Ice Dam on Roof :-(

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Hey All,

We're property virgins in the New England area. This is our first winter in our new house. This is a 2 story Cape with a high-pitched roof. It appears to us (and to family members who are veteran homeowners and DIYers and to our home inspector) to be a very well-insulated house. We have been comfortable here with the thermostats set at 63 and have only used 1 tank of oil so far this winter.

We got 18 inches of snow (on top of the 18 inches we'd gotten at Christmas) on Wednesday.

Today we noticed water dripping from the frame of an interior door.

Traced the water and found a steady stream in a storage eave on the second floor. It's hard to locate the actual source because of studs, insulation, etc. but it appears that we have an ice dam on the roof.

We removed as much of the snow from the roof as we possibly can, but had no luck removing any of the ice running 6 feet up the roof from the gutters to the base of the snow. It's a really tough spot to reach from a ladder and it's far too icey to even try to get on the roof. We did try a This Old House trick of filling old panty hose with rock salt and placing it on the ice so that it hangs a bit over the gutter, but the ice was too slick and the panty hose kept sliding off, LOL.

Unfortunately, even mopping up the water in the eave and using a bucket to catch the drips hasn't been enough to stop the ever-widening water stains on the ceiling in a first-floor bath.

The likely spot is where the main roof of the house joins with a second floor dormer on the north side (i.e., no direct sun) of the house.

Do any of you veteran homeowners have any ideas how we can melt/remove the ice? We have heavy rain predicted for Tuesday which makes everything all the more urgent...

Thanks for any advice you can offer!

[mmhmm]

My suggestion, sad as it might be, would be to get a roofer out to fix the problem. We had a similar problem during an ice storm several years ago, which resulted in melting ice running down the inside of our walls and pouring out onto the kitchen/breakfast nook floors. There is something that can be done to prevent this from happening again. Since we had the roof fixed, we've had a couple of nasty ice storms, but no more leaks.

As for how to melt the ice now to stop the current leak, I haven't a clue, but the roofers you contact just might. Just try to get some good references. You might ask around in your neighborhood. My roofer was from "up north", so he understood the problem and knew exactly what to do.

Good luck! I know just how frustrated you're feeling!

[chiver78]

I second mmhmm's advice. I'm a trustee in my condo complex, and we had a mess of ice dams last year. if you do anything else, you're only putting off the inevitable.

[Lindz85]

What you will need is to have what's called an ice and water shield put under your shingles. Most places up north have this as a code for their area. It's like a black type of sheet that is placed around the edge of your roof, sometimes 3-6 feet up your roof depending on the pitch of your roof. As far as what to do now, I am not sure. I would call a roofer and you will need to have that ice and water shield put on or else it will keep happening.

[TD2K]

bct.eco.umass.edu/publications/by-title/preventing-ice-dams/

Ice dams are a result of excessive heat loss through your roof and poor ventalation in the attic under the roof. The sheathing talked about above will help prevent damage to the roof if they occur but I would rather address the problem.

I'd check how much insulation is in your attic and what the ventalation looks like. If you cut down the heat loss through your living space and then have good ventilation, you should prevent the ice dam from forming in the first place which is the preferred solution.

[Genuine GA Peach]

GRG - check to see if Angie's List has info in your area. If they do, you can get recommendations from them.

www.angieslist.com/angieslist/?af=103001&RefID=PPC:000&s_kwcid=TC|20006|angie's%20list||S|e|6578274881

[TD2K]

How have you liked Angie's list, sounds like you've used them.

[Genuine GA Peach]

TD - unfortunately they don't have much in my immediate area. They do seem to have good info, so I'm sure as more people sign on it will work very well.

I've signed up to review any services I use.

I went to the site looking for a building contractor, but the ones listed are all closer to Atlanta.

I also need to find a dentist (mine retired). The few they show in my area either are not taking new patients or don't accept my insurance.

we are over 30 miles from Atlanta, so it's not surprising that reviews for services here are limited.

I need to take the time to figure out how to post reviews on the local services I do use because I have found several good doctors & an excellent mechanic close to home.

[MN-Investor]

We had something odd happen this winter which had never happened before.

We living in the Minneapolis area and we're used to snow and cold. My DH uses a snow rake to remove the snow from the edge of the roof (about 5' or so?). We had had about 8" of wet heavy snow, followed a week later by 17" of regular snow (the storm which collapsed the Metrodome roof). That was Dec. 12.

On Christmas Eve, I was sitting in the living room when all of a sudden Drip! Drip! You should not hear water dripping in the living room! Water was dripping from the top interior seam of our bay window. My DH was appalled, but quickly figured out what had happened. The two snowstorms had blocked all the roof vents! We had had the roof redone in 2000, and had never had the problem in the intervening 10 years. DH got out a ladder and the roof rake and cleared the snow from the roof vents. While the water continued to drip the rest of Christmas Eve, it stopped at night and, with the dry air now making it into the attic area, we no longer have a problem.

Moral of the story - check your roof vents too!

[Bluerobin]

Toss a cherry bomb or two onto the roof. That will remove the snow. Are there any windows under the leak? That may be where the water is getting in. Make sure the top sash is all the way up to the top of the frame. Do you have attic access? Take a light up there and look for water or white marks. Finally, go to the hardware store and buy a snow rake - they make second story models.

[Artemis Windsong]

My neighbor had this problem. He installed heat tape in the gutter that he can plug in.

For the roof venting problem there is an accordian shaped insulation that can stop the condensation with better air flow. To check your roof vents, try to look in your attic and see if you can see light coming from the sides. If so, your roof vents are open.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Hi All,

Thank you for all of the responses. Here is some additional info:

1. We have a roof rake and DH had removed the snow from the first 6' feet of roof up from the gutters the day we had the snow storm (last Wednesday). He is obsessive about the gutters and yesterday they were clear and open.

2. We have roof vents and they are open.

3. The leak is in an eave on the second floor. The roof is shaped like a very pointy A. The eaves in question are the lower half of the side lines of the A below the cross bar. The attic is above the 2nd floor and, therefore, short on floor area and standing room height.

4. After having pulled out the insulation in the area that was wet, we are fairly certain that the leak is where a rear dormer meets the main roof.

5. Today the spot where the bathroom vent exits the roof (in the same eave) is now dripping water.

6. When viewing both areas from the outside it is clear that they are shrouded in ice.

7. The eave is really, really well insulated. It is approximately the same temperature as the rest of the second floor. The roof in that area is insulated with that styrofoam board with the silver backing. The studs are insulated with R18 fiberglass insulation. The space between the floor of the eave and the ceiling of the first floor below is filled with fluffy insulation (pink colored -- looks like cotton, but I'm fairly certain it is not vermiculite). Even the door into the eave has the pink styrofoam/silver insulation on the interior side. The floor of the attic has fiberglass insulation. It feels like a "tight" house.

8. This is an 85 year old Cape. The roof is about 5 years old. There are no other leaks at this time, nor do we see signs anywhere of previous leaks.

9. Is it possible that DH caused the problem by removing the first 6' of snow in the first place? Should we have just left it alone? Most of our neighbors (lots of Capes and Colonials) have left their roofs alone. Interestingly enough, he only raked the snow from the North East side of the roof because he couldn't reach the North West side. There are no issues on the North West side at this point in time.

10. Headed out to try and chuck some more calcium phosphate or whatever that stuff is onto the ice. I'll check back later for any other advice.

Thanks again!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bluerobin]

Leaks are seldom near where the water ends up! Don't just look near the puddle. Good luck. If you can get the snow off, that will slow the leak then when it dries, the white mineral marks may show where it gets in.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Forgot to mention: we are avid subscribers to Angie's List. Wouldn't use a professional without checking them out on AL first. We've had really good experiences with her top providers except for one.

So, finding a roofer isn't an issue. It's paying for one, LOL. We're hoping to deal with the current problem on our own. It may require professional service down the road, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

We're also hoping that maybe there is some sort of folk knowledge out there about roofs that we are ignorant of -- sort of a "don't rake a roof on the north side of your house" kind of thing that we need passed on to us.

Thanks again, everyone. You know your house stuff!!!

[rick]

10. Headed out to try and chuck some more calcium phosphate or whatever that stuff is onto the ice. I'll check back later for any other advice

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Dont do that, it will ruin the shingles

[deziloooooo]

I would call a roofer....there should be no charge , get his suggestions, don't commit , check around , get quotees unless it is a nominal cost, if so then just do it. Other wise , tell them you will get back to them, then you will know what the problem, most of them, roofers should be slow this time of year,,so you should be able to get a free estimate to the problems...ask before you have them come out so all bases covered.