Governor Brewer's Death Panels?

[Tennesseer]

PHOENIX (CBS/AP) A second person cut from the transplant list has died in Arizona. The death "most likely" resulted from the state's refusal to pay for certain transplants, a hospital spokeswoman said Wednesday.

"His condition has gotten more severe since he was taken off the list," said University Medical Center spokeswoman Jo Marie Gellerman.

The patient's worsening condition would have elevated his place on the liver donor list, she added. But the point was moot.

The patient could not afford the transplant and Arizona refused to pay for it. Arizona reduced Medicaid coverage for transplants on Oct. 1 under cuts included to help close a shortfall in the state budget enacted last spring.


Gellerman said the patient died Dec. 28. He had hepatitis C. Medical privacy requirements prevented the release of any information about the patient.

This is the second death linked to Arizona's controversial cost cutting. Last November, the Associated Press and others told the story of Mark Price, a Phoenix-area man desperately in need of a bone-marrow transplant. He couldn't afford it and state's Medcaid program wasn't angling to pay for it.

After the press coverage, anonymous donors offered to pay for the transplant, but Price died from complications in preparation for the surgery.

www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20027668-10391704.html

Should this have occurred? The irony here is it occurred in a Republican state with a republican governor. And it was the republicans who were complaining about President Obama's 'death panels'.

Your thoughts?

[sanityjones]

Since we do not know diddly about the patient all we could do is indulge in conjectural thought, which would be silly don't you think?

[dmsm]

Does not surprise me at all. Nothing they do anymore surprises me. Look at who they voted in as govenor says a lot.

[Tennesseer]

Since we do not know diddly about the patient all we could do is indulge in conjectural thought, which would be silly don't you think?

Not really Sanity. A transplant had the potental of saving both patients, Medicaid recipients. Both of these patients qualified for transplants prior to the change in Arizona October 1st of this year. Even the best patient suited for a transplant often succumbs.

According to ABC News:
"On Oct. 1, the Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System stopped paying for seven types of transplants that the state's GOP governor, Jan Brewer, and GOP-led legislature said they could no longer afford. The state faces a projected $1 billion program deficit by July 2011.

"They eliminated heart transplants for non-ischemic cardiomyopathy, lung transplants, pancreatic transplants, some bone marrow transplants, and liver transplants for patients infected with hepatitis C. Arizona also restricted coverage of prosthetics, eliminated podiatric services, preventive dental services, and wellness and physical exams for adult Medicaid enrollees."
abcnews.go.com/Health/News/arizona-transplant-deaths/story?id=12559369

Sounds and reads to me like a death panel.

[sanityjones]

Politics and agendas aside, life is a death panel.

[Politically_Incorrect12]

Jan 6, 2011 19:14:30 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

They eliminated heart transplants for non-ischemic cardiomyopathy, lung transplants, pancreatic transplants, some bone marrow transplants, and liver transplants for patients infected with hepatitis C. Arizona also restricted coverage of prosthetics, eliminated podiatric services, preventive dental services, and wellness and physical exams for adult Medicaid enrollees."
abcnews.go.com/Health/News/arizona-transplant-deaths/story?id=12559369

Sounds and reads to me like a death panel.

So you're saying that government run insurance has its limits? So you agree that the government is the savior that the left seems to claim it is when it comes to medical coverage?

[dmsm]

The only limits I see are on the poor.. the disabled . But this does not surprise me at all. You see a lot of working poor would love to have some kind of health care. We have worked hard all of our lives never on welfare and now can not afford insurance. This country needs to step it up. If you did not have these workers things would grind to a sudden stop. Being middle or upper class does not make you any better than te man and woman who work hard to provide.

[deziloooooo]

Isn't this why the Medical plan was passed , so States would not have to make these decisions based on costs for people who are uninsured or can't pay for them? Medicaid is the program for those who have nothing..

Sanity is correct in one way, we know nothing about these to cases.

The age of, other medical conditions and problems, the prognosis, however it seems those were not the reason the treatments weren't done...
From what I read, certain procedures were not going to be covered no matter the prognosis, age of the patient. period.

Possible the Governor or a legislature who supported those decisions should have to be made to sit in, not asking them to be part of the discussion.

Be there , present, as the patient and family are told by the staff and Doctors that "yes a treatment might be helpful or have a good chance for success understanding all procedures have risk, even simple appendectomies, but because of the finances , the state will not cover them"
Who knows , after a half dozen of those , the Governor or legislature will become immune to the raction , just another day in the life of a elected official.

If asked by the patient or family member, " then what is probably going to be the outcome", they are there to hear the answer.
" I am sorry to tell you , with out the treatment you are going to die."

[handyman2]

Not a doctor but I do know another case in another state where the patient had severe hepatitis -c and it was determined that a transplant was ruled out because the condition of the patient deemed the transplant would not likely to be successful in saving the patient.
Would be a tough call if in fact there was even an organ for transplant.

[floridayankee]

Jan 6, 2011 19:14:30 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sounds and reads to me like a death panel.

It sounds to me like another reason to rally against government bureaucrats running health care.

[sesfw]

IMO this comes back to the illegal immigration battle we are fighting.

I think the 'anchor baby' problem can be solved by one sentence. The baby has the same legal/citizenship status as the birth mother.

This would take a lot of people off public health care and just might leave enough for legal citizen to have the care needed. This would also take a lot of kids out of the public school system and free up funds for the legal kids that need the education. Just think how much money would be saved in SS payments.

WOW, just getting rid of the anchor babies has so many advantages to it. I'm all for it. I can't think of a single dis-advantage.

[ungenteel]

What's new .. righties are hypocrites .. remember the Schiavo ruckus a few years ago ... righites were obsessed with keeping her hooked up .. but ignored that it was on gummint dollars .. now righties whole focus is keeping the gummint out of health care spending

[Deleted]

We do not have the medical records. I am guessing that the patient was so sick they would have died any way. Isn't this what Obama wants-- the same kind of evaluation of end of life care?? If so, wouldn't you be a hypocrite to criticize AZ for doing the same thing... and that is IF they are. It could VERY well be that this patient, and the other, were far too sick to even live through a transplant, forget living a semi-normal life afterwards.
AZ is in the hole big time. Full of illegals, and they all get free medical. Get rid of the illegals, that do NOT BELONG HERE, and we can get a better fix on medical in our state, as well as education. There is a REASON we come in at the bottom in education-- and the reason is illegals.
I have no insurance, and have not for years. I fully expect to be allowed to die if, when, I get sick with something really bad and expensive to treat, because I am expendable. AHH-- to be rich and sick. But, that is not where I am at, and I do not expect the government, on any level, to do one single thing to keep me alive if I get sick. Best thing to do if you are poor like me is try to stay healthy.

[billisonboard]

"I am guessing that the patient was so sick they would have died any way."

Actually we are talking about denial of treatment on purely financial issues:

"Shepherd got on the transplant list in July 2009. He was at the top of the list, but when AHCCCS cuts went into effect Oct. 1, he had no way to pay for it anymore. The hospital placed him on the inactive wait list.

Read more: www.azcentral.com/news/election/azelections/articles/2010/12/19/20101219state-budget-crisis-health.html#ixzz1AT4sBl00

[deziloooooo]

Morning Krickett...

"I have no insurance, and have not for years. I fully expect to be allowed to die if, when, I get sick with something really bad and expensive to treat, because I am expendable."
------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I told you before Krickett, if your alive , and I do hope you will be, when the Insurance kicks in for all..there is a time line as you know, YOU and others in your situation, WILL have Insurance, same as I and the same right to a Doctor of your choice that I have.

Not have to run to IR for treatment , which is basically stabilizing oneself, not true medical care. If your not able to pay your share.
if your in that situation, then you will still have Insurance under a government program. if you don't want to go to a Doctor then that will be your call..no one is going to make you.
This program is designed not just to get health cares under some kind of control but to increase coverage for those who are not insured because of income. you and yours fall into that area.

If things improve for you and you are making wages that are sufficient under the plan for a cost to be put on you, yes , then you will have to pay for your Insurance as all others do and no you won't be able to opt out. If you do , then I think there is a cost. That's part of the plan.

If that's what you are objecting to , being forced to be covered if you are eligible and have a income to pay your share, well,can't help you there.

It's been a long time, like never, when the Government allowed me to say were I want my tax dollars spent and where I don't.

Since this program is going to benefit you, your family and others like you and you have been so against it, to be honest, to me it doesn't compute, your objection, to me. I have tried to understand it..and I can't.

If your objection is because you think in the big picture it is harmful for the country, in this I would suggest, stop looking at the big picture, take care of yourself and yours and spend your energies on something else.
If you can't look out for yourself first and your loved ones you won't be around to help out when called for the big picture decisions.

First obligation, unless you are one of the military, the first responders , is your family, loved ones and then you in that order. Then that taken care of, look up and help others if possible.

The military, the first responders and others in that situation, well that is another argument...but if your not taking care of what I suggested above first, then you won't be able to do the other.

Naturally that is IMHO.

[Tennesseer]

Krickitt-the folks who died were already dying-ergo the need for a transplants.

They did not die because the state of Arizona deemed them not to be a good candidate for a transplant. They died because on October 1, 2010, the state of Arizona stated they would no long pay for transplants (under Medicaid) that involved: "They eliminated heart transplants for non-ischemic cardiomyopathy, lung transplants, pancreatic transplants, some bone marrow transplants, and liver transplants for patients infected with hepatitis C. Arizona also restricted coverage of prosthetics, eliminated podiatric services, preventive dental services, and wellness and physical exams for adult Medicaid enrollees." (See reply #3 on this thread).
abcnews.go.com/Health/News/arizona-transplant-deaths/story?id=12559369

These two patients who died were already approved for a transplant prior to October 1st. Unfortunately a correct donor match was not found for them by September 30th.

Also krickitt-can you please post here your interpretation of what the End of Life discussion with a doctor entails. Can you tell me (and others) what exactly what issues are discussed in these meetings between dying patient and doctor. I would appreciate a response.

Thanks.

[Tennesseer]

krickitt-you might want to give this link a read. It is about End of Life decision making which includes discussing issues with your doctor. This is the exact same thing President Obama wants everyone to do if they so wish.

And don't worry-there are not viruses or anything else wrong with the link. It was prepared by the St. Cloud Hospital in St. Cloud, Minnesota.

www.centracare.com/hospitals/sch/services/spiritual_care/end_of_life_decisions.pdf

Read it and then tell me what you think.

[Deleted]

Tenn-- as a moderator and a long time troll of mine-- you might want to just back off and not address me at all.

[billisonboard]

krickitt,
the members of this board selected tenn... as a moderator. Doesn't remove the right to post ideas here. Please don't get into the name calling.

[Tennesseer]

krickitt-If you have a problem with me there is a little icon called Report to Mod on the bottom of each post. If you have a problem with me, I suggest you click it. Another mod will address your concern (if warranted). The moderator will review the messages I have posted here which are addressed to you from me.

Otherwise, I will continue to respond to your posts and ask questions if I need clarification.

Thank you.

Tennesseer/Moderator

[Deleted]

Check his past posts-- see how he posts TO me. Back off, Tenn.

[Tennesseer]

Krickitt-if you are referring to posts from other boards, we don't allow posts/quotes from other boards. It saves posters from potential embarrassment and problems here.

So please don't bring posts and other personal stuff from other boards.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Tennesseer/Moderator

[dmsm]

I can no longer understand why anyone who could not afford it would not want health care. I want to be here to see my great granchildren grow up. I want to be healthy enough to enjoy life to the fullest. To not want that for eveyone is so odd. I do not wake in the morning and say oh well if I die ok. I am going to fight for quality of life for me and others like me who have worked damn hard all their lives and deserve healthcare too. If I can afford to pay for it good i would be happy too if not then I will be thank-ful for the healthcare that is available. And please explain who is going to pay YOUR medical bills if you get hurt badly and end up at hospital and if you have no healthcare? Who pays?? They will treat you so who pays?