Business Talk

[smackdown]

Basically-- the Ad Cartel made [lazy-minded] hired-in executives believe that buying commercial advertising is the only way to hold the false front up. No one really pays attention to commercial ads and NO ONE runs out to buy anything they pump. We've grown so numb to them that we only pay attention to the banner ad when it retards our download from a graphics overload. Super Bowl ads? I rest my case.
Much like Wall Street, Madison Avenue is wholly bogus and filled with shifty hustlers. Why do you think vintage stuff sells? It's the last known benchmark for quality people are comfortable buying. NASCAR? Isn't that the sport that uses massive amounts of gasoline when we're supposed to be running out? How many cents per gallon is America paying in ransom just to see some platform company's logo drive around in an oval for several hours?

[kman]

I dunno V_L...I have people e-mailing from freakin Malta! asking me for stuff because I marketed my product with the customer in mind. ...I don't need a super bowl add...or 5th ave to reach the world....True business....I guess I posses the marketing gene.

[lifewasgood]

Effective Advertising is getting harder to pull off. Internet is becoming a spamming nightmare, Advertising Agencies are looking for a payday without the responsibility of sales, and the boob tube is way too expensive for small businesses.

I guess I will continue wondering in the advertising darkness until I can see the light of effectiveness. Not there yet!

[The Virginian]

Effective Advertising is getting harder to pull off. Internet is becoming a spamming nightmare, Advertising Agencies are looking for a payday without the responsibility of sales, and the boob tube is way too expensive for small businesses.

I guess I will continue wondering in the advertising darkness until I can see the light of effectiveness. Not there yet!

I agree - Effective Advertising has become a game for only the rich and famous.

Television - Unless you are lucky or smart, cunning enough to get your business on the 6 O'Clock news (Hopefully in a positive way) this media is very costly.
Radio - Way too many stations in our area to cover them all - and with satellite radio its become even more of a challenge.

Mail - I tried it but the response didn't pay for the cost.

Newspapers - Unless your target audience is the 70 - 80 year olds forget it and their readership is declining every single day!

Yellow Pages - On line or print - a useless waste of money - DOA!

Social Media - I really haven't figured this one out yet - I suspect it is becoming saturated much like the Internet which will dilute its effectiveness

Internet - As you mentioned you are mostly throwing dollars into some electronic bliss. I have found that doing it yourself - although time consuming is the most cost effective way. With so many do it your self Web Site tools like "Web Site Tonight" & "Square Space" it is easy to do. Combine that with a couple of free blogs and you can drive traffic to your site. It is very time consuming though and you will have to dedicate several hours a week to the project.

Goggle and other Ads - Very expensive - Clicks are costly because they are so competitive and your conversion rate is usually low - This method works but unless you have the budget for experts or you have someone working on it full time it can cost you more than it brings in.


I would love to hear comments from others on this subject, especially if you have found a cost effective way to advertise your business. It would be of a big help to many struggling small businesses!

[smackdown]

Sorry, just me again. I also put a "basic" (not full-color glossy complex) flyer in my shipped goods. It just reiterates my links and reminds them of my everyday service features. Repeat business is robust enough to rely on. People are most receptive to postcard style ads that get to the point in as few of words as possible.

Malta-- I have had Australian Tourists vacationing here ask for a special opportunity to walk through my store (which is not open to the public). They tend to marvel at seeing something they remember in my catalog up-close. One actually recommended me to an entity there and helped negotiate the business arrangement. No one cares how big and gaudy your business is, they tend to marvel at how simple the set-up is that delivers extraordinary services and products.

[The Virginian]

I also put a "basic" (not full-color glossy complex) flyer in my shipped goods. It just reiterates my links and reminds them of my everyday service features. Repeat business is robust enough to rely on. People are most receptive to postcard style ads that get to the point in as few of words as possible.

Excellent Input VL - Thanks!

[The Virginian]

chamber of commerce

The Chamber in our area loves giving out rewards to Walmart so that should let you know where they are coming from!

[smackdown]

"On the local level, billboards can be a good advertising tool, especially a package deal for a number of them used as part of a long term campaign if the particular city or area has a good number of well located smaller more affordable billboards in prime customer and high traffic areas."

"where is the kiwanis, chamber of commerce, relay for life, Little League and other community groups who live, spend and talk to everyone in your area?...are you supporting your community?....so they support you?"

Hey LOOK everybody... ANTIQUE perspectives! Billboards-- what? Are you trying to distract all the highway texters? Community groups? What's that? Those are business puppet enterprises tapped and graphed for network contacts. REAL businesses don't go where manipulators commonly tread. It's counter-productive.

[The Virginian]

You Know Frank you are making a good point! Instead of rejecting these A holes I should embrace them and put them to work for me and my business! I'm going to come with a plan to do just that and when I'm through I don't think they will know what hit them!

[smackdown]

"Eat shit and die...on another note if your Chamber is not responsive...go to the historical society, cultural society and the non profits...start a civic association and do good deeds with others...you'll get plenty of attention and your Chamber will give you a second look...but don't let coop what your doing...and what are you doing?...becoming a sphere of influence for good deeds!"

Sorry, that's your lunch, not mine! In a world wrangled by New World Order and Irresponsible Social Networking, avoiding "groups" prevents them from learning your capabilities and compromising what you can actually do. It would work more like a spear of pestilence than a sphere of anything useful. A great business attracts mice, not lives in their feces. If advertising and/or networking were worth anywhere near anything, there wouldn't be racks and racks of clearance items in every retail big box and subprime credit to trap the ignorant into longer-term-than-worth car deals.

I know a guy that makes hand-wound pickups for guitars. He can only make so many a day and does. Orders are TWO YEARS in advance. He has never advertised at all, he just puts them on the guitars of people who play- not invest- in quality instruments. He's had several offers to take his craft to a unit producer and doesn't even respond to them any longer. These are the types of businesses starting up across America. They aren't plastic or highly administrated, just genuine. It's all Americans are really after.

[OldCoyote]

Virginian, here is an idea for e-commerce. In my business I do a fair amount of prototype work.
I am always looking for services, tools, or parts on the Internet.
The trouble with this is you are directed to sites somewhere other than where I am. I know many of the supplies are here locally, but it does not show up.
What is needed is something between Amazon.com and Craigslist, showing local products and services.
Any thoughts or improvements on this?

[The Virginian]

Hi Oldcoyote,

I'm far from an expert on the Internet but as Frank said most search engines have a local component.

When doing a search go to : Google Local, Bing Local, Yahoo Local etc. to do your search.

Also when you are searching for say parts make the geography part of the search : Example : "Cool widget Manufacturer in Texas"

Of course a lot of companies go to great lengths for people in every state to find them so your results may not always come out as you wish.

[smackdown]

"over 60% of all business media dollars are now happening in social media...if people don't know who you are and what you do...how will they know to do business with you?"

Banners are selectively ignored. If you have no existing reputation or a quick billion in optimization monies-- you are invisible. This would throw back to the E-Bay comments. Everyone is literally equal there, so using counter-cyclical marketing blows away everything else IF you actually want sales. It's not who you know any longer, it's if they know they need or want you when you cross paths. The internet eliminated the trap of social network groups.

"What is needed is something between Amazon.com and Craigslist, showing local products and services. Any thoughts or improvements on this?"

Funny you should ask. This would be a customer perspective question dove-tailing directly into what I'm describing. If you input a simple or general key word, E-Bay, Amazon and the other optimization vampires come up first. Then you scroll to find more elaboration. Experienced frustration will input more key words so-- structuring your product offering using just key words, literally propels you ahead of the rest and often trumps the optimizers. It isn't supposed to make perfect grammatical sense, it's supposed to cross paths with a search mission.

[smackdown]

I don't know about that, Frank. You press a button for a living. Everyday I wake up and build the premise for profit from scratch. You couldn't do the same if your life depended on it. Guaranteed. All lip and no balls hardly qualifies your expertise as anything but.

A reminder-- Virginian-- that YOUR business was the one that only made $1.79.

[The Virginian]

A reminder-- Virginian-- that YOUR business was the one that only made $1.79.

Yes , Afraid I'll own up to that - but it was the Monday after the Hurricane hit and most people around here didn't have power. I guess everybody assumed no one had power that day. In fact that whole week was a wash but Halloween is a coming and it will be our time to shine!

I can already see signs that business is improving as of today we are ahead of last year in sales for the month of September - Even with the Hurricane we are increasing sales so that is a positive sign to me.

But this thread is about helping each other to improve business so I want to stick that if we can. Any one who doesn't think they can learn from others is only hurting themselves.

[kman]

Everyday I wake up and build the premise for profit

Frank doesn't work with hypothetical

[lifewasgood]

assumptions are the foundations of all F__K ups...and "I" would say as usual you assume too much...you are trapped by your own convictions which happen to be very imprecise.

Unlike you "I" can't actually use the word "Guaranteed" unless it is.

As far as creating value or what ever from scratch "I" do way more than that...and "I" do have have the largest LinkedIn networking group in the United Staes with many executives and CEO's that sing my praises.

Why Oct 4-5 "I"ll be in DC with appointments with over 20 congressional and senatorial members who are reading my "Economic Treason" letters from 2 years ago......on yeah did you remember that Rick Perry ran the Al Gore campaign?...didn't think so...well two things about me..."I" got lots of friends in high and low places...and er the other thingy..."I" never give up...see you around sometime..."I" am still pushing my dime

Frankie, my man, if you were all of that, what in the heck are you doing posting on a whacked out message board such as this.

[smackdown]

This message has been deleted.
Update August 18, 2011

Addendum 1

Posts that:


are designed to bait someone into saying something against the CoC
are filled with insults
are deliberately inflammatory towards another poster


will be deleted.

Further actions, such as bans, will be determined by moderators depending on severity.



Addendum 2

Posters who choose not to use the IGNORE button for posters they do not care for should not expect moderators to be overly sympathetic to complaints that are not serious in nature. If there is a threat made, or a real personal attack, then yes we want to hear about it. If, however, you just don't happen to like them/ their point of view or feel like they are 'picking on you', we are probably not going to get involved.

[bimetalaupt]

Sept 8, 2011 18:58:47 GMT -5 @franktheimpaler said:

Its fun..."I" have friends here who actually know who "I" am and what "I" am.....so what would you know about what "I" am?

Frank,
Yes I know you...You wear a blue shirt!!!! Live in the same part of Queens by Dad's folks used to live.. Forrest Hills.. My Aunt used to own the Deli across from the Tennis club...My grandmother had a Hot Rod 1933 Harvey Earl Buick.. Banker's Hot rod... And you drive a vet!!!
I was born in Brooklyn but move when I was 10 days old to Jamaica, Queens.
Bruce

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

FTI is real there is no doubt about that!

Mr.V working your community is a great idea! There is a little pizzeria here that does no advertising, just works with the schools, football teams, figure skating clubs, hockey, baseball.. ect. He has pics of all the people in the community that come into the store under glass on the counter top.. He has received a couple community awards(up on the wall); plus he's only working a community within the community. 10k out of 250k. Homers Pizza same thing just went city wide.. We have autobody shops that do it, ect,ect.. It's like the Impaler says, they always seem to last because the people want them around.

Also V, your right with what you're talking about earlier in the thread. Smaller stores, with more storage. People can order, come in, pick up. Or ordered from the store and come back and pick up. Or have it shipped to their home from the store. Food at the food court, old but new..

Check it!

Amazon.com teams with 7-Eleven for pickup
blog.seattlepi.com/thebigblog/2011/09/08/amazon-com-teams-with-7-eleven-for-pickup/

Work the co-op warehouse, smaller stores, with all the good impulse stuff, JMO.

[The Virginian]

Look I'm up for a good argument about business or any Market Talk subject , I'm also up for some good fun but accusing FTI to be a Phony is just absurd ..... and I know for a fact that VL knows better!

Frank's idea about community networking to promote business is a great one. One that sadly I must admit to having shunned groups around here because I always thought of them as leeches wanting something for nothing. I am reconsidering my thoughts however. As I do look around some of the most successful businesses are the ones that embrace their communities, they give expecting nothing in return and in return receive back ten fold. Its simple but I believe FTI is right.
In fact I immediately wrote a piece on our blog stating that we are willing to support the Non-Profits and the charities if they were interested in having Themed Parties for their events. If done correctly the charity and our business will gain from the relationship; as well as our community.

I am also working on a long term plan to reach out to these organizations whether I believe in their cause or not. Will it work? I don't know, time will tell, but I do know what I am doing now is not working as well as I want.

Yes, we did great in the good economic times but it seems you have to have friends and good relationships to get you through the bad economic times!

Thanks to all that contribute your thoughts and inputs for I know that you are not just helping me but a host of people that will read these boards!

[usaone]

VL knows better. He is upset that the predicted collapse that he thought was imminent didnt happen.

He will be even more disappointed in the coming weeks and months.

[Small Biz Owner]

VL knows better. He is upset that the predicted collapse that he thought was imminent didnt happen.

He will be even more disappointed in the coming weeks and months.

You mean the beginning of the collapse, we are currently in?

DOW down 500 points since Jan 2011

DOW down 3,200 points since Fall 2007

[Small Biz Owner]

Coming months? You mean when 7.9 Billion a month is removed from our economic GDP in Jan 2012 when federal extended unemployment payments end?

[smackdown]

One of the main things to remember about any "organized" networking group is that-- they're organized to benefit themselves first. Never kid yourself about the ulterior motive of it. I am selfish... I want to make profit for myself and my family, not aid some blood-sucker who otherwise would be called shady for his/her intrusive practices. The aim of a business is pretty simple-- to make enterprise that appeals to others in such a way that they pay for your product or service. That said-- we are overwhelmed today with pariah who read somewhere something about sharks, the art of war and are aggressive predators, not hunters. People know this. Go back and read up on counter-cyclical marketing.
One thing I don't have is-- time to waste. As I said, I'd much rather stumble across a Founder with dirty hands and simply watch and learn what I can. The Internet is supposed to be a tool, right now, it's a weapon because there is broad Chaos founded mainly in anonymity. Never forget the story of the woman who's website was hothothot.com. She sold homemade hot sauce. Think through her diabolical strategy.

Retail with a storefront. I have a very long history in credit. I know Main Streets entirely different than most people. The composite of businesses on a Main Street foretells the future of the area and it's value integrity. A sure sign that a Main Street is losing ground is a marquis that contains the word: Antiques. Another is: Thrift. These types of businesses occur in the Mature arc of the area's life cycle. That said, the lease rate range for these types of businesses also attracts Birth Stage Change businesses that help lead us out of a recession and help Mature areas become Cool areas. I don't need brick and mortar for business, but I'm trying very hard to spot the up-and-coming Cool area and look to plant myself there.

Small Biz Owner... good to hear from you again! Please consider adding more to this thread.

Disappointment. Not. My business graph looks pretty good.

[lifewasgood]

A sure sign that a Main Street is losing ground is a marquis that contains the word: Antiques. Another is: Thrift.

And when the City Council wants to restore instead of bulldozer to the future.

[The Virginian]

We have had about 6 new Consignment shops spring up around here in the last couple of years. There is no doubt that many are struggling but we are a long way from going back to anarchy.

No matter what life goes on and the businesses will flourish and the stock markets will expand. Are we at the bottom yet? Probably not but it gives us further to go up when the time comes.

[lifewasgood]

Lifewasgood,

Do you mind if I ask what kind of business you are in?

I have no desire to reveal too much, however I had 2 distribution companies, but just sold my shares in one of those and 2 service companies of which I still operate. I am going lean however and will be down to one service company and one distribution by next year. Unfortunately they are in completely different fields and touch to combine or I would.

I have some very exciting new products coming on-board soon, but won't say much more than that for competitive reasons.

A bad day of working for myself...is better than a great day of working for someone else. Kman, yup even when I pull my hair out.

[bimetalaupt]

Life,
You sound like me.. I keep getting calls from German Chemical firm about our R&D Oil refining system for making Lubricating Oils from Algae (B.Braunii).. My answer is .. We are setting up distribution channels but telling that what.

My brother tells them it is my cat and mouse game....Very technical ....

Just a thought,
Bi Metal Au Pt

[smackdown]

I keep an e-file of Chinese unsolicited solicitations. The sender names change but the content is the same. Anytime I want to undermine some brand, they are happy to ship me quantities of labeled knock-offs.