Low Birth Rate + Aging = Financial Crisis

“In the past Canada could solve this problem of too few babies, then too few workers by encouraging massive immigration, but can no longer do so for four reasons. 1) These problems caused by past low birth rate make Canada a far less attractive country to immigrate to; 2) the number of babies born in the world has declined every year since 1985-1990 so there are fewer young workers seeking to immigrate; 3) new technology and the improving world economy have enabled most formerly poor countries to improve living conditions so that fewer want to immigrate, and 4) Europe and the US are now competing with Canada for large numbers of immigrants, making it harder for Canada to attract immigrants.”

The key to solving the problem lies in increasing the fertility rate. And beyond making abortion illegal, which will help, Dr. Sassone said, “we must change the attitudes of people towards having babies.”

The mainstream media, and especially the entertainment media is key in the battle. “The media for 40 years has been trying to diminish the fertility rate,” said Sassone. “I have attended meetings starting in 1970 where writers and producers were invited and told they had to reduce fertility to save the world and were offered a prize for the best TV program in the next year to reduce fertility.”

Such ventures may sound conspiratorial, however the evidence for them abounds. One such group “Population Communications International” boasts of their efforts on their website:

 Where we differ is in how much power these people truly have.  On that point, this article above is evidence that the information and tech age added to the diminishing birth rate, that's what you were asking for evidence of right?  So as this "info" that these socialist writers in the 70's put out there started to make it's rounds in conspiracy circles it got altered to suite every different "cause" that was out there.  As the internet came on and grew, the stories spread more, and well you know how exponential growth goes and how on the internet it's x10.....  This is why almost four years ago I stood up and said that all this socialist/Zionism propaganda that is going around needs to stop.  

Now, Internet dating comes in to play here as the balance to all this communicating online and the declining birth rate because of the information/tech age, because as I said before these people don't have as much power as you think they do.

 You see, now that we are in a "baby boomers" trap, globalized liberties are abound and immigration is going to become less and less of a thing(servicing our own economies). The rich that were supporting the concept of the "human plague"  are now looking at losing their wealth and they don't like that. Since all this socialist propaganda is built on BS and has been wrong for years, they are now saying, well we need to build a sustainable future working in balance with the earth's "gifts"(oil, water, food).  Meanwhile the govts are saying, Priority for Canada: More children, with the blessings of the ENTIRE business community, all because of three little birds, er, I mean words... GDP.

Or in other words; all the little kings world wide are going to have to make a place for their "subjects" that promotes the growth of the family unit, or they are going to lose their empires.  Love not war makes more, THANK JC!
  

[frankq]

I think we differ on the point that Obama was trying to make in Mexico though, almost seemed like he was saying that we want to keep helping make Mexico into a place that you won't want to flee.


I hope so. I'm getting tired of stories in the paper (Tribune) featuring interviews with illegals and how they aren't treated fairly at work....And they don't feel as if they have any recourse.......poor illegal babies......Nice fukn country sometimes......

[sunrnr]

Check this one out! Talk about using technology in a new way ...

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

May 6, 2013 17:07:20 GMT -5 frankq said:

I think we differ on the point that Obama was trying to make in Mexico though, almost seemed like he was saying that we want to keep helping make Mexico into a place that you won't want to flee.


I hope so. I'm getting tired of stories in the paper (Tribune) featuring interviews with illegals and how they aren't treated fairly at work....And they don't feel as if they have any recourse.......poor illegal babies......Nice fukn country sometimes......

  I hear ya, I have read a few studies now that point out that we can't rely on immigration in the future and that multiculturalism has failed. Robotics and technology will be a big part of our future without a doubt, they work for even cheaper than the illegals do... Then because of the aging population trap the pro natural growth policies will really start to kick in, robots don't consume so they will need people for GDP.  My guess is that in my kids age group even the middle class will have robot nannies and butlers.

Some interesting info on the current situation though. www.cis.org/ImmigrantBirthRates-FertilityUS

[damnotagain]

Gone and not coming back. You can get a part time job at least over Christmas.

[damnotagain]

Americas biggest company's continue off shore and eliminate jobs!

www.manufacturingnews.com/news/TAA0731131.html

[frankq]

Here's a little something you left out damn......


But after years of pain for America’s manufacturing sector and its workers, some economists and analysts are wondering if the tide may be turning.

Call it “re-shoring” or “rebalancing” or just “revenge,” but the dynamics of global labor, transportation and productivity costs that eviscerated American manufacturing over the past decade have begun to shift again.

Over the past few years, some key American manufacturers have either brought jobs back to the US from Asia and Latin America, or have made important decisions not to relocate them in the first place.

For several years now, the anecdotal data has been tantalizing:

Caterpillar is building a $120 million plant to make giant earthmovers in Victoria, Texas, including some models that were previously built in Japan and shipped back to North American customers. The Japan plant is now free to devote more capacity to the booming Asian market.

Master Lock, in Milwaukee, landed a visit from President Barack Obama in February after its decision to bring 300 jobs back from China.

General Electric reversed a decision to build a new “green” refrigerator plant in Asia and decided instead to invest $93 million in refurbishing a plant in Bloomington, Indiana, saving 700 jobs. The company followed up in 2010 by investing $80 million in a water heater plant in Louisville, Kentucky, preventing another 400 jobs from heading east.


Not to be outdone, GE competitor Whirlpool decided to break ground on a new $200 million plant in Cleveland, Tennessee rather than send the 1,500 jobs overseas. The facility is part of a four-year, $1 billion American investment campaign.

Dow Chemical, the cash register company NCR, Sauder Woodworking and the machine tool firm GF AgieCharmilles have all brought overseas production back to the US market in the past three years

www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/united-states/120504/american-manufacturing-jobs-returning-outsourcing-reshoring

And to continue................

The latest company to decide that outsourcing does not pay is automated tell machine manufacturer NCR Corporation of Georgia. The company recently decided not to renew outsourcing contracts in China and East Asia and instead upgraded domestic facilities to reopen.

“I think you’ll see more of this occurring,” Peter Dorsman, NCR’s senior vice president in charge of global operations, told strategy + business. “You’ll see a lot more people returning manufacturing to America.”

The top reason companies outsource production remains cost-savings, according to the survey. However, a recent study contradicts those findings.

According to a report released last April by Compass Management Consulting, more often than not companies overestimate the savings that will come from outsourcing production by failing to account for the loss of productivity that comes with moving production out of house.

The report found that while a company may pay approximately 40 percent less in payroll costs by moving production to a low-wage country, that move also comes with a 60 percent drop in production, on average.

economyincrisis.org/content/manufacturing-operations-returning-us


But reshoring amounts to much more than public relations. It is being driven by powerful forces and will only get stronger. In a survey of American manufacturing companies by the Boston Consulting Group (BCG) in April 2012, 37% of those with annual sales above $1 billion said they were planning or actively considering shifting production facilities from China to America. Of the very biggest firms, with sales above $10 billion, 48% came out as reshorers. The most common reason given was higher Chinese labour costs. The Massachusetts Institute of Technology looked at 108 American manufacturing firms with multinational operations last summer. It found that 14% of them had firm plans to bring some manufacturing back to America and one-third were actively considering such a move. A study last year by the Hackett Group, a Florida-based firm that advises companies on offshoring and outsourcing, produced similar results. It expects the outflow of manufacturing from high- to low-cost countries to slow over the next two years and the reshoring to double over the previous two years. “The offshoring of manufacturing is now rapidly moving towards equilibrium [zero net offshoring],” says Michel Janssen, the firm’s head of research.

www.economist.com/news/special-report/21569570-growing-number-american-companies-are-moving-their-manufacturing-back-united


No, it's not Nirvana yet, but it's improving......

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

No, it's not Nirvana yet, but it's improving......

Exactly Q.  It's fun talking to short sighted vision, isn't it?  BTW, Happy Retirement Day! 

Damn, from your article...

While the trend is down from its peak, it has not fully abated, and there are many times more outsourcing events -- as per the TAA petitions filed with the Labor Department -- than there are reshoring (or "insourcing" or "onshoring") announcements, as per searches of media stories on www.news.google.com and www.news.yahoo.com.

The first three things that pop up when I search reshoring on google are... America's Re-shoring of Jobs Is Accelerating, Majority of Large Manufacturers Are Now Planning or Considering 'Reshoring' From China to the U.S., Wal-Mart: From offshoring to re-shoring? 

Also damn, there is a reason that I am "pushing" my kids into robotics, what was that again? OH ya... Robots lead reshoring revolution BTW damn, do you realize that Henry Ford raised wages to $5 a day in 1913 because even when he was paying above average wage, he couldn't get people to stand on a dangerous, boring, production line? It's truly amazing that it truly is, you don't realize what you got til it's gone.