ÈÉêrs: Tempered Wisdom or Wanton Obliviousness

[Virgil Showlion]

There's no doubt about it: the forums are a-titter. The US debt crisis has reached yet another milestone.

Budgets are being slashed. Debt ceilings are being hit and raised. The most optimistic projections require 10% GDP growth per year until 2020 (a feat that is, statistically speaking, impossible) if the US is to remain solvent. And even this is provided a balanced budget amendment can be passed and seniors are thrown under the bus.

Will such an amendment even see the light of day? Some have their doubts. Independent credit agencies have started downgrading US credit in expectation of what every US policymaker fears but will never admit is possible: a technical US default.



Market Talk is a-buzz about it. The P&Mers shout about it. YMers debate it, and the subject has even cropped up on WIR, which rarely discusses federal policy.

Amid this clamor and calumny, we find the denizens of EE, whose attitude (for lack of a terse written description) can be represented by the image:


...but for what reason?

Are Eers wantonly oblivious to the threat facing their nation, or are they seeking temporary refuge from the tumult spread across the rest of the board?

Is the threat real and important to them, or do they ascribe to a laissez-faire-it-will-eventually-sort-itself-out attitude for sake of their health and happiness?

In short: what kind of escapism does EE provide?

What say you, EEer? How would you characterize your view of the US debt crisis?

[tallguy]

I think they start out just as serious about the debt crisis as those on other boards. But $4 trillion is really hard to wrap one's head around. So in an attempt to make sense of that number, they start thinking of it in alternate terms. When they get to 16 trillion bright, shiny, new quarters....

It's all over at that point....

[busymom]

Oooooo Shiny!! (Gold & Silver--LOL!)

Actually, I do think about & discuss the debt crisis frequently with coworkers. Occasionally I give my opinion on the boards. But, sadly, talking about it doesn't change the situation. I'm just making the best decisions I can for my family, & hoping the government gets their act together....


Virgil, you selected the PERFECT comic regarding this! ;D

[Wisconsin Beth]

You forgot to include "I care and I feel uneasy that they're going to resolve it." as a poll option.

And the comic is awesome. ;D

[rovo]

Discussing the issue does not solve the issue. Those most concerned would be well advised to email your Congressmen with your thoughts. Also the debt/debt ceiling problem is being used as a scare tactic with the proclaimed effects being greater than has been proven by past shutdowns.

[Bluerobin]

At this point, I want to see the government default. Enough of this BS. Time these AH politicians got called on the carpet.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Jul 19, 2011 8:37:25 GMT -5 @daphne87 said:

Oh no -- Blue's avatar has gone the way of CL's!!

What is the world coming to?? (The sky is falling, the sky is falling! )

Mine will probably be next. I think disappearing avatars is a bigger issue for EE'ers than a poll about political discussions

[Deleted]

Do you think voting has something to do with losing your avatar?!?!?!

[Virgil Showlion]

Good to see so many "I care's" up there.

Also the debt/debt ceiling problem is being used as a scare tactic with the proclaimed effects being greater than has been proven by past shutdowns.

There's never been a shutdown that lasted more than a few hours.

[busymom]

There's never been a shutdown that lasted more than a few hours.


Except in Minnesota. It's still shut down.

[rovo]

Virgil: There's never been a shutdown that lasted more than a few hours.

Is that true? Why do I remember one lasting days? Faulty memory?

[rovo]

Before the Ronald Reagan administration, there was never an issue over spending or the budget to cause a government shutdown. Some agencies had to shut down because of budget issues in the 1970s, but there was never a full government shutdown. Since then, there have been a few:


Date(s): Nov. 23, 1981.

Issue: President Ronald Reagan won’t sign Congress’ continuing resolution.

Result: 400,000 federal employees sent home.

Resolution: Reagan signs a revised version of the continuing resolution.

Time: 1/2 day.


Date(s): Oct. 4, 1984.

Issue: Congress fails to pass a stopgap money bill when a new budget was not passed for the upcoming fiscal year.

Result: 500,000 civil servants go home in a partial shutdown.

Resolution: Emergency spending bill passes.

Time: 1/2 day.


Date(s): Oct. 17, 1986.

Issue: Reagan and Congress can’t agree on a new fiscal budget. Congress fails to pass a spending bill.

Result: 500,000 non-essential federal employees go home at midday.

Resolution: Emergency spending bill passes.

Time: 1/2 day.


Date(s): Oct. 6, 1990.

Issue: President George H.W. Bush, backing up his campaign promise that he wouldn’t increase any taxes, vetoes a budget for 1991 that includes a tax increase.

Result: Government is shut down through the three-day Columbus weekend.

Resolution: Bush signs a continuance over the weekend but ultimately agrees to a tax increase by signing the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act on Nov. 5.

Time: Three days.


Date(s): Nov. 13, 1995.

Issue: President Bill Clinton had vetoed many appropriation bills in the 1996 budget, specifically funding amounts for key social programs. As a result, the Republican Congress doesn’t vote on a continuance to keep the government operating on the previous fiscal year’s spending limits.

Result: At midnight, a partial shutdown leads to 800,000 non-essential employees being told not to come into work.

Resolution: Temporary spending bill ends shutdown.

Time: 1/2 day.


Date(s): Dec. 16, 1995 to Jan. 5, 1996.

Issue: Temporary funding measure expires with no continuance signed, mainly because of a disagreement between Clinton and Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich.

Result: Major portions of the federal government become inoperative because of the shutdown, which include losses of $400 million in the form of payments to furloughed federal employees, who do not report to work.

Resolution: Another temporary spending bill ends shutdown, but government does not go back to fully functioning until April. Clinton submits a seven-year budget plan approved by the Congressional Budget Office.

Time: 21 days.
www.palmbeachpost.com/news/timeline-history-of-u-s-government-shutdowns-1388490.html

[Virgil Showlion]

The whole affair lasted a few days. But the period where the government actually ran out of operating cash was, as I say, limited to about 16 hours. And "shut down" is an arguable description to begin with. The Treasury was using all kinds of hoodoo with short term notes to make sure nothing critical actually got shut down.

ETA: I didn't realize there was more than two.

[Virgil Showlion]

Well, I stand corrected. EEers do care, it seems. That's always good to know.

[Chocolate Lover]

Of course we do, but we don't come here to bum ourselves out further, we come to forget we have to be adults the rest of the time

[Taxman10]

Jul 19, 2011 12:31:37 GMT -5 Chocolate Lover said:

Of course we do, but we don't come here to bum ourselves out further, we come to forget we have to be adults the rest of the time

we do??

D'oh!!

[Chocolate Lover]

Most of us do, Tax, you have a wife for that.





That poor woman.....

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

Jul 19, 2011 12:30:26 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Well, I stand corrected. EEers do care, it seems. That's always good to know.

We're not just fluff Virgil...we're tough fluff that can think sometimes.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jul 19, 2011 7:56:22 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

You forgot to include "I care and I feel uneasy that they're going to resolve it." as a poll option.

I haven't voted because you don't have my option in there.

[Chocolate Lover]

which would be what Beth?

I care, but I think they're all full of hot air and just out to add as much of their own pork as possible to the package before they sign it at midnight in order to get as much press out of it as possible..

[Deleted]

Hee Hee... "titter".

[swamp]

Jul 19, 2011 13:46:49 GMT -5 Chocolate Lover said:

which would be what Beth?

I care, but I think they're all full of hot air and just out to add as much of their own pork as possible to the package before they sign it at midnight in order to get as much press out of it as possible..

[Peace Of Mind]

I care and DH and I discuss it together. And a few friends who care and I discuss it. The only thing I know for sure is that what politicians do, and the REAL reasons they do it ... I will never know. But I do know those reasons are self serving in some capacity, to them and their buddies, and their own personal agendas - regardless of party.

[Artemis Windsong]

Use the foreign aid to balance our budget first.

Contacting your representatives invites a look from pd.

[rovo]

Jul 19, 2011 16:15:02 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

Contacting your representatives invites a look from pd.

What? I suggested contacting, not threatening. My Rep takes my emails and thanks me for writing to him. He also has me on his list for a quarterly conference call.

[Virgil Showlion]

rovo: What? I suggested contacting, not threatening. My Rep takes my emails and thanks me for writing to him.

Artemis: Oh. Ohhhhhhh.

[Sammy]

Virgil, FYI, you placed the poll on the wrong board. The mental stress you have insisted on foisting upon the citizens of this community is unfair, cruel and down right stinky.

[Peace Of Mind]

Jul 19, 2011 12:30:26 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Well, I stand corrected. EEers do care, it seems. That's always good to know.

Virgil - stop trying to justify loving us. Just embrace it.

[Sammy]

[tallguy]

Jul 19, 2011 21:07:53 GMT -5 Peace Of Mind said:

Jul 19, 2011 12:30:26 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Well, I stand corrected. EEers do care, it seems. That's always good to know.

Virgil - stop trying to justify loving us. Just embrace it.

He did embrace it. Fortunately, he's Canadian. They have universal health care.