So, we have a kill list in D.C.

[Value Buy]

WASHINGTON — American militants like Anwar al-Awlaki are placed on a kill or capture list by a secretive panel of senior government officials, which then informs the president of its decisions, according to officials.

There is no public record of the operations or decisions of the panel, which is a subset of the White House's National Security Council, several current and former officials said. Neither is there any law establishing its existence or setting out the rules by which it is supposed to operate.

The panel was behind the decision to add Awlaki, a U.S.-born militant preacher with alleged al Qaeda connections, to the target list. He was killed by a CIA drone strike in Yemen late last month.
The role of the president in ordering or ratifying a decision to target a citizen is fuzzy.
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44794516/ns/world_news/

[Value Buy]

Cmon all liberals, what say you about this?
This President is out of control. He is Bush to the tenth degree.......

[Tennesseer]

Wanted, dead or alive, by CIA /White House authorizes spies to kill or capture top 24 al Qaeda terrorists on list

December 15, 2002 | By James Risen and David Johnston, New York Times

(12-15) 04:00 PST Washington — 2002-12-15 04:00:00 PST Washington -- The Bush administration has prepared a list of about two dozen terrorist leaders that the Central Intelligence Agency is authorized to kill if capture is impractical and civilian casualties can be minimized, senior military and intelligence officials said.

The previously undisclosed CIA list of targets includes top leaders of al Qaeda, such as Osama bin Laden and his chief deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, and other principal figures from al Qaeda and affiliated terrorist groups, the officials said. "It's the worst of the worst," one official said.

President Bush has provided written legal authority to the CIA to hunt down and kill the terrorists without seeking further approval each time the agency is about to launch an operation. Some officials said the terrorist list was known as the "high-value target list."

A spokesman for the White House declined to discuss the list or issues involving the use of lethal force against terrorists. A spokesman for the CIA also declined to comment on the list.

Despite the authority given to the agency, Bush has not waived the executive order banning assassinations, officials said. The presidential authority to kill terrorists defines operatives of al Qaeda as enemy combatants and thus legitimate targets for lethal force.

Bush issued a presidential finding last year, after the Sept. 11 attacks, providing the basic executive and legal authority for the CIA to either kill or capture terrorist leaders. Initially, the CIA used that authority to search for al Qaeda leaders in Afghanistan.

That authority was the basis for the CIA and military effort to kill bin Laden and other al Qaeda leaders and several Taliban leaders. The newer list represents an expanded CIA effort against a larger number of al Qaeda operatives outside of Afghanistan in countries like Yemen.

articles.sfgate.com/2002-12-15/news/17574155_1_previously-undisclosed-cia-list-approval-for-specific-attacks-qaeda

[Value Buy]

Oct 6, 2011 9:11:58 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Fairly normal thing in military circles. Nothing new. Such lists have been kept throughout history. Surely you don't think Mussolini, Tojo and Hitler weren't on our grandparent's leader's lists. For those into history, remember the wonderful civil war song, "Hang Jeff Davis from a Sour Apple Tree?" I recently read and excellent history about how close it came to just that after Lincoln's death.

When we tack on American citizens without a legal public trial, we have to draw a line in the sand.

[Value Buy]

Temnnesseer, last I looked, Bush is not our current President.
Time to drop the
But Bush,
But Bush,
But Bush,
act.
Or are you saying Bush set precedent and it is ok?
Either way, it does not shine a halo over our current President.

[chiver78]

Oct 6, 2011 9:15:39 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Oct 6, 2011 9:11:58 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Fairly normal thing in military circles. Nothing new. Such lists have been kept throughout history. Surely you don't think Mussolini, Tojo and Hitler weren't on our grandparent's leader's lists. For those into history, remember the wonderful civil war song, "Hang Jeff Davis from a Sour Apple Tree?" I recently read and excellent history about how close it came to just that after Lincoln's death.

When we tack on American citizens without a legal public trial, we have to draw a line in the sand.

you are aware that some of the al Qaeda operatives currently on trial here in the US are actually US citizens, right? if you pair that with the article Tenn linked to re: the kill list in the previous administration, it kind of looks like pretty common practice, doesn't it?

[Tennesseer]

Oct 6, 2011 9:15:39 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Oct 6, 2011 9:11:58 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Fairly normal thing in military circles. Nothing new. Such lists have been kept throughout history. Surely you don't think Mussolini, Tojo and Hitler weren't on our grandparent's leader's lists. For those into history, remember the wonderful civil war song, "Hang Jeff Davis from a Sour Apple Tree?" I recently read and excellent history about how close it came to just that after Lincoln's death.

When we tack on American citizens without a legal public trial, we have to draw a line in the sand.

Think of it this way Value Buy: He received Yemeni-style justice (where he was also a legal citizen).

[Deleted]

Don't piss off the President.

[Tennesseer]

Oct 6, 2011 9:18:25 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Temnnesseer, last I looked, Bush is not our current President.
Time to drop the
But Bush,
But Bush,
But Bush,
act.
Or are you saying Bush set precedent and it is ok?
Either way, it does not shine a halo over our current President.

You'd think Value Buy just discovered a parallel universe. Most if not all presidents have probably had a hit list. Live with it. K?

[billisonboard]

Oct 6, 2011 9:15:39 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Oct 6, 2011 9:11:58 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Fairly normal thing in military circles. Nothing new. Such lists have been kept throughout history. Surely you don't think Mussolini, Tojo and Hitler weren't on our grandparent's leader's lists. For those into history, remember the wonderful civil war song, "Hang Jeff Davis from a Sour Apple Tree?" I recently read and excellent history about how close it came to just that after Lincoln's death.

When we tack on American citizens without a legal public trial, we have to draw a line in the sand.

"On January 20th, 2009, if George Bush and Dick Cheney are not appropriately held to account this Administration will hand off a toolbox with more powers than any President has ever had, more powers than the founders could have imagined. And that box may be handed to Hillary Clinton or it may be handed to Mitt Romney or Barack Obama or someone else. But whoever gets it, one of the things we know about power is that people don't give away the tools." — John Nichols www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/profile.html

I did not support impeachment hearings re President Bush and Vice President Cheney until I watched the video at the above link. I think that hearings need to be held on the Anwar al-Awlaki killing and that either new laws need to be enacted if it is found the the POTUS does have the legal authority to carry out such an act or impeachment charges need to be placed if it is determined the current president acted without legal authority.

[Driftr]

Oct 6, 2011 9:32:00 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Will you still sing that song after the next mass-murder of civilians?

Yes. And I'll sing it loudly so that those who commited the murders can hear me and everyone else singing along with me. That's the only way we stop them from accomplishing their goal of bringing us to their level.

[billisonboard]

Oct 6, 2011 9:32:00 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Will you still sing that song after the next mass-murder of civilians?

I did not support an "Imperial Presidency" prior to 9/11/01. I do not support one now. Following the next mass murder of civilians I will not support one.

[ed1066]

Oct 6, 2011 8:36:18 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Cmon all liberals, what say you about this?
This President is out of control. He is Bush to the tenth degree.......

Haven't you heard? Liberals love assassinations of American citizens without due process now. Just like they love wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, prisons in Cuba and presidents who are owned by Wall Street. All this just since 2009. LOL!

[chiver78]

Oct 6, 2011 9:18:25 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Temnnesseer, last I looked, Bush is not our current President.
Time to drop the
But Bush,
But Bush,
But Bush,
act.
Or are you saying Bush set precedent and it is ok?
Either way, it does not shine a halo over our current President.

but, but, didn't you just say:

Oct 6, 2011 8:36:18 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Cmon all liberals, what say you about this?
This President is out of control. He is Bush to the tenth degree.......

would you make up your mind, please??

[Value Buy]

Oct 6, 2011 9:47:55 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Oct 6, 2011 9:18:25 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Temnnesseer, last I looked, Bush is not our current President.
Time to drop the
But Bush,
But Bush,
But Bush,
act.
Or are you saying Bush set precedent and it is ok?
Either way, it does not shine a halo over our current President.

but, but, didn't you just say:

Oct 6, 2011 8:36:18 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Cmon all liberals, what say you about this?
This President is out of control. He is Bush to the tenth degree.......

would you make up your mind, please??

I have. I draw the line at killing American citizens, no matter how vile they are, without a trial.
I backed the President on the assassination of OBL, although I would have preferred bringing him back alive, and publicly hanging him at the Twin Towers location at high noon, but then, I am not the President.
I admit the guy is a criminal. All I am saying, is hold the trial before carrying out the sentence.
Tenn, sorry for the misspelling of your name. Fat fingers......

[workpublic]

if you are a member of al quada, you are the enemy that we are at undeclared war with and deserve to be killed. those osama thumb drives are paying off.

[Tennesseer]

Oct 6, 2011 11:57:04 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Oct 6, 2011 9:47:55 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

but, but, didn't you just say:


would you make up your mind, please??

I have. I draw the line at killing American citizens, no matter how vile they are, without a trial.
I backed the President on the assassination of OBL, although I would have preferred bringing him back alive, and publicly hanging him at the Twin Towers location at high noon, but then, I am not the President.
I admit the guy is a criminal. All I am saying, is hold the trial before carrying out the sentence.
Tenn, sorry for the misspelling of your name. Fat fingers......

No offense taken VB. It happens to me often.

[floridayankee]

Oct 6, 2011 8:36:18 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Cmon all liberals, what say you about this?
This President is out of control. He is Bush to the tenth degree.......

So we have a POTUS that campaigned on Hope...and Change and doesn't keep his word? How is this any different than any other POTUS?

[djAdvocate]

Oct 6, 2011 8:36:18 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Cmon all liberals, what say you about this?
This President is out of control. He is Bush to the tenth degree.......

have i not said enough?

[fairlycrazy23]

Oct 6, 2011 9:28:33 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Does it occur to many of you that these people are actively attempting to kill you even as you are crying about their rights? If these were harmless people, that would be one thing. Today we live in a world of nuclear bombs and biowarfare. We have thus far thwarted several attempts to blow up planes, an attempt to blow up the Brooklyn Bridge, attempts on the White House and Capitol Hill, what more do you want?

This could be said of virtually any criminal, "don't you people get it they are trying to <insert whatever offense you want> you?" why wait for a trial or court proceedings, just pass judgement and execute the sentence.?"

What more do I want?, court over site when the Executive branch issues a kill order on an American Citizen.
It seems like if the evidence was so overwhelming that he was a traitor and a threat it would have been easy to get a judge to review and sign off.

[Driftr]

Oct 6, 2011 12:00:12 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Sorry I like living and I like my family and friends to be alive too. You, however, can venerate and revere those who wish to spit in your eyes. Like I said, that sculpture of the woman falling to earth should never have been pulled. What a mockery of those turned into barbecues and sky-divers without parachutes that these snakes and vipers should be babied.

Who do you think is venerating and revering those who choose to spit in their eyes?

[Driftr]

Oct 6, 2011 14:47:53 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Anyone who is more concerned with the rights of a terrorist to a criminal defense in an American court than the practical difficulty of neutralizing a rabid terrorist recruiter deep in the wilderness of Afghanistan or Pakistan.

And you are ok that a panel of officials in DC with no oversight is the group that decides who should be considered a rabid terrorist?

[Driftr]

Oct 6, 2011 14:59:37 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Are you okay with the idea that generals conduct wars and not lawyers?

I will answer your question after you answer mine.

[Deleted]

Where do you draw the line?

How much of our freedom is worth our "safety"

Civil liberties seperates us....the ability to speak out against anything, or anyone

I want the terrorists killed....yep....i said it

But i want to make SURE they are terrorists first....and assigning that task with no oversight seems a bit overzealous to me

Some idiot in DC saying someone is a terrorist doesnt necessarily make it so

[fairlycrazy23]

Oct 6, 2011 16:12:58 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

My question is rhetorical only. So far as I am concerned, those who have been apprehended and put on trial are entitled to the protections of the American court system. Traitors and fugitives are not. I referred to Dillinger a while ago. He was a famous bank-robber who was shot dead mid-capture. How are terrorists hiding out in foreign lands any better than he?

That is the heart of this issue, only the executive branch made that determination, that means that a US citizen did not get his due process, if you say he gave that up by his actions, I would agree, but it should be a court that makes that determination.

There is no question if he had been killed in a shoot out or incidental to some other action that is one thing, but the question is can the President order a US citizen be killed without due process?
I'm not saying we should have expended exceptional resources to try to bring him to court, just have legal action to make the determination that he was a Traitor and did present a clear and present danger.

I still think being a Citizen of the United States means something.

[djAdvocate]

Oct 6, 2011 16:12:21 GMT -5 @gdgyva said:

Where do you draw the line?

How much of our freedom is worth our "safety"

Civil liberties seperates us....the ability to speak out against anything, or anyone

I want the terrorists killed....yep....i said it

But i want to make SURE they are terrorists first....and assigning that task with no oversight seems a bit overzealous to me

Some idiot in DC saying someone is a terrorist doesnt necessarily make it so

moreover, being put on that list and targeted is an inversion of every principle of justice we purport to hold.

[fairlycrazy23]

Oct 6, 2011 17:11:04 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

The President has authority as commander in chief of the armed forces of the United States. These are military targets. So far as without due process, what kind of due process did the New Yorkers killed in two separate attacks on the World Trade Center get? Or did you forget 9/11 was the second time?

Is there any limit to the Presidents power as CNC to designate any American citizen a military target?

And it goes without saying that the victims of 9/11 did not get due processes, but the terrorists probably did not swear to upload the Constitution of The United States.

[djAdvocate]

Oct 6, 2011 17:20:27 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

You don't have many civil rights when you are dead. Don't forget, fear of violating civil rights protections put in place after the COINTELPRO fiasco helped assure that a promising line of investigation by FBI agent Coleen Rowley died stillborn. As a result of this, over two thousand people were blown up, incinerated or forced to jump from high buildings to their death on the pavements below.

Imagine the moral weight if someone's squeamishness lead to a repeat performance of this?

again, you have my sympathies, tt. but i shant add to them.

[handyman2]

There has been a tact understanding for many years that one country does not attempt to or assassinate the standing head of another country. But underlings can be fair game. There has been spies and saboteurs who just disappeared and no one gave an accounting. Briton, US, France and Belgium could have taken out Hitler on more than one occasion but declined.
But it is one thing to assassinate a enemy and another to kill a citizen of your own country without a fair trial even if that trial is in absentia.
This is what they should have done in this case then there would be no questions.

[rovo]

One could certainly argue the group "Occupy Wall Street" is a terrorist organization since they are vowing to bring down the American banking system. Does this mean Obama can issue an order to have these people eliminated? I don't see much difference here.