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Post by privateinvestor on Jan 9, 2011 10:30:36 GMT -5
Congressional Reform Act of 2010
1. Term Limits.
12 years only, one of the possible options below..
A. Two Six-year Senate terms
B. Six Two-year House terms
C. One Six-year Senate term and three Two-Year House terms
2. No Tenure / No Pension.
A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they are out of office.
3. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security.
All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people.
4. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.
5. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.
6. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.
7. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.
8. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/11.
The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congressmen made all these contracts for themselves.
Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, serve your term(s), then go home and back to work.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 9, 2011 11:27:16 GMT -5
Never quite sure why people wish to limit the right of the American people to elect the person that they wish to have represent them. I think it is simply that they don't like who others continue to choose to represent them.
Also with this proposal, consider who would be able to serve in such an environment. Of course, the independently wealth would have no problem taking a few years out of their privledged existence to serve. Retired people could. I would guess that any special interest group (left/right/middle) would be more than happy to give an employee a "leave of absence" to serve. (Actually it would just be a change in job assignment for a few years.)
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Post by traelin0 on Jan 9, 2011 12:22:36 GMT -5
Men were not meant to be trusted for life. Term limits wasn't an issue 150 years ago because it used to be a chore to serve in Congress. Now, "serving" is used purely for personal enrichment.
12 years is too much time. Limit it to 6. We also need term limits on judges because they are the most out of control branch of govt.
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Jan 9, 2011 12:25:32 GMT -5
As one wag said, Two terms, one in office and one in jail.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jan 9, 2011 12:42:13 GMT -5
While temping at times..I don't believe we should have term limits...people want to shoot them selves in the foot..isn't it their right....somewhere in that great document..Constitution..some thing along the lines of "And we the founding Fathers of this grand New republic also feel if the people wish to shoot themselves in their own foot, they have the unalienable right to so do so, thus as far as limiting the term of office to...." something like that?mmmm  |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 9, 2011 12:53:33 GMT -5
dezi,
Freedom is a very tricky concept for some people.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2011 13:21:42 GMT -5
I'm all for post #1.
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Post by traelin0 on Jan 9, 2011 13:42:35 GMT -5
dezi,
Freedom is a very tricky concept for some people. I agree. Let's repeal the 17th and return to a Republic. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 9, 2011 14:07:17 GMT -5
dezi,
Freedom is a very tricky concept for some people. I agree. Let's repeal the 17th and return to a Republic. Would you also support taking away from the states the right to select the person they wish to have represent them or would you just limit the people from doing so? |
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Post by traelin0 on Jan 9, 2011 14:14:21 GMT -5
Would you also support taking away from the states the right to select the person they wish to have represent them or would you just limit the people from doing so? By supporting repeal of the 17th, the answer to the first is obvious. Either we choose to live in a Republic, or we choose to continue the unsustainable path of the devolution of democracy in America, per de Tocqueville. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 9, 2011 14:20:47 GMT -5
Would you also support taking away from the states the right to select the person they wish to have represent them or would you just limit the people from doing so? By supporting repeal of the 17th, the answer to the first is obvious. Either we choose to live in a Republic, or we choose to continue the unsustainable path of the devolution of democracy in America, per de Tocqueville. Sorry, it isn't obvious. Would term limits apply to state legislature appointed Senators? |
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Post by traelin0 on Jan 9, 2011 14:25:46 GMT -5
Sorry, it isn't obvious. Would term limits apply to state legislature appointed Senators? The state legislatures and their parliamentary procedures should be handled by the states. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 9, 2011 14:41:50 GMT -5
Sorry, it isn't obvious. Would term limits apply to state legislature appointed Senators? The state legislatures and their parliamentary procedures should be handled by the states. So you trust state politicians to do right. Would you still dictate to the people who they couldn't have as their representative? |
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Post by traelin0 on Jan 9, 2011 14:52:07 GMT -5
So you trust state politicians to do right. Would you still dictate to the people who they couldn't have as their representative? I didn't say that. However, the more local govt. is, the more control the people have over it. It is not "dictating" to the people as to who they can have to represent them because the state of affairs in our country is such that the special interests are the only ones being represented. With that being said, I am well aware that it makes no sense to expect DC to limit its own powers. I am effectively tilting at windmills. Thus I prepare myself and my family for the consequences of their decisions. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 9, 2011 14:57:47 GMT -5
"It is not "dictating" to the people as to who they can have to represent them..."
Term limits certainly is dictating to the people who they can not have represent them.
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Post by traelin0 on Jan 9, 2011 14:59:31 GMT -5
Term limits certainly is dictating to the people who they can not have represent them. No, it's not. Men were not meant to be trusted for life, as Jefferson said. When they are lifers, they aren't representing the people. Don't worry though. The status quo will not change, at least not by the choice of Americans. I guarantee it, LOL. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 9, 2011 15:08:58 GMT -5
Term limits certainly is dictating to the people who they can not have represent them. No, it's not. I want person X to represent me. A law was passed that says that person X can't represent me because he/she has represented me for a certain number of years. Therefore I can not have person X represent me. Talk all around the issue if you wish, reality is. |
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Post by traelin0 on Jan 9, 2011 15:12:12 GMT -5
I want person X to represent me. A law was passed that says that person X can't represent me because he/she has represented me for a certain number of years. Therefore I can not have person X represent me. Talk all around the issue if you wish, reality is. Reality is what? That humans are inherently flawed and absolute power corrupts absolutely, and our country isn't screwed due to lifers and special interests? Or? Tell you what. Pay the Congressmen the same as jurors, give them the same benefits, and have citizens' trials for those who violate the law. Then come back to me and talk. My guess is that the term limits debate will be moot at that point. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 9, 2011 15:17:02 GMT -5
I want person X to represent me. A law was passed that says that person X can't represent me because he/she has represented me for a certain number of years. Therefore I can not have person X represent me. Talk all around the issue if you wish, reality is. Reality is what? That humans are inherently flawed and absolute power corrupts absolutely, and our country isn't screwed due to lifers and special interests? Or? Tell you what. Pay the Congressmen the same as jurors, give them the same benefits, and have citizens' trials for those who violate the law. Then come back to me and talk. My guess is that the term limits debate will be moot at that point. I don't wish to have only the independently wealthy as choices for office. |
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Post by traelin0 on Jan 9, 2011 15:19:56 GMT -5
I don't wish to have only the independently wealthy as choices for office.Oh yeah, I'm sure that was Franklin's intent as outlined in the Anti-Fed Papers. We agree to disagree. There's not much else to say except that we should invest accordingly and compare notes in 5 years. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 9, 2011 15:27:36 GMT -5
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Post by traelin0 on Jan 9, 2011 15:33:07 GMT -5
OK, well I do because I respect your opinion...?  Like I alluded to, time will reveal the truth...? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2011 16:48:21 GMT -5
Reality is what? That humans are inherently flawed and absolute power corrupts absolutely, and our country isn't screwed due to lifers and special interests? Or? Tell you what. Pay the Congressmen the same as jurors, give them the same benefits, and have citizens' trials for those who violate the law. Then come back to me and talk. My guess is that the term limits debate will be moot at that point. I don't wish to have only the independently wealthy as choices for office. So, then... why would you want the independently wealthy, who always get elected, to represent you forever and ever as they work their way up the food chain to life time Cadillac benefits?? That does not make sense. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 9, 2011 17:09:04 GMT -5
I don't wish to have only the independently wealthy as choices for office. So, then... why would you want the independently wealthy, who always get elected, to represent you forever and ever as they work their way up the food chain to life time Cadillac benefits?? That does not make sense. I believe that the problems inherent in a revolving door Congress are as bad as the problems we have now. The only solution to the problems is for the American people, as they see fit, to elect new people into office. |
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Post by traelin0 on Jan 9, 2011 18:03:16 GMT -5
I believe that the problems inherent in a revolving door Congress are as bad as the problems we have now. The only solution to the problems is for the American people, as they see fit, to elect new people into office. That's because you seem to think Congress should actually *do* something. I'd rather them just live within the bounds of the Constitution and go home, instead of embedding themselves in the system and abusing it. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 9, 2011 18:10:47 GMT -5
I believe that the problems inherent in a revolving door Congress are as bad as the problems we have now. The only solution to the problems is for the American people, as they see fit, to elect new people into office. That's because you seem to think Congress should actually *do* something. I'd rather them just live within the bounds of the Constitution and go home, instead of embedding themselves in the system and abusing it. Do you think that someone who knows that they will only be there a short period of time will not attempt to get more done in that shorter period of time. |
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Post by traelin0 on Jan 9, 2011 18:19:44 GMT -5
Do you think that someone who knows that they will only be there a short period of time will not attempt to get more done in that shorter period of time. They aren't supposed to be actively "doing" things the way they are now. Now I'm not so sure if it's me tilting at windmills, or you. The system as it currently exists is unsustainable. I'm afraid you are going to be in for a rude awakening when it ends. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 9, 2011 18:29:41 GMT -5
We both are tilting.
"They aren't supposed to be..." Okay. Term limits won't stop it, it will just continually change who "they" are.
"...rude awakening..." I am awake. I fully agree that the system is not sustainable. Term limits will not make it sustainable.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jan 9, 2011 18:30:12 GMT -5
Do you think that someone who knows that they will only be there a short period of time will not attempt to get more done in that shorter period of time. They aren't supposed to be actively "doing" things the way they are now. Now I'm not so sure if it's me tilting at windmills, or you. The system as it currently exists is unsustainable. I'm afraid you are going to be in for a rude awakening when it ends. I realize , at least from your posts, that doom and gloom and the end of times as we know it is a big part of your mantra, however , 235 years so far, which is very young when you think about it, there are outhouses in Europe centuries older, but we seem to be doing OK so far, some ups an downs , I believe the downs actually started bout 7/4/1776 to be honest with you, just a natural progression..always some problems and always some one with the doom and gloom and plan A and B and a way out of town to some where better..or to the hills in a bunker to hold out till times get better or they are the only ones left.  |
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Post by traelin0 on Jan 9, 2011 18:37:11 GMT -5
LOL. It's not doom and gloom to look at the facts for what they are. One can go on believing that America will be that one nation which lasts forever, even when it spends that which it doesn't have. Or one can wake up.
I can't believe anyone could think the downs started in 1776. If you like Europe so much, move there. Noone is stopping you.
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