Report: U.S.-Israel Tested Worm Linked to Iran Ato

[traelin0]

Report: U.S.-Israel Tested Worm Linked to Iran Atom Woes

Unbelievable. Who is in charge of this govt.? This worm's damage is not and will not be limited to Iran. What utter arrogance and complete recklessness on the part of DC. We lock up script kiddies for much less damaging hacking than this.

Read more here.

[djrick]

US forced to import bullets from Israel as troops use 250,000 for every rebel killed

Read more: www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/us-forced-to-import-bullets-from-israel-as-troops-use-250000-for-every-rebel-killed-15050027.html#ixzz1BDJfMNtN

US forces have fired so many bullets in Iraq and Afghanistan - an estimated 250,000 for every insurgent killed - that American ammunition-makers cannot keep up with demand....

"The Department of Defense's increased requirements for small- and medium-calibre ammunitions have largely been driven by increased weapons training requirements, dictated by the army's transformation to a more self-sustaining and lethal force - which was accelerated after the attacks of 11 September, 2001 - and by the deployment of forces to conduct recent US military actions in Afghanistan and Iraq," said the report by the General Accounting Office (GAO)....

John Pike, director of the Washington military research group GlobalSecurity.org, said that, based on the GAO's figures, US forces had expended around six billion bullets between 2002 and 2005. "How many evil-doers have we sent to their maker using bullets rather than bombs? I don't know," he said. "If they don't do body counts, how can I? But using these figures it works out at around 300,000 bullets per insurgent. Let's round that down to 250,000 so that we are underestimating."

[handyman2]

I would not put much stock in the ammo report. I have read it and there is a lot of information missing. The number shows how many were -purchased but does not specifically indicate the usage. Like how many were delivered to other non-us military units in Afganistan and Pakistan or to the UN coalition or Irag. Nether does it address the numbers used in training. The article I read was what I call deceptive.

[handyman2]

I personally would risk the worm over Iran developing a nuclear weapon which if they had one would be more than likely to use it and start WW-3.

[deziloooooo]

Traelin0, you might want to put next to the, "Read more here." a {click on this }..I was all over the page looking for it before I stubled on it. Just a suggestion.
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I feel , if the story is true, better then the alternatives which are many, and as far as the worm causing collateral damage, that those who develop things like this , what ever they are, are also well aware of other problems that would be a possibility and have taken proper precautions if there were such problems.
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"Who is in charge of this govt.? This worm's damage is not and will not be limited to Iran. What utter arrogance and complete recklessness on the part of DC"
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Your outrage is noted but I'll let you be concerned as I go on to other things..and since it's a alleged" Israeli" item and happening, what has DC got to do with it?

Seems liken your looking for another anti what ever as if they even knew about it and most definitely the leadership of the country would be aware of such a secret possibility. Me think you give to much credit for all things happening in the world being known by a few, just isn't the case.

If true, Got to hand it to the Israelis. a tiny State, what is it, 6,000,000 people, 1/2 the population of NY City or so, size of New jersey, if that, what it produces...absolutly remarkable in my estimation.

[traelin0]

If the problems were "contained", then please explain to me why Lieberman was using it as a false flag to rationalize an Internet lockdown mechanism...and why have over 40k computers been affected?

This is sovereign criminality and a complete disregard for personal property rights.

[traelin0]

Dang it dem, I have to find the link.

According to a Symantec white paper, there were 100 000 hosts infected by the Stuxnet worm, and over 40 000 unique external IP addresses in over 155 countries, as of Sept. 29, 2010. Most of the Stuxnet infections were in Iran, with Indonesia a distant second, and India third.

www.infosecurity-us.com/view/13773/many-hands-cooperated-to-build-stuxnet-worm/

Can you imagine if a script kiddie did something like this? LOL the same govt. developing these digital WMDs would be on them like white on rice.

[deziloooooo]

Jan 17, 2011 19:45:16 GMT -5 @traelin0 said:

Dang it dem, I have to find the link.

According to a Symantec white paper, there were 100 000 hosts infected by the Stuxnet worm, and over 40 000 unique external IP addresses in over 155 countries, as of Sept. 29, 2010. Most of the Stuxnet infections were in Iran, with Indonesia a distant second, and India third.

www.infosecurity-us.com/view/13773/many-hands-cooperated-to-build-stuxnet-worm/

Can you imagine if a script kiddie did something like this? LOL the same govt. developing these digital WMDs would be on them like white on rice.

I found this, seems it affected some iranian civilian computors but no damage but just did a quick scan if article. Seems it's till doing its damage though, isn't that to bad. Just possible it would stop any military response which could get nasty.

docstalk.blogspot.com/2010/12/stuxnet-computer-virus-still-reeking.html

[traelin0]

Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park made a really good point when discussing the ethics of the dino-DNA: "We were so concerned about whether we could, that we didn't stop to ask whether we should."

Rogue govts. going off and developing digital WMDs falls into the same category. They can't even cut a budget let alone safeguard a complex worm. At best it is hypocritical that the US and Israel lock up pre-pubescent hackers for much less.

And BTW...where was the Congressional declaration of war?

[deziloooooo]

Jan 17, 2011 20:18:03 GMT -5 @traelin0 said:

Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park made a really good point when discussing the ethics of the dino-DNA: "We were so concerned about whether we could, that we didn't stop to ask whether we should."

Rogue govts. going off and developing digital WMDs falls into the same category. They can't even cut a budget let alone safeguard a complex worm. At best it is hypocritical that the US and Israel lock up pre-pubescent hackers for much less.

And BTW...where was the Congressional declaration of war?

Not thinking either are rouge governments or would not have safeguardas to protect a jumping to other areas , even back firing on them selves.

[traelin0]

dezi, they are declaring war without Congressional approval, and risking the private property of innocents while doing it. That is rogue activity in my book. And make no mistake about it, those of us in the IT industry knew this was a sovereign-researched, viral WMD. All I can do is shake my head.

I can only guess at the numerous consequences of this, but one of them off the top of my head is the fact that DC has zero right to whine about Russian and Chinese infiltration of our power grid with Trojans and worms. This is what is commonly referred to as "moral hazard". A sovereign cannot claim the high ground when they act so recklessly.

[deziloooooo]

trae.. the fact is , I do not believe we or the Israeli's will capitulate and allow the Iranians to get a functional nuclear weapon, no matter which political party is in power, they do have rockets to reach Israel and will also get them from North Korea if needed.
The last thing that is needed is actual military action against them. If this puts some years on the time table till changes, sanctions works, so be it.
They can have a idea where it is coming from. if they feel it's coming from Israel, so be it, the ones in charge are basically at war against them now with their support of Ha mas in Gaza, Hezballah in Lebanon and I don't think the Israeli's care as to how they, Iranians,{govt} feel about them.
While they won't come out publicly, the Saudis, the Iraqi's, Jordan, Palestinians, Gulf States ,Emirates, Egypt are NOT happy with the Iranians having a nuclear capability. I am sure they are not crying and lamenting about the problems the Iranians seem to be having now.
The Israeli's they know, the Iranians with such capability, they do not trust.

[traelin0]

OK, forget about all the above-mentioned issues. Why did Lieberman and Rockefeller use a govt.-sponsored, digital WMD as a reason to allow for the lockdown of the Internet over here???

The more they do, the more liberties they steal from us. Let's face the facts. The NY and Washington elitists are in danger, not the average American. And in order to protect themselves, they are willing to do whatever it takes to preserve their precious assets, empire, whatever.

[deziloooooo]

Jan 17, 2011 23:31:36 GMT -5 @traelin0 said:

OK, forget about all the above-mentioned issues. Why did Lieberman and Rockefeller use a govt.-sponsored, digital WMD as a reason to allow for the lockdown of the Internet over here???

The more they do, the more liberties they steal from us. Let's face the facts. The NY and Washington elitists are in danger, not the average American. And in order to protect themselves, they are willing to do whatever it takes to preserve their precious assets, empire, whatever.

Have no idea what your referring to, give me a linK, I'll read it and if have a thought will give it to you. By the way, which Rockefeller? Lieberman I know.

[traelin0]

Jan 17, 2011 23:41:48 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Have no idea what your referring to, give me a linK, I'll read it and if have a thought will give it to you. By the way, which Rockefeller? Lieberman I know.

Jay.

Committee chairman Joe Lieberman of Connecticut and ranking member Susan Collins of Maine, said incidents like the Stuxnet worm highlight the need for cyber-security reform. The two senators have penned a cyber-security measure - Protecting Cyberspace as a National Asset Act of 2010. It was approved by the committee, but saw no further action. Lieberman said he would make it a "top committee priority" next year.

www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2372952,00.asp

Note that Lierberman's cybersecurity "reform" is based on the Cybersecurity Act of 2009, sponsored by Jay Rockefeller. Here's the latest version from ol' Jay.

thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:s.00773:

[deziloooooo]

ok quick skim... the proposed bill would give the President authority to protect our internet sites or what ever they are if a attack was made on them, correct.since I don;t know what that actually means , a attack on our assetts, property , nation , security, financials alkl those things that are imporant to us ..in this new day of ours when attacks don't have to be a actual invasion of or military action against us, see three civilian planes how it has changed how we live, the cost of, he won, we lost, he accomplished what he wanted to do in spades,
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Sec. 4) Requires the President to initiate a rulemaking to establish a procedure for the designation, as a critical infrastructure information system under this Act, any information system the infiltration, incapacitation, or disruption of which would have a debilitating impact on national security, including national economic security and national public health or safety. Requires such a final rule to: (1) set forth criteria for such designations; (2) provide for emergency and temporary designations; (3) ensure the protection of confidential and proprietary information associated with nongovernmental systems from disclosure; (4) ensure the protection of classified and sensitive security information; and (5) establish a procedure for the owner or operator of an information system to appeal, or request modification of, such designation of that system or network.
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Not knowing all the details of the bill or what it entails, to me, if needed to protect us, why not?
Freedons lost?
If under attack , and as the thing in Iran shows, some have the capability to attack in many ways, not just us to them but back again, wasn;t there supposedly something about China being suggested a few weeks ago?

So whats your problem with this idea of protection. For me and mine, protect us as best you can.

I also believe if we were under such a attack you would be screaming the loudest..why wasn't protection in force.

Oh wait, your going to go some where else.

Well I am not so please Mr. Government, protect me and mine.

[traelin0]

No dezi, I don't rely on the govt. to protect me. I know many do in this country, but I am not one of them. Your reliance on the same politicians to protect you that are literally manufacturing these digital WMDs is astonishing.

Or do you think that Lieberman didn't know the Israelis and US created Stuxnet?

Let's look at the facts here.

1. The US and Israel's govts. manufactured this complex worm.
2. It is set free to destroy Iran's nuclear centrifuges, but (as expected from anyone in INFOSEC) it obviously didn't stop there.
3. In the meantime, upon its release, the politicians in one of these govts. uses the govt.-manufactured worm to rationalize the ability of the POTUS to lock down the Internet.
4. You and the majority of American gleefully support it.

This is the same pattern on just about every issue since 2001 at the least. And you wonder why I am betting on the decline and fall of America. There is simply no rational, individual thought in this country anymore.

[Value Buy]

Where was Trae's disgust when the Chinese hacked into the Pentagon computers?
Was this an act of War, also?

[deziloooooo]

Jan 18, 2011 10:27:47 GMT -5 @traelin0 said:

No dezi, I don't rely on the govt. to protect me. I know many do in this country, but I am not one of them. Your reliance on the same politicians to protect you that are literally manufacturing these digital WMDs is astonishing.

Or do you think that Lieberman didn't know the Israelis and US created Stuxnet?

Let's look at the facts here.

1. The US and Israel's govts. manufactured this complex worm.
2. It is set free to destroy Iran's nuclear centrifuges, but (as expected from anyone in INFOSEC) it obviously didn't stop there.
3. In the meantime, upon its release, the politicians in one of these govts. uses the govt.-manufactured worm to rationalize the ability of the POTUS to lock down the Internet.
4. You and the majority of American gleefully support it.

This is the same pattern on just about every issue since 2001 at the least. And you wonder why I am betting on the decline and fall of America. There is simply no rational, individual thought in this country anymore.

Ok

[traelin0]

Jan 18, 2011 10:47:49 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Where was Trae's disgust when the Chinese hacked into the Pentagon computers?
Was this an act of War, also?

Moral equivalence? BTW, manufacturing a complex digital WMD and hacking into a computer network are hardly in the same league. Please speak to an INFOSEC expert about this if you don't believe me. And don't think for a second that we don't do the same type of hacking.

The facts are the facts. It was an unconstitutional act of war that jeopardizes private property globally, but even more than that, it ratchets up the game many notches above what it has been in the past. It was not espionage limited to a state entity, like your example.

[Value Buy]

Trae, can we agree, that computers and the internet will eventually destroy the modern world and set the world back to a new "Dark Age", equivalent to life in most of the third world of today?

[traelin0]

Jan 18, 2011 11:54:58 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Trae, can we agree, that computers and the internet will eventually destroy the modern world and set the world back to a new "Dark Age", equivalent to life in most of the third world of today?

That's too deep for me this morning. Limit it to pointless conversations about Stuxnet, please. ;D

Seriously though, I need to think about your question because it is way deep and philosophical. I'll post a response later.

[Value Buy]

Trae, think 2012 and the Biblical prophesies.........

Is the internet the anti-Christ?
Should we start a thread on this?
It should get the righties and lefties in a good shouting match......

[deziloooooo]

Jan 18, 2011 11:54:58 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Trae, can we agree, that computers and the internet will eventually destroy the modern world and set the world back to a new "Dark Age", equivalent to life in most of the third world of today?

Your not seriously suggesting we shut them off are you...if we are going own the tubes in a laundry basket as a few,{no names to be mebntioned } at least let us go down surfing and typing...at least we will have company as we go that route.
Especially as wwe discuss calmly {HA} whoes fault it is.{Bush of course}