Düngéôn of DOOM (There is treachery afoot!)

[domeasingold]

That's DOMED!

[bumpybumpington]

Looks like commodity trading action has taken over.
Next up...loud popping sound.

[bumpybumpington]

Pop!



Right on cue MFers (Market Followers).




Still some September left and I am waiting for a significant (-20% or more) correction to Au & Ag.

This will be my buy signal...for equities.

Best of luck to everyone. ;D

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

What is your thoughts I have looked through it and tried to do some research. I keep coming back to this point...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_Revenue_Service

The agency is a bureau of the Department of the Treasury, and is under the immediate direction of the Commissioner of Internal Revenue. The IRS is responsible for collecting taxes and the interpretation and enforcement of the Internal Revenue Code.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I still don't see what your point is? The Federal Reserve returns all profits back to the UST. This is what I found..

www.federalreserveeducation.org/faq/topics/fed_basics.cfm

Does the Federal Reserve pay taxes?
After paying expenses, the Fed turns our profits over to the Treasury Department each year. We pay no income taxes. However, we pay real estate taxes, personnel related taxes such as unemployment insurance, workers compensation tax and social security withholding tax, etc.

So aside from the FED's profits all going back to the UST the FED pays tax on all buildings, ect,ect,ect...

What is your point? This has to do with the IRS.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Ok, so you have the same questions I do about it.. LOL

The way I understand it, the money collected from taxes is where the Federal Government gets its money. When there isn't enough, bonds are issued to fill the gap. From that same link I posted above...

Does the Federal Reserve operate using tax dollars?
The Federal Reserve's income is derived primarily from the interest on U.S. government securities that it has acquired through open market operations. Other sources of income are the interest on foreign currency investments held by the System; fees received for services provided to depository institutions, such as check clearing, funds transfers and automated clearinghouse operations; and interest on loans to depository institutions (the rate on which is the so-called discount rate). After paying its expenses, the Federal Reserve turns the rest of its earnings over to the U.S. Treasury.

So there is no actual income in the Federal Reserve, there is a 0 balance every year. But all the Fed buildings are taxed like ours for owning property, all the employees are taxed, ect, ect,..

[bumpybumpington]

Plunge in progress?

[bumpybumpington]

The frequency of posts that end with '...will be going higher' seems to be...going higher.
Perhaps this will fall off as P metals settle into a thoroughly corrected range.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Where did bumpy go??? That char is very telling!! WOW! Nice one!

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Sept 29, 2011 8:38:14 GMT -5 @wxyz said:

THERE IS NO "CORPORATION OF USA" THERE IS NO "CORPORATION OF AMERICA". The USA is not a "corporation" Have you ever seen the articles of incorporation or the bylaws or any other corporate paperwork for the USA or America. Did you ever read or study about the "corporation of USA" in school. (history, government classes?)

That document is a blatent phony, total BS, not even remotely real looking in the language. COME ON PEOPLE, LETS GET REAL HERE. Even for an internet conspiracy this one is transparently idiotic and phony.

I CAN NOT BELIEVE WE HAVE SUNK SO LOW AS A COUNTRY AND SOCIETY THAT SOME (as in only a few, as in not many) PEOPLE BELIEVE SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

I hear that, that's why I kept saying Federal Government. I just don't know your guys tax forms. So just the usual Internet BS.

The silver lining for me. I found out that the Federal reserve pays tax on all the buildings that they own. So in that sense the IRS(UST) is above the FED, and the FED returns profits the the UST. The UST is "owed" by the Federal Government and the Federal Government works for the people. Which 110% proves the Federal Reserve conspiracy WRONG!!! At least they are very consistent eh wxyz?

[Virgil Showlion]

Ugly ugly ugly in Europe today.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, look at the forex charts on the apps bar. German CDS spreads hitting fresh records and then of course this.

However, courtesy of "the economic collapse blog" (what a delightfully neutral name), we have today the 12 prophets of doom that I felt would be apropos for our own hall of doom.

A teaser:

#1 George Soros: "Financial markets are driving the world towards another Great Depression with incalculable political consequences. The authorities, particularly in Europe, have lost control of the situation."

#2 PIMCO CEO Mohammed El-Erian: "These are all signs of an institutional run on French banks. If it persists, the banks would have no choice but to delever their balance sheets in a very drastic and disorderly fashion. Retail depositors would get edgy and be tempted to follow trading and institutional clients through the exit doors. Europe would thus be thrown into a full-blown banking crisis that aggravates the sovereign debt trap, renders certain another economic recession, and significantly worsens the outlook for the global economy."

#3 Attila Szalay-Berzeviczy, global head of securities services at UniCredit SpA (Italy's largest bank): "The only remaining question is how many days the hopeless rearguard action of European governments and the European Central Bank can keep up Greece’s spirits."

#4 Stefan Homburg, the head of Germany's Institute for Public Finance: "The euro is nearing its ugly end. A collapse of monetary union now appears unavoidable."

#5 EU Parliament Member Nigel Farage: "I think the worst in the financial system is yet to come, a possible cataclysm and if that happens the gold price could go (higher) to a number that we simply cannot, at this moment, even imagine."

Start your week with a healthy dose of doom.

[Virgil Showlion]

Which 110% proves the Federal Reserve conspiracy WRONG!

Give me a break, Ham.

An institution has the power to send markets reeling 1,000 points higher or 1,000 points lower based on how many times Mr. Bernanke uses the word "easing" in a press statement, and you're arguing that the Fed is an agent of the US people because they remit their on-the-books profits to the UST? This "proves the conspiracy wrong"?

How about: "Hey Jean, it's Ben. We're going to make xyz announcement in abc months. Make sure "the boys" are all positioned accordingly. We'll take 20% of your profits, as usual."

...and even this is ridiculously unsophisticated. The Fed wields incredible power to move markets and affect prices. Any trader will tell you that even the slightest insider foreknowledge of price movement yields an opportunity to profit.

Let it fail and get it over with NOW.

I'm currently of the same mind. But we might not like what comes out the other side.

[domeasingold]

>:(Give me a break Virg. You know it's the media who "twists" those words into the hype that wall street buys into.
CGI is right "G'DAM SCUMBAGS!"

[Virgil Showlion]

I don't know what Wall Street has to do with this. Right now they're getting their arses handed to them. Many (including me) expected Dow 11,000 to hold.

[tyfighter3]

I think it's called Class Warfare. It could have been called something else years ago but the powers to be want you to hate someone else other than them. That 20 to 25 year olds that are protesting WallStreet should be outside Mr Doods and Franks house protesting them since they put them where they are at now. JMO

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Yep, there are so many young people that need education on this.. If they would look around they would find the real problem...

Moody’s, Fitch, S&P Must Face New Mexico Securities Lawsuit, Judge Rules
www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-03/moody-s-fitch-s-p-must-face-new-mexico-securities-lawsuit-judge-rules.html

Oct 3, 2011 16:00:42 GMT -5 domeasingold said:

>:(Give me a break Virg. You know it's the media who "twists" those words into the hype that wall street buys into.
CGI is right "G'DAM SCUMBAGS!"

BINGO!!! I knew there was a reason I like you dome! ;D

Virg, the reason that wall street is taking a kicking is because the FED can't do anything!! This is just sinking for the people wrapped in the FED conspiracy, and if you could come back with something besides; "on the book profits" then I might take your point and consider it. CEO's move the market, Warren Buffet has moved the market, earthquakes move the market, CPUs move the market! Your hanging onto a thin thread with, Ben moves markets, is what I'm trying to get at.

[Virgil Showlion]

Virg, the reason that wall street is taking a kicking is because the FED can't do anything!

Poor babies. If only we could pump a few hundred billion more into stocks trading at 120 forward P/E. The whole crisis would be over and we could ride our unicorns over to the Acropolis to celebrate.

Your hanging onto a thin thread with, Ben moves markets, is what I'm trying to get at.

I've never purposed to "prove" a conspiracy involving the Fed. I want people to keep an open mind, certainly, and I've butted heads with Frank Q a few times in the "Market Conspiracy" thread. I'm under no delusion that a few blog articles will change anybody's mind on the subject. When I do get involved is when posters categorically deny that a conspiracy is possible.

Such as was the case with your hyperbolic comments in #54. To wit:

Which 110% proves the Federal Reserve conspiracy WRONG!!!

Do I believe that the FOMC's and Fed boards unilateral (and unequaled) power to move markets "proves" there's a conspiracy raging in the background? Taken by itself, no. However, the issue at hand was/is whether the Fed remitting certain token profits to the UST "110% proving" the conspiracy wrong. Consider it a sign of respect that I read your statement and immediately thought, "I've never seen Ham write anything so unabashedly narrow-minded."

It's one statement out of thousands and hardly worth a raging debate over. Perhaps I wanted to remind you that all of our comments on these boards define us, including those of the hyperbolic "high five, bro" variety.

[Virgil Showlion]

I won't deny that would put some kick back in the economy, but isn't the US government looking at a revenue problem even with taxes at current levels?

[Deleted]

Revenue problem.....no

Spending problem...yes

I realize some custs are going to be painful....but we cant continue with the bloated costs and government that we currently have

And we cant cut everything tomorrow....but it would be nice if we could

[Virgil Showlion]

Considering a ~$1.5 trillion (give or take) deficit this year. Eliminate an additional $500 B in tax revenues, you're looking at a $2.0 trillion per year spending gap to close.

I agree that it has to be closed, but $2.0 trillion is $12,000.00 per American taxpayer. You're going to feel it if the government stops spending it on you.

[Virgil Showlion]

Ah, the vaunted Laffer curve. I've read so many debunkings and un-debunkings and re-debunkings that it's hard to find an objective article on the subject.

What I will disagree with you on—vehemently—is that revenues "skyrocket" with tax cuts. In any high tax versus low tax debate, proponents of low-tax environments are struggling to hold the ground that tax cuts slightly more than pay for themselves. Not push the notion that revenues "skyrocket".

Corporate and personal income tax rates in the US aren't exactly confiscatory by world standards. I could (with a grain of salt) accept the notion of tax cuts eking out modest increases in revenue, but "skyrocketing"?

How about the following challenge. Both of us will have until Friday to procure two articles each that support our positions. I'll play devil's advocate and take the position that the Laffer curve is a myth (or equivalently, that the Laffer curve isn't a myth, but that we're on the rising end of the curve such that higher taxes equates to greater revenue). You find some credible sources willing to endorse the statement that revenues skyrocket.

Accept the challenge?

[Deleted]

Interesting arguments, but more than the President's ideas and actions, I think it is the dunderheads we put in the Senate & House that are sinking us. They have no grasp of reality or any class but their own. They seem to write bills they don't even understand themselves. I am disappointed in the cast of hundreds that are sinking this entire country.

We need to cut the government back to the core, necessary functions - local, state & federal; and then privatize everything else. They have their hands into far too much stuff and all the boondoggles & fat are sickening.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

K4WXYZ!

Virg, go back and read the thread my friend, then clean that egg off your face. ;D It's not just the profits to the UST, it's also that the FED pays tax on all buildings to the UST.. All employees pay tax to the UST, and if the President says something stupid like "Everyone should own a home" Then the FED chief has to say.. Ok, that's what the dunderhead wants that's what he will get. Kinda like Ben B. and Trichet saying AGAIN today that the govt need to get it's act in order. But hey that's just the way I see it.

I'm glad that my excitment shows through in my typing though, thanks for that!

I agree Rock It, to serve and protect, that's it!

[Virgil Showlion]

NO I DONT ACCEPT. I dont want to waste my time.

Fair enough.

All the same, I'll present my side of the argument to interested readers on or before Friday. People's perceptions are coloured and truth is poisonous.

and if the President says something stupid like "Everyone should own a home" Then the FED chief has to say.. Ok, that's what the dunderhead wants that's what he will get

If your argument is that every Fed Chair from Volker to Greenspan to Bernanke had no decision-making power beyond realizing the whims of their respective Presidents, gooooood night.

[rovo]

The problem with economic theories is there is no controlled environment in which to try the theories and see what happens. The economy is much too complex to simply state the "Laffer" curve is fact or fiction. Clinton raises taxes and the economy boomed. Of course the PC revolution occurred at the same time and was probably the cause of the boom in spite of the rising taxes.

Since the economy is so complicated, the best thing the government can do is to reduce its' impact through lower taxes and lower spending. Define the legitimate functions of the government, fund those functions, and then get the hell out of the way.

[Deleted]

Oct 5, 2011 13:14:08 GMT -5 rovo said:

The problem with economic theories is there is no controlled environment in which to try the theories and see what happens. The economy is much too complex to simply state the "Laffer" curve is fact or fiction. Clinton raises taxes and the economy boomed. Of course the PC revolution occurred at the same time and was probably the cause of the boom in spite of the rising taxes.

Since the economy is so complicated, the best thing the government can do is to reduce its' impact through lower taxes and lower spending. Define the legitimate functions of the government, fund those functions, and then get the hell out of the way.

Government is in the way.....

[Virgil Showlion]

The economy is much too complex to simply state the "Laffer" curve is fact or fiction. Clinton raises taxes and the economy boomed. Of course the PC revolution occurred at the same time and was probably the cause of the boom in spite of the rising taxes.

That's very true. But we can soundly demonstrate what didn't happen (e.g. federal revenues skyrocketing during the Reagan administration and/or after the Bush tax cuts).

Most of the would-be Laffer curve debunkers fall back to multinational data where they plot federal revenue per capita versus tax rate and demonstrate a positive correlation. It's a worthwhile data point to look at, if not terribly compelling.

As I've said before, the US government is so monolithic that what works in other (properly-sized ) nations would never work in the US. I am a strong supporter of public healthcare in Canada, for example, but implemented on a 10x scale for the US (and with your current tax rates) it would be an utter disaster.

[usaone]

Reagan poured Billions into the military. That along with tax cuts, deficit spending and political compromise with Tip Oneil spurred the recovery in 1982 and 1983.

Tech a Housing mini-boom and compromise between Clinton/Newt spurred us in the mid 1990's.

Mid 2000's was the housing BOOM ONLY in my opinion.

Tax rates, other than some business taxes are so low now, that anything lower will have little effect. We have bills to pay.

Capacity utilitation at 78% and a housing surplus along with NO compromise from Obama/Boehner leave us bouncing along the bottom.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

If your argument is that every Fed Chair from Volker to Greenspan to Bernanke had no decision-making power beyond realizing the whims of their respective Presidents, gooooood night.

I never said that at all, asdie from the three of four other points Virg, there is this!!

www.federalreserveeducation.org/faq/topics/fed_basics.cfm

However, the Federal Reserve is subject to oversight by Congress, which periodically reviews its activities and can alter its responsibilities by statute. Also, the Federal Reserve must work within the framework of the overall objectives of economic and financial policy established by the government. Therefore, the Federal Reserve can be more accurately described as "independent within the government."

Like I said, if the dunderhead says something like, "everyone should own a home." The FED Chief has to make it happen, using the power he has been given by the UST, aka Federal Government of the United States of America.

[Deleted]

My recent domestic Au / Ag mining stock purchase should do well even if the shiny stuff loses market value,
as long as the markup on the mined metal remains high.

It is amazing, the stuff is dirt cheap until somebody claims the rights to it and starts digging.
All of the mania is just so much more reason to dig up the sparse deposits (1.2 oz. / ton).


The Alchemy of it all is really all about marketing after all.

The humble earth transmuted to Gold then exchanged for power.

You know... US Dollars.