Crisis again.

[newmummy]

Message deleted by newmummy.

[Sam_2.0]

Why would that mess up your chances of finishing the class? I had to take Death & Dying as part of my major, and it was a super rough class. The teacher understood that the material was difficult, and we were allowed to leave a session if needed. Did you get in a fight with the classmate?

I know its a rough class, but with all you have been through I know you can get through it!! Unfortunately that is a very real part of being a nurse, but I think that your background would give you an empathy and understanding that most people just can't comprehend.

[seriousthistime]

Newmummy, when I think of death and dying, I try to look at it pragmatically. Maybe there is something I could learn from the class that would help me in my own journey of acceptance of things I cannot control. I realize I find comfort in odd places. When my mother died, I took some comfort from the show 6 Feet Under, and then I read The Lovely Bones, which also helped.

It's important for you to realize that you may have to help people who are transitioning from living to dying. The only way to avoid death and dying is to avoid life and living. It doesn't help when you have had someone taken from you way too soon, but it might be your fate to receive the training so that you can help someone who will know that you have "walked the walk."

My boss has a daughter in medical school, and when her son was young he went through the phase where he simply could not bear the thought that his mother might die one day. The doctor/mom told him that everything dies. It's true; everything does. Doesn't make it easier, somehow.

I hope I have not offended you or made things even worse. I think that contacting the instructor and explaining your situation might make things better and allow you to finish the class. As for the classmate who told you to shut up, I wonder if she was doing her best to stifle similar feelings of loss and was worried that if you continued to speak, she would lose it too.

[newmummy]

Message deleted by newmummy.

[Wisconsin Beth]

newmummy, you need to sleep or something (types the one with insomnia... ) Isn't lack of sleep/being up at night one of your triggers?

Can you talk to the instructor and/or apologize to the class? Would that help any or hurt if you're on the hitlist? I don't know if it'd be better to keep your head down and keep plugging along or not.

[newmummy]

Message deleted by newmummy.

[mizbear]

You are a better person than I- the last person who told me to shut up in a college level class got a textbook thrown at them- and unfortunately for them- it was my chemistry book, not the text for that class.

That said- See the grief counselor and keep going with the classes before you make any decisions. I would debate the appropriateness of another student telling you to shut up in the first place. I started the LPN program at my first high school before I had to transfer- our instructor would have burned us for that right there. Of course the poor woman also got the 12 biggest female hellions in the high school for the Intro class that year LOL.

If the instructor makes an issue of it over one incident and you have passing grades- I would make an issue back.

I am going to say this though:

You can not turn around every time you hit a speed bump- you will eventually end up going in circles. Not good unless you are a hamster.

[taz157]

Sept 22, 2011 6:51:22 GMT -5 mizbear said:

See the grief counselor and keep going with the classes before you make any decisions. I would debate the appropriateness of another student telling you to shut up in the first place.

If the instructor makes an issue of it over one incident and you have passing grades- I would make an issue back.

I am going to say this though:

You can not turn around every time you hit a speed bump- you will eventually end up going in circles. Not good unless you are a hamster.

Keep going with the class and try the best you can. We're pulling for you! Good luck newmummy!

[Clever Username]

Talk to your professor.
I know we don't have the whole story, but admit that the class is tough for you and ask her advice for moving forward from this.

Either the other student was completely out of bounds telling you to shut up.

Or, strangely, though it was't presented to you in a kind and gentle way. If the class is emotionally difficult. Put your head down and get through it as painlessly as possible. Sometimes the right answer is shutup.

You've lived with the difficult emotions surrounding death and dying for a whole bunch of your life. You already that EVERY time is not the right time for an emotional outpouring. This is not a Lifetime movie. In real life, sometimes the nail that stands up gets the hammer.

One of the great things about nursing is that there are a tremendous variety of applications.

[MittenKitten]

If you have problems talking to her write her a letter. I would say that this class is very difficult for me, I feel I can deal with the issues in a professional setting but the classroom is very different. Also being in a classroom I feel it is inappropriate for another student to tell anyone to shut up.

I would also let her know that you are going to go back to your grief councelor to deal with any remaining issues you may have.

If all your tests and work is doing well I would raise a stink if she tries to fail you with the administration.

Good luck and don't give up because of one speedbump. You CAN do this. Have faith in yourself.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

The other student would have been lucky that I had not smashed his/her face in.

That aside I would speak to the professor in private about what happened. You don't need to go into detail but you can tell her it is especially rough for you because of recent tragedies in your life. Explain what you are going to do to correct the problem, like that you are going to be attending grief counseling.


If she tells you to drop, DON'T. I don't think professors can make you drop a class. You paid for it, you have the right to attend.

If she fails you I agree with others to take it up to the administration and show that you have completed the course requirements. Unless there is something in the syllabus about how if you cry you automatically fail I am pretty sure you would have grounds to contest the grade.

Don't lie down and let her trample all over you, you've come too far to let one professor bully you out of the program.

[rmtvbrooks]

I agree with everyone else...keep fighting your way through the class. If you're doing well on tests and assignments, then one emotional outburst is not grounds to fail you. It's not like they're training you in sniper school, where emotional issues could be problematic! And if you can beat this, think what a confidence booster that will be for you! You also don't want to look back later on and wish you hadn't quit. I think you are right to go back to counseling, though. It sounds like grief is still overwhelming you at times. But you never know what will set off your grief down the road. My husband was abusing our daughter, and six months later, he committed suicide. We'd already adjusted to life without him, so the grief didn't really hit me. I went through the next couple of days, making necessary phone calls and such. It wasn't until Sunday morning, standing in the choir loft (in front of EVERYBODY) and leading the worship time that I lost it. I cried through the whole service. But you can't let that ruin everything for you. You know your professor, and none of us do. But if she seems like a compassionate person (separate that from who she is as a professor--sometimes the toughest professors are very compassionate people outside the classroom), then tell her the class session was difficult for you due to some tragedies that are still fresh for you, but that you're working through it and really eager to be able to help others by being a CNA.

YOU CAN DO THIS. As someone who's experienced more than my share of tragedy in the last year, I can speak from experience--you can survive this if you make up your mind that you will. When I found out about my husband's abuse of our daughter, I had two choices: curl up in a corner and die, or get back up and keep fighting to move ahead and make a better life for me and my kids. You have the same choices--let this kill you, or let it make you stronger in the long run. Some days you will feel you don't have the will to do it. On those days, find someone who can encourage you to keep fighting. If you don't have anyone, let me know and I'll give you my email address and you can contact me. I know how hard it can be to keep going, and I had an amazing support system that made a huge difference.

[reeneejune]

Sometimes how you deal with your emotional outburst after the fact is more important than having the outburst in the first place. I had a teacher in high school (college credit class though) who disagreed with how I wrote my papers... he didn't like my worldview. I wasn't wrong, I just thought differently than he did. He pulled me aside after the first major paper and told me to drop the class before he had to fail me. I declined and stated that I knew I was more than capable of completing the work, even if we had differing opinions. I didn't get spectacular grades, but when I took the Advanced Placement exam, I was the only student from my school (70+ students, most of them a year older than me and the entire top 10% of that years graduating class) who passed the exam with a high enough grade to receive college credit. After that talk about drop/fail with the teacher, he respected me more and left opinions out of grading. And he apologized the next year when he told me that I was the only one to pass.

So what I'm saying is that I think the real test here is how you deal with what happened. Because I'd be very worried if no one ever got emotional in the death and dying class.

[Agatha]

And after over 20 years in the profession, a lot of nurses still cry, some quietly and some silently But, trust me, no colleague is going to tell you to "shut up". I've done it for 30 and haven't heard it yet. It's called being "human".

[newmummy]

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[Wisconsin Beth]

Don't you get a chance to fight the complaint? Have a review or appeal or something? I find it hard to believe that 1 person can file a complaint and an Administration just acts on it, without doing any investigation whatsoever. Because that's a lawsuit waiting to happen...

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Technically I'm being asked to withdraw from the course until I've completed a church-based grief course

Contest it! You have the right to petition for an appeal when you either fail a course or are asked to drop out of it.

Please don't roll over and give up NewMummy. I can understand being pissed off and insulted, but use that towards fighting the complaint against you!

I agree with Beth that I cannot see the administration booting you out over one complaint. You have the right to know EXACTLY what was in that complaint and you have the right to challenge it.

Personally I would be telling them you'll be hearing from my lawyer (even if I didn't have one) over this.

You paid for that course and you have as far as I can tell fulfilled course requriements. Unless Snerd is right and there is way more to the story than you are telling us you should be able to file for an appeal and more than likely win.

[muttleynfelix]

Sept 23, 2011 10:03:17 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Technically I'm being asked to withdraw from the course until I've completed a church-based grief course

Contest it! You have the right to petition for an appeal when you either fail a course or are asked to drop out of it.

Please don't roll over and give up NewMummy. I can understand being pissed off and insulted, but use that towards fighting the complaint against you!

I agree with Beth that I cannot see the administration booting you out over one complaint. You have the right to know EXACTLY what was in that complaint and you have the right to challenge it.

Personally I would be telling them you'll be hearing from my lawyer (even if I didn't have one) over this.

You paid for that course and you have as far as I can tell fulfilled course requriements. Unless Snerd is right and there is way more to the story than you are telling us you should be able to file for an appeal and more than likely win.

You have worked too hard, gone through too much and come too far to let some twit take you down. Fight for it.

ETA - The perinatal hospice is something that is a need even if people have a church. People do not know what to do or say in a situation like that. People in a typical death or dying situation who know what to say often don't have a clue in a situation like what you went through. You know the need is out there, you've lived through it. PLease do not give up on it.

[mizbear]

newmummy- I have emotional outbursts too. It's nothing to be ashamed of. Sometimes- you have said in your case- it means you need some additional work on something.
1. Religious discrimination is illegal.
2. You have already said you were going to talk to your grief counselor. They need to accept that.
3. Another student has been acting inappropriately in class towards you and has not been censured- when I took first year LPN as a 9th grader before I had to move- that would have gotten you kicked out of the program.
4. Threaten them with a lawyer. Appeal. Don't give up.

Everyone is right.

I don't put a lot of stock in church anymore. But I know how it feels to lose someone and I know how it feels to feel guilty to be the survivor. People need people like you to help them- don't let this B**** get in your way-

SPEED BUMP- Drive over.

FWIW- If you decide that this is not for you. Try going into straight counseling w/o the nursing cert. But you are needed in this field.

[reeneejune]

newmummy - You really need to have a sit down meeting with the instructor, your adviser, and the head of the department. Even in religiously affiliated schools, they can not require you to seek solely church based counseling. Especially if there's no one qualified. Very calmly state why you are so passionate about completing this program. Have a plan ready for how you intend to move forward with the program, perhaps after a short break for additional personal prep (i.e. counseling). I can assure you, your teachers, advisers and other faculty don't want to see you fail, especially if they know you've been working hard.

Secondly, remember that story I told about how I asked to drop my college level history class, only to go on to be the only student to pass the exam to receive college credit? It was because I stated in one of my papers that I objected to the way the pilgrims were stereotyped based on their religion by the textbook we used in class. Discussions about how faith and religious organizations influence events, be they in history or modern society are valid, but shouldn't exclude other view points. My public school needed a kick in the butt to allow critical thought on history from a Christian worldview. Yours needs a reminder that not all people rely on a church for their spiritual needs.

Whatever you do, please don't give up. From a girl who has just spent 10 years paying off student loans so that she can finally go back to college and finish her degree, please, please don't let this mess stop you from achieving your goals.

[newmummy]

Message deleted by newmummy.

[zibazinski]

That's amazing that you are having this much hassle. EVERYONE needs CNA's because no one wants to do the work for the pay.

[weltschmerz]

Technically I'm being asked to withdraw from the course until I've completed a church-based grief course.
----------------------
I am beyond stunned that they're allowed to demand a CHURCH-based grief course.

[weltschmerz]

My boss has a daughter in medical school, and when her son was young he went through the phase where he simply could not bear the thought that his mother might die one day. The doctor/mom told him that everything dies. It's true; everything does. Doesn't make it easier, somehow
--------------------------
My son STILL refuses to discuss my end-of-life wishes with me, and he's 27. I'm going to have to have them tattooed on my chest.

[showtime]

I might get burned for this...but here goes

First off...
NewMummy...are you sure you want to be a nurse? I understand the desire to work in a job that pays more...but I think there are better options for you besides nurse. I say this with a grain of salt. But, it appears you give up too easily. No offense. I personally do not want a nurse that gives up so easily. Second, you're too emotional. If you can't handle the stress/heckling/comments by your peers...what makes you think you can handle the pressures of a doctor yelling/screaming/belittling you during a time of crisis. If I was the "wounded patient" in need of critical care, I would not want you as my nurse.

Some jobs require certain mental and physical attributes. I'm sorry, but no matter how good you are...if you're blind, you're not going to get a job being a SWAT sniper. If you're got put to tears because someone made fun of you and told you to shut up, then do you really feel you can handle the pressure of being a nurse. Yes, like any job, there are the easy parts...filling out paperwork. Putting a band-aid on a kid. Giving sponge baths.... But, you don't need training for that. You're trained because when the crap hits the fan and a person comes in with an emergency, you can deal with it.

Second....
You need to learn to point the finger of blame to yourself. Yes...I'm sorry to say this...and it hurts...but sometimes it is your fault. True, your classmate was a jerk to tell you to shut up. But, it still takes a lot to provoke this. Considering none of your other classmates called her out on this and the fact that you left means there must've been a reason for this. The answer may not be one you want to hear. But perhaps you talk to much. Try to flex your "experience" with death. You always want to have the last word. You always want to comment about something. Easy for a person to look at themselves and say..."I don't do that". But, you just might. You may chalk it up to...well, I want to know all the finer details....but in while asking all these questions and making all these comments, you fail to listen to what is being taught. To the point that your classmates need to ask you to be quiet.

Your instructor has the right to fail you for whatever reason she deems. I am 100% in agreeing with this policy. You are training in a field that has no patience for emotional breakdown. Social acceptance is also part of this. Whether you're older or younger is irrelevant. Bottom line, the people your instructor passes must be able to succeed. This is a field where failure can mean someone's life.

Sorry for the long post. But please view this as a wake up call. This might not be the right field for you to work in. Instead there are many more jobs you can focus on. But, in many of the jobs, you need to get/check your emotions and not take them with you.

Best of luck

-Showtime

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

There are lots of hospital jobs that don't require interaction or very little interaction with patients. Medical technologist, radiology tech, ultrasound tech, phelbotomist etc.

[Labcat]

Sept 29, 2011 13:12:18 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

There are lots of hospital jobs that don't require interaction or very little interaction with patients. Medical technologist, radiology tech, ultrasound tech, phelbotomist etc.

All of those are fairly heavy patient contact positions except medical technologist and that one still usually involves some blood draw contact.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I was thinking more along the lines of what she's specfically been having issues with in this post. A tech job would probably be a better fit for her than a nurse.

[Labcat]

Ok, in that case I would go the phlebotomy route. As I understand it you can be certified in as little as 3 months and about 100 successful blood draws. That would also allow for lab assistant as well I believe.

[formerroomate99]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but radiology techs and sonographers generally don't have the same stress levels that nurses do.

Showtime has a point. Even though you are going through a rough patch now and you will be more together in a year or so, nursing is a field where you have to keep your composure under all circumstances. Whatever has happened to you is unlikely to be the last trauma or sorrow you will experience.