Fïxîng Sôc. Sec.: A Simple Solution

[Virgil Showlion]

From an e-mail (this concerns Canada, but I suspect the comparison being made is equally valid for our southern brethren):

Let's put the pensioners in jail and the criminals in a nursing home.

This way the pensioners would have access to showers, hobbies and walks.

They'd receive unlimited free prescriptions, dental and medical treatment, wheelchairs, etc. and they'd receive money instead of paying it out.

They would have constant video monitoring, so they could be helped instantly, if they fell, or needed assistance.

Bedding would be washed twice a week, and all clothing would be ironed and returned to them.

A guard would check on them every 20 minutes and bring their meals and snacks to their cell.

They would have family visits in a suite built for that purpose.

They would have access to a library, weight room, spiritual counselling, pool and education.

Simple clothing, shoes, slippers, PJ's and legal aid would be free, on request.

Private, secure rooms for all, with an exercise outdoor yard, with gardens.

Each senior could have a PC a TV radio and daily phone calls.

There would be a board of directors to hear complaints, and the guards would have a code of conduct that would be strictly adhered to.



The criminals would get cold food, be left all alone and unsupervised. Lights off at 8 pm, and showers once a week. Live in a tiny room, pay $400.00 per week and have no hope of ever getting out.

Sounds fair enough.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Awesome...

[Deleted]

I LOVE IT!!!!

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Would pensioners has internet access so to post in this message forum?

[mmhmm]

Too funny, Virgil, and (sadly) too true; although, $400/week is dirt cheap!

[Don Perignon]

From the way the OP was written, the piece seems to focus upon making humane treatment of prisoners appear to be a BAD thing. The pensioners were only thrown in to make inmate conditions look better in comparison.
Once again, the elderly have been exploited.

Logically, someone with no compunctions about exploiting the eldery cannot be expected to have compassion toward the imprisoned.

[Deleted]

anti - the point is that the inmates have better care, feeding and amenities than most folks on social security.

[EVT1]

It makes a great point about the health care debate:

On one side you have a government mandated standard of care for human beings paid for by taxes and on the other you have a for profit organization where the standard of care is an afterthought.

So go ahead boomers- vote to end SS and Medicare, the people you will be screwing are going to be the ones 'taking care' of you one day

[Bluerobin]

This boomer thinks SS and Medicare should be expanded. The simple fix is to make Congress' only pension and health care be SS and Medicare.

[EVT1]

Nov 15, 2011 6:51:21 GMT -5 Bluerobin said:

This boomer thinks SS and Medicare should be expanded. The simple fix is to make Congress' only pension and health care be SS and Medicare.

Amen! Why should they get pensions- let them have the same retirement as the other Federal employees- which is still generous compared to the private sector.

[jkapp]

Well just use the liberal argument: If being in jail is so great, then why don't the elderly just go out and break some laws so they can gain entrance to such a utopia?

[Deleted]

Nov 15, 2011 0:07:37 GMT -5 @rockit said:

anti - the point is that the inmates have better care, feeding and amenities than most folks on social security.

Was social security designed to be the only source of income for people? Of course not.....

Why then is that the only income for so many of our citizens? Could "personal" choices have anything to do with their circumstances?

Bad education?
No skills?
Minimum wage jobs....because that was all they qualified for.....

I believe social security was designed to help.....not to be the answer for retirement

And as far as prisons go....we spend WAY too much annually for the care and housing of inmates. I know some states and counties are making them work for their daily bread....but too many have never contributed anything to society, and have little or no chance of ever being productive

[wyouser]

Nov 15, 2011 13:00:45 GMT -5 jkapp said:

Well just use the liberal argument: If being in jail is so great, then why don't the elderly just go out and break some laws so they can gain entrance to such a utopia?

Darn, somebody figured the "NEW" retirement program out!! As one ages and develops Alzheimers it wont matter once he forgets who he is, where he is and the bars will prevent his wandering off where he might be injured or die of exposure.

[Peace77]

The people who write this stuff don't know how bad it is in prison.

Broken bones go untreated. Medication is denied. You can't see the doctor unless the guard decides that you can. Have a heart attack and the guard does nothing. If you are still alive by the time someone decides to call an ambulance, expect to wait for an hour while they search the ambulance on the way out.

Someone wants to visit you in prison. They will have to pass the dress code, even if they are a 2 year old child. They will be pat down searched and have to go through the metal detector and possibly a drug sniffing dog. Don't bring a gift -- you aren't allowed to bring anything. If anyone has to use the bathroom, the visit is over. After an hour, the guard tells the visitor to leave.

Things such as clothing, shoes, and hearing aid batteries are often out of stock. Prices for phone calls are outrageous and limited to 15 minutes.

Inmates have to go to get their own meals (unless they are in solitary) and there aren't any snacks unless the inmate bought them at the overpriced prison store.

Cells aren't private and I'd like to see how many seniors could even manage to climb up to the top bunk of the bunk bed.

[safeharbor37]

Would pensioners has internet access so to post in this message forum?

Why not? Prisoners do.

Well just use the liberal argument: If being in jail is so great, then why don't the elderly just go out and break some laws so they can gain entrance to such a utopia?

Actually, some inmates got there just that way. The problem with prison is not what the state provides, but the company. Most of the expense involves protecting inmates from themselves and other inmates as well as keeping them incarcerated [protecting society].
Actually, we used to do pretty much what Virgil Sovereign suggests ~ they were called "old folks homes" or "poorhouses." The problem is [as it is with medicaid only supported nursing homes] that the elderly aren't able to take care of their own personal needs.

[Don Perignon]

believe social security was designed to help.....not to be the answer for retirement

Social Security was designed to reduce the number of elderly homeless indigents expiring in hobo camps by the railroad tracks. It was only viable as long as the bulk of the people who paid into it expired before they could draw from it. Advances in modern medicine have extended the lifespan of SS recipients, however, and fewer people are smoking and drinking to the extent that people did 50 years ago...

[formerexpat]

Social Security was designed to reduce the number of elderly homeless indigents expiring in hobo camps by the railroad tracks. It was only viable as long as the bulk of the people who paid into it expired before they could draw from it. Advances in modern medicine have extended the lifespan of SS recipients, however, and fewer people are smoking and drinking to the extent that people did 50 years ago...

To further expand on your quote, when changes in life expectancy, whether positive or negative occur in society, one of two things must occur:

1) premiums are increased to pay for the cost of a longer retirement [i.e. the difference between 65 to 80 instead of 65 to 69] or
2) adjust the benefit stream so that the system can remain solvent and can avoid a mismatch between assets [or in this case payment stream] and liability.

The current method the government is using is to inflate away the PV of those future liabilities. That's a hidden tax to all of us...at least those of us that save.

[mollyc]

Nov 14, 2011 18:59:56 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Let's put the pensioners in jail and the criminals in a nursing home.

2 years ago the director of a local half-way house told me Corrections was projecting that, in ten years or so, the average male prisoner would be a senior citizen with mental health problems, addiction issues or both.

So by default we may well have pensioners in jail and criminals in nursing homes.

[Bluerobin]

Nov 15, 2011 13:00:45 GMT -5 jkapp said:

Well just use the liberal argument: If being in jail is so great, then why don't the elderly just go out and break some laws so they can gain entrance to such a utopia?

That is the plan for when I run out of money and SS and Medicare don't cover enough. So instead of providing the entitlement I earned, you can provide much more.

[Virgil Showlion]

The people who write this stuff don't know how bad it is in prison.

Peace, I've come to read that there is a contrast between US and Canadian prisons. The article pertains to the latter, and few of the conditions you mention are present.

Even in US prisons, much would depend on funding. Here, funding is guaranteed by the federal government—up to 90K per prisoner per year. I guarantee you the care in a Canadian nursing home isn't worth even half that.