Business Talk

[ModE98]

Small business is tough down here. My favorite local restaurant (Oyster Bay) stopped serving breakfast (this was last day). Lee, the owner, is trying to hang on for lunches and dinners, but it is touch and go. Hope he can make it, but they way things are will make it very moot.
So many places closed around city, it is very tough sledding for any small local business to stay alive. Hope y'all can keep on profitably and at least grow a bit at a time as this economy can hopefully improve, however grudgingly. Looks to me a year or two more of plodding along.

[IPAfan]

I was estimating a little high on the answering service costs. I think it might be as little as $200 a month, but I'm thinking of trying to get the answering service to handle all of my calls. This would free up a lot of my time, and I could still probably get it done for less than the $5,000 a year I talked about. I strongly suspect that the yellow pages people are trying to lure me in with a low introductory rate, and will pounce on me next year by doubling the price. I can always cancel if it's not worthwhile to keep going though.

I'm looking at the widest circulation yellow pages. I've not been interested in yellow pages advertising at all until I get this particular offer. Setting up a separate phone number would certainly be possible, but I'm also trying to advertise a number that I can use for several years so that people remember my phone number when they call. I always ask people how they heard about me, and these days it's usually either a referral or through one of my mailers.

[The Virginian]

It might be nice to try out the yellow page ad for a year and see if it pays off

Yellow page Ads are generally very expensive and in most areas you now have 1/2 a dozen "Yellow Pages".

For the most part they are a dying industry. I read about 68% of people now go online when looking for services. On the other hand it does seem to work well for certain types of business - Lawyers, Plumbers, Electricians, Heating & Plumbing.

[The Virginian]

So many places closed around city, it is very tough sledding for any small local business to stay alive

We went to Florida the last two years for vacation. I couldn't believe the number of empty stores. I never saw anything like it.

We decided our first night ( Near Palm Coast) to seek a restaurant by using our GPS. After traveling to about 5 that had gone out of business we gave up on using the GPS and just drove until we found a restaurant.

[IPAfan]

RE YP ads -

My theory has ALWAYS been that this is a dying form of advertising that's WAY overpriced. However, I know that yellow page ads produce call volume. I think a well-designed YP ad could be very lucrative. I've been looking at a professional designer (but sadly he'd charge another $1,800 just to design the ad....it could pay off in spades if it helps me stand out above the competition). I've only spent a couple bucks getting the basic listings in YP before, but I know full page ads can produce some significant returns.

I think price is the huge question. I think for the price I'm getting now this could be a great move, but I know they're just going to double the price on me next year.

I'm also racking my brain over trying to come up with a good YP ad. Most of these ads are poorly designed and are just throwing money away. The more I think of it, it just makes logical sense to hire a professional to design the ad, I just don't know if I can or will bring myself to shell out the extra $1,800.

[The Virginian]

Why not just copy the format of a known successful competitor and plug in your info?

[The Virginian]

Finished Jan down 14% in sales YOY. So far not looking good again.

[IPAfan]

V, I'm sorry to see your sales going down. Any light at the end of the tunnel? I know you've been talking about looking into some alternate ideas/new businesses, any progress on those?

[IPAfan]

I'm getting to the point where I think I need to hire a full time employee. I've been trying to do without one for the last few years. I'm now getting to the point where I leave for work at 7 am and often don't end up back home until 7 or 8. I'm working on weekends too, and I'm still struggling hard to keep up communication with everyone calling my office.

Sadly if I hire a FT employee this is going to mean less money in my pocket starting almost right away. Hopefully a full time employee would eventually free up enough of my time (and improve my response time to phone calls, etc.) so that I could recoup the cost through extra sales.

This is going to mean I need a taxpayer ID number I think (right now I just use my social security number). I hate the idea of setting up payroll, but I'll just have to do this through a company I guess. To start someone out full-time at $9/hr is going to be $1,548 a month + payroll taxes + insurance. I'd plan to set it up so that I have a checklist of a lot of responsibilities in my practice (both clerical and paralegal). I'd like to set it up so the employee would get a raise every time they achieve more productivity (and take more work off my shoulders). So even though I'd start them at basically minimum wage I'd give pretty fast raises provided that everything is getting DONE.

The real question is whether sales can increase enough for this whole scheme to be worthwhile for the bottom line. To meet my goal of increased profitability for myself while growing overhead this much, I'd need to bring in $174,000 in sales in 2012 which is basically an increase of 50% over 2011. January sales were about 100% better YoY, but that includes a big case that probably won't be repeated every month.

One other thing is that $174,000 in sales is possible if I keep my sales FLAT with last year due to a contract I have in 2012 that I did not have in 2011. In January my sales (aside from the contract) are up by about 65%. However, right now I'm so overloaded with clerical crap that I think my sales WILL decline unless I can set up a system to handle the extra call volume, routine requests and letters, etc.

[tyfighter3]

A GOOD Secretary is worth their weight in GOLD.

[IPAfan]

I think I'm going to hire the accountant/bookkeeper I talked about earlier. He'll include the payroll as part of the bookkeeping service. I just need to figure out how to get this started ASAP. I want to hire an employee forthright as I'm busier than hell.

I already do some secretary sharing and it's not cutting it. I think I'm going to take the leap and just hire a full time assistant. I've already told one person I'd give them the job...not sure how it will pan out, but my eventual goal is to have someone who can help me with ALL the non-lawyer stuff.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Glad to hear that some work looks like it's on its way deminmaine. What was it that you operate again, I apologize if you have already said.

IPA sounds like your going to start making some sweet cash once you get your office in order. An assistant sounds like a better investment than advertising. Wxyz was mentioning in the long term thread that you might look at on office building/living space?

[IPAfan]

Looking at hiring a full time assistant now, but not sure how long this will last. Also talking about continuing to share office/secretary with another attorney, but possibly do some splitting of the cost of the new full-time assistant.

I'm looking at adding yellow pages ads and possibly spending more on the direct mail advertisement that I'm already doing.

Also going to try to get taxes done and look at buying a house. There's one that's at the high end of our price range, an acre in the town we want to live, 3500 sq. ft house built in the 60s. I was hoping for newer, but this could be an interesting long term place to live. Will keep looking.

[IPAfan]

Decided to take a pass on the Yellow Pages even though I was getting a good deal. Just don't see the need to get sucked into a dying form of advertisement. I know the salespeople are just trying to get me hooked so they can double the price next year.

A few things I dislike about yellow pages are: 1) it's a dying industry; 2) it's ridiculously saturated with lawyers; and 3) people keep old phone books so you need to advertise for YEARS until you're reliably in the phone book when a potential client looks through the book.

I think I can probably grow my business by devoting the cash I would have spent on yellow pages to improving my direct mail campaign (by sending better quality mailers rather than sending to more people).

Working on hiring a secretary too. I got a candidate who will at least do the job for a couple months...I'll probably need to look for a more permanent solution later on.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

That's a great decision on advertising IPA!! The house you are looking at sounds interesting.

Let us know how the secretary works out, the one thing I know about having employees is that you don't want to try to hard to make someone work out. They either will or they won't...

deminmaine.. Nice!! I believe that custom manufacturing is going to be huge going forward. Unique remodeling, ect, ect.... Kman is into the custom construction industry too.. Showers is his thing.

[The Virginian]

few things I dislike about yellow pages are: 1) it's a dying industry; 2) it's ridiculously saturated with lawyers; and 3) people keep old phone books so you need to advertise for YEARS until you're reliably in the phone book when a potential client looks through the book.

Also add ( at least in our area) there are 6 different phone director is that are published each year!!! We have the regular pages, the Donnelly Directory, the Hispanic phone directory, and three local and regional directories! They are so diluted it's crazy. 68% now search online for services - that's where you should concentrate. Not just a Website - but active online marketing.

[IPAfan]

Feb 14, 2012 8:49:51 GMT -5 The Virginian said:

few things I dislike about yellow pages are: 1) it's a dying industry; 2) it's ridiculously saturated with lawyers; and 3) people keep old phone books so you need to advertise for YEARS until you're reliably in the phone book when a potential client looks through the book.

Also add ( at least in our area) there are 6 different phone director is that are published each year!!! We have the regular pages, the Donnelly Directory, the Hispanic phone directory, and three local and regional directories! They are so diluted it's crazy. 68% now search online for services - that's where you should concentrate. Not just a Website - but active online marketing.

That's what I need some advice on. I have not brought in a single client from internet advertising as far as I'm aware. I have a website which now comes in around the BOTTOM of the first page on google.

What sort of active online marketing do you advocate? Stuff like google adWords? these are really expensive (like $50 a click) for my types of ad words...might be worthwhile. Otherwise I really have no idea how to advertise my services online.

[IPAfan]

Business continues to be very strong going into February. January and February were both good months in 2011, but 2012 seems substantially better so far. January was almost 100% better YoY, and February looks like it will be at least 50% better YoY even though February was my 2nd best month in 2011. The past 3 months have been very profitable for me, and I can only hope that business continues to go this well. I'm expecting some slowdown just due to the fast business momentum.

The other odd thing...the last 3 months have been HUGE and it's been almost completely referral based business. My advertising has only brought in about 20% of my revenue. So clearly the referrals are going well and I need to keep up that end of the business plan. On the other hand, I'd like to bump up my advertising. Referrals ebb and flow, and I need some advertised revenues to pick up when the referrals do begin to ebb.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

That's kick ass your practice is going so well IPA.....

The other odd thing...the last 3 months have been HUGE and it's been almost completely referral based business.

That's not odd at all. That means that you have made it. When you can sustain your business JUST off your name, you have nothing stopping you except yourself!!!

I am thinking about getting my real estate license, the VC firm I work for is small, and now that this land project is wrapping up I'm looking at a few months of nothing to do. If I am in my better halfs hair all day for that long, we will be divorced by the time the next project is ready...... ;D

Also, I figure it is a great way to meet some new clients because it's not a conflict of interest to do both...

[The Virginian]

Our retail business down 15% for Feb and 15% YOY. No recovery here!

[IPAfan]

Revenue was actually up over 100% YoY in February. Even though I'm spending a little less in advertising, my overhead is up by about $1,500 a month compared to last year. Net profit this month was more than I made in all of 2009. About 2/3s of what I made in all of 2010 (my first full year of practice)

February has been a strong month for me in the past, so I expect earnings to drop off substantially over the next few months. I certainly wouldn't mind another few months like this

[The Virginian]

Sales down 47% for March so far and
19% YOY.

Not looking good so far.

[IPAfan]

So far business is just getting better and better. Unfortunately I'm ridiculously busy and DW is pretty angry that I'm away all the time. That's pretty much the plight of a small business owner sadly. If I neglect the business it starts to shrink. I expect we're going to slow down just because this business is feast or famine. It's definitely been "feast" so far this year. I've made 2/3s as much net profit YTD as I made in all of 2011. I'd be making over $200k net in 2012 if things continued at this pace (which I suspect they won't).

[The Virginian]

Well it's official - Our business has been put up for Sale. Our lease expires April 2013 so we decided to start now.

If we don't sell by October (After Halloween) we are going to start liquidating the inventory by have going out of business sales.

We are hoping to sell though as it will be a lot of work liquidating the merchandise and disposing of shelving and equipment. As a result if we can find a buyer we will give them a great deal, basically inventory at below wholesale and everything else free. It will be a great deal for someone but it is time for us to move on.

[Driftr]

Sorry to hear that man.

[The Virginian]

Thanks,

I just am getting too old to keep going like I was. A younger and more energetic person can make a great business out of it, especially when the economy comes back but for other personal reasons I am not willing to put the time in.

[beenherebefore]

Sorry to read this, Virginian. What type of business is it?

A wise person know's when it's time to make a move.

[IPAfan]

Everyone seems to be posting that they're sorry that you're closing up shop V. This may sound wrong, but I'm GLAD you're closing up shop.

You've been posting negative numbers for a while now, and honestly I KNOW you have what it takes to run a great business.

Great business owners know when to cut their losses and move on to the next idea. I think you have what it takes to be a great business owner. I think that closing up this business will free up the time for you to start a business which will thrive in TODAY's economy. I hope you don't take this post the wrong way...the world is your oyster so find a pearl!

[The Virginian]

We have a Party Store. ( Like Party City) - Yes I have mixed feelings also. This was my Baby and we were doing very well until 2008. I know things will bounce back some day but due to some other personal reasons I think it is best that we move on. Retail is a very competitive environment and the older I get the less energy I have to devote to it. This kind of store constantly changes with each season, not like some stores we have a massive inventory that we must change out or add to each little Holiday.

I thank all of you for your comments but I'm not really retiring just yet, I am into investing and now I'm going to get more into Real Estate and have some fun there for a while.

[ModE98]

Best of luck to you, Mr. V. All things have their time, and their end. Continued success in your investing and RE actions.

Yes, once this closing is over and done, relax and have that "fun" you so well deserve.