Which order is best?

[Formerly SK]

I lost 55-60 pounds in the last two years (from size 18 to size 4) mostly through diet. In the past six months or so I've been learning about lifting weights and really like it. I actually like it more than cardio and so my workouts now have very little cardio.

That said, I know cardio is good for you and I want to incorporate it. But, if I do it before lifting I would think I'd be too tired to lift. I *know* I can't do it after lifting as I'm barely able to walk to my car afterwards, let alone hit the elliptical.

So what order is better? Should I sacrifice some of my strength and do cardio before lifting?

[shandi76]

Congratulations on your weight loss

I do weight training twice a week. Once a week it is without cardio (just weight training) and once a week it is after an hour of cardio. I sometimes find I can't life quite as much weight after the cardio session, but I prefer that order.

How long have you been working out regularly? If it's been less than a year, or you haven't been going 4+ times a week or doing long enough sessions, you might find you can increase your fitness further over the next 6 - 12 months, making it possible to do both cardio and weights in one session.

If you don't like cardio much, one option would be to do weight training at an intensity that gets your heart rate into the cardio zone, so you kill two birds with one stone. I've just started checking out kettlebells, which give you both a strength and cardio workout at the same time, if you do them correctly. I wouldn't recommend trying them without expert instruction though as you can potentially do more damage than with weights machines.

[Formerly SK]

Thanks Shandi. That's a good point about overall fitness. With two young kids (one with autism) I don't get to the gym as much as I'd like. Only 2x week usually (both times I lift with whole body) and I've only been doing this for 6-9 months (with loooooooooog breaks when illnesses move through the family). So, I could definitely see the possibility that as I get more fit it will be easier to do both cardio/weights in the same session.

[Artemis Windsong]

I don't like cardio much, either. When I am in total cardio rebellion, I convince myself to do just 10 minutes of something, do 6 machines and another 10 minutes and so on.

I do cardio on opposite days with the ideal being 45 to 60 minutes. I rotate between the treadmill, 3 step precor, recumbant bike and stationary bike.

One day a week I lift weights then play tennis for 1.5 hours. I reduce the amount of weight and number of reps on everything.

For the times you cannot get to the gym, sit ups, push ups and plank can get you through. Mountain climber and burpess are good, too. This routine is also nice for the 12-week break where other exercises besides weight machines are done. Yoga is great for fill in times.

I don't know how old your children are but when the weather gets better, about anything the kids play can be a work out. Soccer, basketball, volleyball.

Congratulations on the marvelous progess you have made and best wishes in the future.

[azphx1972]

I used to do cardio after weights (circuit training), but ever since I stepped up my weight training, I've been doing cardio beforehand just to get it out of the way. It also serves as my warm up, and I too found that I don't have nearly as much energy to work on cardio after weights. YMMV.

[Deleted]

I do cardio after weights and I feel it's best but that is me.
Since I am into powerlifting, I have all my energy at the beginning of my session to lift as heavy as I want; which would not be the case if I did cardio first.

[Deleted]

Also Congrats on the weight loss

[pig]

If you're looking to lose more weight cardio blows lifting out of the water for that and is the only way to get cardiovascularly fit. You don't have to chose before or after. Do cardio on the days you don't lift that way one won't interfere with the other. I find that cardio actually helps lessen muslce soreness. Good luck, sounds like you're doing great!

[Deleted]

Mar 21, 2011 8:13:04 GMT -5 @pig said:

If you're looking to lose more weight cardio blows lifting out of the water for that and is the only way to get cardiovascularly fit. You don't have to chose before or after. Do cardio on the days you don't lift that way one won't interfere with the other. I find that cardio actually helps lessen muslce soreness. Good luck, sounds like you're doing great!

There is a difference between losing fat and weight. If all you care about is a number, than go ahead do cardio.
But if you want to be in shape, firm, fit and actually look smaller than you are, I say weight lifting is the way to go.

[pig]

"There is a difference between losing fat and weight. If all you care about is a number, than go ahead do cardio.
But if you want to be in shape, firm, fit and actually look smaller than you are, I say weight lifting is the way to go. "

Every single bodybuilder I know of does cardio when cutting. Most cyclists don't do much if any weightlifiting and have great bodies.

[Deleted]

Mar 21, 2011 9:44:37 GMT -5 @pig said:

"There is a difference between losing fat and weight. If all you care about is a number, than go ahead do cardio.
But if you want to be in shape, firm, fit and actually look smaller than you are, I say weight lifting is the way to go. "

Every single bodybuilder I know of does cardio when cutting. Most cyclists don't do much if any weightlifiting and have great bodies.

Are you really comparing cyclists to a typical runner? They are not even in the same league.

Find me a long distance runner or just plain runner for that matter that has the quads, calves of a cyclists and I will show you a liar.

Running for a long period of time burns muscle which you can ask any bodybuilder you meet and which is why bodybuilders would most likely do:
- HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)
- or limit the time they do cardio.

Even sprinters have a better built than marathon runners because running at a hight speed / short distance and short amount of time (HIIT) burns more fat and barely any muscle.

[pig]

"Are you really comparing cyclists to a typical runner? They are not even in the same league"

How you read this out of what I said is beyond me. I'm showing you that your statement is wrong here:

"There is a difference between losing fat and weight. If all you care about is a number, than go ahead do cardio.
But if you want to be in shape, firm, fit and actually look smaller than you are, I say weight lifting is the way to go. "

Here, I'll make it simple for you. There is no difference between losing weight and losing fat. You lose BOTH on a caloric deficit. There is no way around that FACT. Cardio burns a LOT more calories than lifting weights. Secondly, I brought up runners and cyclists for the simple fact that you said you need BOTH weights AND cardio to have a good body. That is FALSE.

[The J]

Mar 21, 2011 11:04:50 GMT -5 @pig said:

There is no difference between losing weight and losing fat. You lose BOTH on a caloric deficit.

Not true. There is a HUGE difference between losing weight and losing fat. Losing weight can entail losing fat, muscle, water or bone density. Losing fat entails losing fat. A caloric deficit can result in fat loss, or in muscle loss. In fact, studies have shown that at extreme caloric deficits, muscle loss ensues and fat GAIN can actually occur.

[pig]

"Not true. There is a HUGE difference between losing weight and losing fat. Losing weight can entail losing fat, muscle, water or bone density. Losing fat entails losing fat. A caloric deficit can result in fat loss, or in muscle loss. In fact, studies have shown that at extreme caloric deficits, muscle loss ensues and fat GAIN can actually occur. "

Absolutely FALSE. Please, if your going to say something like this why don't you post some sort of reference. Your body taps it's protein reserves FIRST. You can NOT lose fat without losing muscle. It's a simple basic fact. Go look it up.

[Formerly SK]

Hmmm...now I'm getting a bit confused. I'm trying to get my body fat % from 20 to 18. I'm also trying to build muscle strength to help my bad knees and posture (plus I'm really liking how it feels to be strong). I'm eating primarily meat/fruit/veggies and am focusing on getting my protein intake up. I know I need extra calories (protein) to build muscle, but I was thinking if the calories were "healthy" then I could still lose body fat. Is that wrong?

[Formerly SK]

"If you can barely walk to your car after lifting, I would say you aren't doing it properly or overdoing it."

I do full body lifting and try to get to maximum fatigue by the end of the third set. Is that overdoing it? While I am still quite fatigued when I leave the gym, I'm mostly recovered within a few hours.

[pig]

Going from 20 to 18 should be easy for you. First thing you should do is calculate your caloric BMR for maintenance. Write down everything you eat for a week or two. Break down what you've eaten into macronutrients ie Carbs/Protein/Fats. See how many calories your getting from each. Ideally you'll want to be at 40/40/20 percent.

So once you know how many calories it takes to maintain your weight it's easy to adjust from there. Say you require 2300 calories to maintain your weight. Make a diet plan that is less than 2300 but no less than 2000.

[Formerly SK]

Thanks Snerdley for your points. I tend to over analyze everything and lifting is no exception especially since I'm new to it. I'm pretty comfy just keeping with my routine, but then I hear people saying that if you don't increase your weights (by even small increments) after every session or two that you body doesn't get challenged and then there is pretty much no point to doing it. Course, I read this in a body-building book so the author's goals may be loftier from mine.

I do think my squat form has gotten off a bit so I'm going to reduce my weights (as soon as this darn cold goes away and I can workout again) and refocus on form. To your point, I think maybe I've been pushing the increases too much. I turn 38 next week - I probably need to be more kind to the ol' body.