� German Leader talk about Greece leaving EURO

[bimetalaupt]

PUT SIMPLY THE GERMAN OR FINNISH DO NOT WANT THE GREEK DEBT AND GREECE IS DOING LITTLE TO HELP!! NOT KEEPING THE BUDGET!!


Sorry: HEADLINE should read "German Leaders talk about Greece Leaving the EURO" I just can not get the editor to write what I write!!
Bi Metal Au Pt
BERLIN (Reuters) - Anger at Greece's failure to meet fiscal targets that are a condition for its international bailout is nearing breaking point in Berlin and other European capitals, with senior politicians now talking openly about the possibility of Athens exiting the euro zone.

Horst Seehofer, the head of the Bavarian Christian Social Union (CSU), was the first prominent figure in Germany to suggest publicly that Greece might eventually be forced to leave the 17-nation single currency bloc in an interview in the Bild newspaper on Wednesday.

But he was expressing what many lawmakers and ministers in the German capital have been whispering behind closed doors for weeks, according to well-informed sources.

German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble has ramped up his rhetoric since "troika" inspectors from the European Union, International Monetary Fund and European Central Bank suspended talks on payment of a new aid

finance.yahoo.com/news/Greek-backsliding-sparks-euro-rb-2110474366.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=1&asset=&ccode=

[smackdown]

And they call the rock band-- Led Zeppelin. Sounds like the current circumstance is. Wouldn't every single person in the world love the chance to just tell it's debt obligation and responsibility to-- go away? Sounds like Germany needs new management.

[The Virginian]

Let me guess

How about the USA!

[frankq]

The best thing the EU can do is to cut Greece loose. The dumbest thing they did was to tie themselves together in the first place.

[wyouser]

Sept 8, 2011 11:59:35 GMT -5 frankq said:

The best thing the EU can do is to cut Greece loose. The dumbest thing they did was to tie themselves together in the first place.

Interesting when they put the Euro zone together that they didnt look at their own European history. Especially at the unanimous agreement requirements on dealing with crisis. Poland had a system that required 100% unanimous agreement from their house of nobles to act on anything. The country had large minorities of Germans, Ukranians and White Russians, and was situated between Russia and Prussia. Unable to react, Poland disappeared in 3 partitions between Russia and Prussia by the end of the 18th century..Only one member of the parliamentary body could veto any action by the govt.

[bimetalaupt]

Sept 8, 2011 9:37:45 GMT -5 @franktheimpaler said:

We have gone around and around ...but we said this will never fly...and it won't...so Bruce what happens to confidence to get the EUC's house in order?...and what will be the one safe place...now that the swiss have insulated their currency?

FRANK,
Yes, the 9% drop in the swissie in five minutes made a lot of traders a lot poorer.. They know the answer to gold and got killed. Upset does not begin to explain some of the words I heard about the SNB!! Most will not pass the "Moon court of PG13 Test" .

True Finns are in their most defensive state today...MORE COLOURFUL METAPHORS AS DELTA WOULD SAY....

SAFE PLACE: THE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$...AND t-BONDS!!!
AAA RATED BY ME!! GO SUCK A TREE.. S&P....PLEASE TO NOT CUT THE TREE DOWN AND PRINT YOUR GARBAGE ON THE PAPER.. TREES ARE GREEN AND MAKE O2. YOU ONLY MAKE METHANE!!!!

JUST A TH0UGHT AND K4EVERYONE EXCEPT S&P.
Bi Metal Au Pt
we need more world class education.. Starting with World Class High School..Thank-you to the Gates this is now a world class school. Erasmus Hall was the first public High School in America... Brooklyn...

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[bimetalaupt]

Sept 8, 2011 15:03:35 GMT -5 wyouser said:

Sept 8, 2011 11:59:35 GMT -5 frankq said:

The best thing the EU can do is to cut Greece loose. The dumbest thing they did was to tie themselves together in the first place.

Interesting when they put the Euro zone together that they didnt look at their own European history. Especially at the unanimous agreement requirements on dealing with crisis. Poland had a system that required 100% unanimous agreement from their house of nobles to act on anything. The country had large minorities of Germans, Ukranians and White Russians, and was situated between Russia and Prussia. Unable to react, Poland disappeared in 3 partitions between Russia and Prussia by the end of the 18th century..Only one member of the parliamentary body could veto any action by the govt.

Wyouser,
What I heard from the German side of the family back in say 1992 was now we will not have to pay the "Money Changers" every time we cross the national lines..We will be just like the United States..YES THE USA IN 1802!!! ALSO THE BANK OF THE UNITED STATES DID NOT GET RE-CHARTED BY ONE VOTE IN THE HOUSE!!!


The ECB is back to tight money .. like the old gold standard because it has one mandate.. inflation control.. We should see that change in the November meeting with a real rate cut and huge infusion of the EURO with bond purchase.. Too Little and Too late...Germany vs Italy.. And it was Italy that won...
JUST A THOUGHT,
Bi Metal Au Pt

Attachments:

[wyouser]

economist A. Gary Schilling has some comments on this too. www.moneymews.com/streettalk/recession-schilling-eurozone/2011/09/09/id410355?s=d&promo-code=d013-1 "the eurozone structure reminds me of the Articles of Confederation, which very loosly goverened the original 13 U.S. Colonies. Without central control, getting things done was very difficult. Finally in 1789, the U.S. Constitution was ratified with a meaningful central government. Is Europe headed for a similar destiny?" Schilling asks. "Perhaps, but the colonies had all belonged to England, had a common language and customs, and felt pressure from ongoing threats from Europe. The Eurozone will have to find its moment of truth in an internal debt threat that won't go away." Europe has many investors worried, including legendary hedge fund manager George Soros. "This crisis has the potential to be a lot worswe than Lehman Brothers,"says Soros, according to the New York Times.

[maui1]

the euro sucks, but it's real value to us, is that we can use them to foresee our future.

don't get the false sense of security that just because we can print money, we are any different from the euro zone. all that buys us is more time, but our policy makers and our system is just as inept as that of the euro zone..........so don't be so willing to point the finger.

[usaone]

We are totally different Maui.

Bruce and Frank have been patiently trying to explain this to you for months now.

[maui1]

Bruce and Frank have been patiently trying to explain this to you for months now.

guess i am just plain stupid........sorry

[inhouston]

Greece is spending $1.54 - for every $1.00 in income.

Jun 23, 2011 ... GDP in the first quarter of 2011 is 5.5% lower than in the same .... on holders of Greek government debt (which stands at 154% of GDP)


No matter how many bailouts - or slightly debt trimming austerity packages - they are too far gone to save.

JMHO

[jarhead1976]

To much Ouzo clouds your thinking and ability to WORK.

[bimetalaupt]

Sept 9, 2011 14:17:54 GMT -5 @maui1 said:

Bruce and Frank have been patiently trying to explain this to you for months now.

guess I am just a genius........now this is the correct word you need

maui1,
you genius you.. now let it show.. I know you are..Most of the information about the EU I have is from London or Luxembourg . Most of the Landesbanks in Germany are Insolvent with Sovereign debt marked to market . German banks on average have only 2% Tier1 capital vs 9% for the USA. Please see chart on Shareholder equity for more detail.

Just a thought,
Bi Metal Au Pt

[wyouser]

Sept 9, 2011 15:16:20 GMT -5 @jarhead1976 said:

To much Ouzo clouds your thinking and ability to WORK.

No kidding...I'd forgotten about that stuff...turns you invisible after a bit and as I recall some friends saying...makes you take back stuff you did'nt steal

[inhouston]

Most of the Landesbanks in Germany are Insolvent with Sovereign debt marked to market . German banks on average have only 2% Tier1 capital vs 9% for the USA

Bruce - that is the same kind of information Bill (scared shirtless)E-mailed me a few days ago.

Fluffy is wary of all - except farmer originated Bundt Bonds

I have been somewhat remiss in European bank trends - thanks for keeping us informed.

[usaone]

Sept 9, 2011 15:29:41 GMT -5 bimetalaupt said:

Sept 9, 2011 14:17:54 GMT -5 @maui1 said:

Bruce and Frank have been patiently trying to explain this to you for months now.

guess I am just a genius........now this is the correct word you need

maui1,
you genius you.. now let it show.. I know you are..Most of the information about the EU I have is from London or Luxembourg . Most of the Landesbanks in Germany are Insolvent with Sovereign debt marked to market . German banks on average have only 2% Tier1 capital vs 9% for the USA. Please see chart on Shareholder equity for more detail.

Just a thought,
Bi Metal Au Pt

Great info as always Bruce!

[bimetalaupt]

Sept 9, 2011 15:51:09 GMT -5 @inhouston said:

Most of the Landesbanks in Germany are Insolvent with Sovereign debt marked to market . German banks on average have only 2% Tier1 capital vs 9% for the USA

Bruce - that is the same kind of information Bill (scared shirtless)E-mailed me a few days ago.

Fluffy is wary of all - except farmer originated Bundt Bonds

I have been somewhat remiss in European bank trends - thanks for keeping us informed.

Houston,
I to take both Buttons and Louie to the Analysis yesterday.. Louie let her have the chair..But did get his two barks in to the dissertation on the Swisssie 9% drop in five minutes!! So much for the Swiss Bonds..

Talking about Bill.. Try to get him to post again.. I have.. Could you CC me the letter to
[e-mail] .

I have one more offer to sell out the lubrication development products from B.Braunii by a German firm!! It is Renewable and they get one fantastic Tax write-off for the ponds and Evaoputrons ( copyrighted.. LendrumLabs 2009).. I keep the rights to the B.Braunii BCL 12.

Things are getting exciting..

Just a thought,
Bruce
Now for that Hamburg Steinway Model D.. I have always wanted...

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Sept 9, 2011 17:12:55 GMT -5 bimetalaupt said:

Sept 9, 2011 15:51:09 GMT -5 @inhouston said:

Bruce - that is the same kind of information Bill (scared shirtless)E-mailed me a few days ago.

Fluffy is wary of all - except farmer originated Bundt Bonds

I have been somewhat remiss in European bank trends - thanks for keeping us informed.

Houston,
I to take both Buttons and Louie to the Analysis yesterday.. Louie let her have the chair..But did get his two barks in to the dissertation on the Swisssie 9% drop in five minutes!! So much for the Swiss Bonds..

Talking about Bill.. Try to get him to post again.. I have.. Could you CC me the letter to
[e-mail] .

I have one more offer to sell out the lubrication development products from B.Braunii by a German firm!! It is Renewable and they get one fantastic Tax write-off for the ponds and Evaoputrons ( copyrighted.. LendrumLabs 2009).. I keep the rights to the B.Braunii BCL 12.

Things are getting exciting..

Just a thought,
Bruce
Now for that Hamburg Steinway Model D.. I have always wanted...

Nice now we are talking all natural OIL!! How about all that extra water every that is wasted... It's there for the talking...

town.outlook.sk.ca/skytrail/skytrail-4.html

[bimetalaupt]

Getting wild in Greece.. Now the Unions are going to stop tax collections to save the nation form Chapter 11!!!!

Greece is gearing up for crunch talks with European creditors this week as it struggles to get its finances under control amid persisting rumours that the country is on the brink of bankruptcy. ;D

“For months Greece has been in a vicious circle,” says Dimitris Katsikas from the Hellenic Foundation for European and Foreign Policy.

“Inspectors from the European Union and International Monetary Fund (IMF) come to Athens - they say that fiscal targets are not being met and leave - and the government implements more austerity measures - namely taxes, leaving the country in a deeper recession.” Greece is set to resume suspended talks with international creditors on Wednesday after they threatened last week to withhold a sixth bailout tranche of about 8 billion euros because of the country’s repeated fiscal slippages.

After German policymakers at the weekend suggested that an orderly default may be in the cards for Greece, the government made a sudden decision to impose a two-year property tax to raise 2 billion euros (2.8 billion dollars) and plug a 2011 budget gap identified by the EU and IMF.

The EU’s Commissioner for Monetary Affairs, Olli Rehn, welcomed the move saying it went “a long way” towards meeting the country’s targets.

But even as Greece pledged a fresh course of action, stocks continued to nose-dive in financial markets across Europe and Asia, leaving many to wonder whether the country’s efforts to cut its deficit were enough.

“For months the government was dragging its feet on implementing the necessary reforms and the EU and IMF know this,” said Mr. Katsikas, adding “the new measures [the property tax] may be enough to temporarily satisfy creditors but the government needs to immediately act on structural reforms to get out of the crisis.” Foreign auditors have pressed Greece to speed up privatizations and focus on structural reforms and spending cuts, by cutting down on the large number of civil servants.

Greece was granted a 110-billion-euro bailout loan in May 2010, linked to strict austerity conditions. It was also promised a second bailout worth 109 billion euros in July.

The ruling Socialist PASOK government, under the leadership of George Papandreou, has had to slash salaries and pensions as part of a wave of painful austerity measures to secure the international loans.

But Greece’s deputy finance minister said on Monday the government had only enough cash to operate until next month, highlighting the country’s urgent need for the next emergency loan.

“We are trying to guarantee that the state can continue to pay salaries without problems until October,” Deputy Finance Minister Filipos Sachinidis told television channel Mega, when asked about the government’s ability to pay civil servants’ wages and pensions.

At the end of August an independent Greek parliamentary committee of experts warned that Greece’s debt was veering out of control and the country was unlikely to meet its deficit targets for the year.

On Monday, Finance Ministry data released from Brussels showed Greece’s budget deficit to have widened by an annual 22 per cent in the year to August, to 18.1 billion euros.

Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos has said the economy will shrink by about 5.3 per cent this year and blamed the budget shortfall on a bigger than expected recession.

As politicians and international creditors discuss the country’s fate, public anger continues to erupt on the streets.

At the weekend, thousands of people, from taxi drivers to students, took part in violent demonstrations in the northern port city of Thessaloniki against the austerity measures and rising unemployment.

Greek workers at the country’s public power corporation have threatened to block the new property tax, which the government plans to collect through electricity bills to ensure that citizens will pay it quickly.

“This is unfair - we are already paying enough taxes and now the government is forcing us into a corner with no way out,” said Hara Dragosi, a secretary and mother of three.

"SORRY ABOUT THE SIGN ON THE PICTURE.. BUT IT IS ALL GREEK TO ME"

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[jarhead1976]

Interesting fact that the European Central Bank lost 20 billion dollars in Gold when it changed from the European Monetary Institute. Only leaving 7 billion in the EU banks. Where did the 20 billion end up? 3,400 tonnes ended up in the German Central Bank , enough to back its own currency no matter what happens in Europe. This leaves Germany protected from the euros fall. Currency backed by Gold . What a novel idea.

[bimetalaupt]

Sept 13, 2011 8:00:34 GMT -5 @jarhead1976 said:

Interesting fact that the European Central Bank lost 20 billion dollars in Gold when it changed from the European Monetary Institute. Only leaving 7 billion in the EU banks. Where did the 20 billion end up? 3,400 tonnes ended up in the German Central Bank , enough to back its own currency no matter what happens in Europe. This leaves Germany protected from the euros fall. Currency backed by Gold . What a novel idea.

Jar Head 1976,
They still are in the state of confusion.. from May
www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/06/eurogroup-juncker-meeting-idUSLDE74525120110506
Greece leaving euro zone not discussed- Eurogroup's Juncker
May 6 (Reuters) - Finance ministers from Germany, France, Italy and Spain did not discuss Greece leaving the euro zone or the possibility of a Greek debt restructuring during a meeting in Luxembourg on Friday, Eurogroup Chairman Jean-Claude Juncker said.
.....
German magazine Der Spiegel reported earlier that the meeting was to discuss the possibility, raised by Greece, of leaving the 17 member euro zone and readopting its own currency.

"We have not been discussing the exit of Greece from the euro area, this is a stupid idea, it is in no way, it is an avenue we would never take," Juncker said.

"We don't want to have the euro area exploding without reason. We were excluding the restructing option which is discussed heavily in certain quarters of the financial markets...."

He said talk of Greece needing a further adjustment programme would be discussed in detail at the next Eurogroup meeting in Brussels on May 16.

ANY WAY YOU SAY IT .. AXEL WEBER WAS NO FOOL.. HE TOOK THE GOLD !! GENIUS !!! I POSTED A BIT EARLY THE EURO = 1.00 USD.. TOO SOON BUT
BI METAL AU PT

K4U...

[maui1]

bruce- i understand the difference between the euro zone and the usa. my question is......do we have to get into the greek position, in order to get our house in order?

plus our usa banks have an advantage in capital reserves, and that advantage is the fed and what it can do 'behind closed doors'.

and the common denominator between all these countries is their fiat monetary systems, which allows for this debt escalation.

when are people going to see this as the main issue and if not corrected, anything done today, is just pushing the problem into the future?

gov'ts inflate to grow............this is fact, and indisputable. we gave our country the tools to inflate, and now must feel the pain to survive, and if we are unwilling, we will perish, as all have perished before us.


and btw- what is up with vl- being banded? i don't see anything other than rovo getting mad at him for spouting some of the same shit that i spout, which in my opinion, is on point and real.

is rovo the opinion police now?

[bimetalaupt]

Sept 13, 2011 8:37:52 GMT -5 @maui1 said:

bruce- i understand the difference between the euro zone and the usa. my question is......do we have to get into the greek position, in order to get our house in order?

plus our usa banks have an advantage in capital reserves, and that advantage is the fed and what it can do 'behind closed doors'.

and the common denominator between all these countries is their fiat monetary systems, which allows for this debt escalation.

when are people going to see this as the main issue and if not corrected, anything done today, is just pushing the problem into the future?

gov'ts inflate to grow............this is fact, and indisputable. we gave our country the tools to inflate, and now must feel the pain to survive, and if we are unwilling, we will perish, as all have perished before us.

maui1,
You ask the very thought questions!!! Remember most of the European actors in this Greek Tragedy are Politicisations and not bankers.. Merkel is going down and will do anything to keep the ship for sinking. They are buying gold and US T-Bonds like there is no hope for the banking system. The Lux group now have a central Tendency price of $2,500/troy oz..

The facts I keep hearing are all about the Vienna bank crashed 1933 and NY Fed President Benjamin Strong reducing the money supply by 30% from 1913 to 1928 to maintain prices stability.. Sounds like what the ECB did to raise the value of the EURO from 0.97 usd TO OVER $1.50 IN 2007.. Real dumb!!! iN THE GOLDSTANDARD NO LESS.. BUT m0 IS ONLY 10% OF MONEY.. AS FLOW5 REPORTS MOST IS FROM BANK CREATION VIA LOANS FROM DEPOSIT SYSTEMS...

YOU ARE VERY CORRECT: The USA has four times the capital Tier1 ration as Germany. James Dimon from JP Morgan tells Ben B. We need out of BISIII because this giver the European banks one hell of an advantage on capital cost!!.. I would not put a EURO in any of them and that goes for the Swissie too.

Great Question.. I will write more after my left hand stops hurting.. We are tied at the hip to the European economy so Ben B. Must act to save the banks!!!JMO...

JUST A THOUGHT,
Bruce

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[jarhead1976]

Sept 13, 2011 8:00:34 GMT -5 @jarhead1976 said:

Interesting fact that the European Central Bank lost 20 billion dollars in Gold when it changed from the European Monetary Institute. Only leaving 7 billion in the EU banks. Where did the 20 billion end up? 3,400 tonnes ended up in the German Central Bank , enough to back its own currency no matter what happens in Europe. This leaves Germany protected from the euros fall. Currency backed by Gold . What a novel idea.

At today's prices that comes in at @ 125,800,000,000 not a bad days work for making the euro well the euro and dumping the up and coming German Mark. Back in the day most people would go to jail for robbing banks. Now they just get a bonus.

[bimetalaupt]

Sept 13, 2011 19:55:02 GMT -5 @jarhead1976 said:

Sept 13, 2011 8:00:34 GMT -5 @jarhead1976 said:

Interesting fact that the European Central Bank lost 20 billion dollars in Gold when it changed from the European Monetary Institute. Only leaving 7 billion in the EU banks. Where did the 20 billion end up? 3,400 tonnes ended up in the German Central Bank , enough to back its own currency no matter what happens in Europe. This leaves Germany protected from the euros fall. Currency backed by Gold . What a novel idea.

At today's prices that comes in at @ 125,800,000,000 not a bad days work for making the euro well the euro and dumping the up and coming German Mark. Back in the day most people would go to jail for robbing banks. Now they just get a bonus.

Jar head 1976, K4U
Now the German economist wants Germany to leave the ECB and the EURO with all that Gold.. He Probably want the Texas Merlot too. How is this for a Monte Carlo Simulation!!
THIS IS THE SAME REASON VERY ABLE AXEL WEBER QUIT THE BUNDESBANK BY CHOOSING PRINCIPLE OVER COMMON WISDOM OF EXPEDIENCY.
Bruce

online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904353504576566960800871004.html
The European debt crisis spreads and worsens. The G-7 met last weekend and did nothing useful. The European Central Bank's chief economist, who was the German representative on the ECB, resigned last week to protest the bank's purchases of Italian and Spanish debt. My congratulations to him for reaffirming principles that the ECB was organized to support. The president of Germany's Bundesbank, the very able Axel Weber, resigned last spring because he did not support the policy of buying long-term debt of overindebted countries. He too chose principle over expediency. The long-term debt purchases continue.

The Europeans keep throwing money at problems and insisting on short-term palliatives. They are too willing to spare the bankers for past mistakes by trying to shift the cost of bad debt to unwilling taxpayers. Many propose a "European bond" to hide the fact that they want to shift the excessive debt contracted by the spenders to the more fiscally prudent. The current ECB acts on the belief that all problems can be solved by bailouts.

The ECB agreement to develop a common currency began as an agreement that France would accept Bundesbank rules in exchange for a seat at the table. Other countries agreed to the rules for maintaining price stability when they joined. But the agreement has been violated so often in the current crisis that it is dead, replaced by bailouts and fiscal actions, including purchases of long-term debt by the ECB.

[maui1]

The European debt crisis has generated as much as 300 billion euros ($410 billion) in credit risk for European banks, the International Monetary Fund said, calling for capital injections to reassure investors and support lending.

where does the euro zone get this kind of money? got that right! uncle ben and his un-audited printing presses.