What to do when reason is not on the same page as

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"I just get this vibe from Cawiau that he likes to do things his way, without taking his wife's feelings into consideration.":::...

I think its more that she wants to do what she wants to do without thinking of the future. He's said many times that she has said she'd spend every penny that comes in if he'd let her, because she wants nice things. The fact that $1k/month goes towards her SLs can't help either.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

True, just with baby fever it can backfire in your face if you give a green light (intentional or not) that you are ready. She might be starting to think about sooner than 3-5 years while he is still thinking "3-5 years".

It's not a bad idea to revisit the topic rather than hoping if you avoid babies she'll get back on the timeline and keep talking herself out of wanting one sooner.

[thyme4change]

I think its more that she wants to do what she wants to do without thinking of the future.

Because a culture that values giving up everything so your kids can have anything would never, ever produce a generation of people who need nice things and instant gratification. Right?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Thyme

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"Because a culture that values giving up everything so your kids can have anything would never, ever produce a generation of people who need nice things and instant gratification. Right?":::...

Those things apparently including pressure cookers that never get used, and "another" new purse to toss in the closet. Then again, she talked herself out of getting pregnant, and cited the reasons that BOTH of them agreed to for waiting as why, so perhaps there is hope.

I based my statement on her (improving) spending habits, the way she almost upgraded the wedding on impulse without consideration of how to pay for it, and countless other "act now, think later" instances.

[shanendoah]

Jul 8, 2011 14:35:27 GMT -5 Frugal Nurse said:

Good luck on getting her to wait a few more years. When the baby bug bites, it bites hard. I would get so upset with DH when he kept putting it off. For him, it was about money. For me, it was a very emotional thing. It took a lot of tears, a lot of pleading my case, and a lot of budgeting to show DH we were ready to start trying for a baby.

For the sake of your wife's emotions, please don't be too hard on her about this issue. If you can afford it, and it isn't an emotional issue for her, let her start trying when she is ready. I can't tell you how much it hurt to see all my friends having babies and me feeling held back by my DH. Plus, you might end up one of the 20% of people who lose a pregnancy (like I was...twice in a row). Although I know it is not DH's fault, part of me feels some resentment about the fact that he made me wait. Had we started trying sooner, I might already be a mother. You don't want to put your wife through that.

I'm not trying to turn this into a therapy session for me or anything, DH and I worked through this already, but I wanted to give you some perspective of what your wife might be feeling.

Trust me, I can understand where you're coming from, but have you ever thought of it from your DH's prospective? Here he is, not certain yet if he's ready to be a father, probably using the practical and financial as reasons because he's afraid to say to you "I am not ready to be a father" when you're so emotional about the situation.
You have some resentment toward him because you had trouble conceiving once you started trying. Can you imagine the resentment you'd feel if you'd started trying earlier, still lost the baby, and he felt relieved? Or the resentment you'd have if you'd had the baby, and he, really not ready to be a dad, wasn't one? Left all the work of the baby to you and distanced himself emotionally from both of you?

Having kids is an emotional issue. I know. I'm 35. I don't have kids. And I want them. But I want them with DH. I want him to be a father as much as I want to be a mother.

If cawiau isn't ready to be a father, he should NOT let his DW emotionally blackmail him in to it. I'm glad your DH did not let you emotionally blackmail him in to it (or that at least he was able to hold off for a while before giving in).
In a marriage (or any stable relationship) its not just the woman having a child. Its not just her wishes that should be catered to when deciding whether or not to start a family. It really needs to be a joint decision by both partners in the relationship.
And sometimes, you really do have to accept that you can't keep up with the Jones's- whether its material things or having kids. You have to do what is right for both people in the relationship. Because when it comes to having kids, if you ignore one partner's wishes, guess who end up paying...

edited to fix spelling/punctuation mistakes

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

It would really benefit them both to double check they are still on the same timeline. As I posted DH would have been thrilled to start trying on the honeymoon. I had in my head that we'd wait a few years.

It blew up in our faces around our first year of marriage when he decided he was "ready" and I was like "Whoa wait a minute! I thought we were going to wait several years!"

Turns out his idea of "waiting" was 1-2 years. Mine was 3-5! It never occurred to use to check with the other and see exactly how long we planned on waiting.

We ended up shelving it and when it came up again we were finally both on the same page, but it created A LOT of fights before we agreed to drop the subject for awhile.

She talked herself out of it this time and agreed to 2-3 years this time, but if she keeps talking about babies it might be a good idea to sit down and have a real discussion about a timeline so they are both still on the same page.

Because one day it might backfire in the OP's face playing Devil's Advocate if she is starting to think sooner rather than later and he still thinks they are going to wait a couple more years.

Communication doesn't seem like a strong point in their marriage based on some posts and this is one place where you want to both be 100% certain you are on the same page.

[Frugal Nurse]

Trust me, I can understand where you're coming from, but have you ever thought of it from your DH's prospective? Here he is, not certain yet if he's ready to be a father, probably using the practical and financial as reasons because he's afraid to say to you "I am not ready to be a father" when you're so emotional about the situation.

DH is is pretty straight with me. He would have told me he wasn't emotionally ready if he wasn't emotionally ready. He worries about money more than I do, and that was his biggest issue with trying to start a family. In his mind, babies are basically little cash registers that you have to put all of your money into. (I know they're expensive, but he was a little unrealistic about it). He is not afraid to say anything to me, good or bad, but he will say it respectfully.

You have some resentment toward him because you had trouble conceiving once you started trying. Can you imagine the resentment you'd feel if you'd started trying earlier, still lost the baby, and he felt relieved? Or the resentment you'd have if you'd had the baby, and he, really not ready to be a dad, wasn't one? Left all the work of the baby to you and distanced himself emotionally from both of you?

These situations wouldn't happen, because I didn't marry a complete jerk. I married a responsible, loving man who would not abandon me or feel "relief" at the death of his child (really, there are men that would be "relieved" that their unborn kid's heart stopped beating? really?)

It really needs to be a joint decision by both partners in the relationship.

Wouldn't that mean considering the wife's point of view, as well as the husband's?

And sometimes, you really do have to accept that you can't keep up with the Jones's- whether its material things or having kids.

I didn't realize having a baby was "keeping up with the Joneses"

You have to do what is right for both people in the relationship. Because when it comes to having kids, if you ignore one partner's wishes, guess who end up paying...

I agree you have to do what is right for both people. So instead of Caiwau shooting his wife down, he needs to realize that this may be a much more emotional thing for her than it is for him

[Angel!]

Jul 8, 2011 14:54:35 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

Their finances are NOT ready for a kid right now, unless they make some serious changes in both attitude and lifestyle. If they have a kid before at the very least, the CC and cars are paid off, then they will be fighting constantly about money.

I don't think their finances are in bad shape at all. I remembers cawiau's thread about how do people ever afford kids & they could easily afford kids if they were willing to adjust other things in their budget & could stick to a tight budget (which would be questionable with his wife). I would guess they are already better off that 80% of people that get pregnant.

[Angel!]

Also, on the topic of waiting & having an honest conversation. Be honest, but also realize if she wants a baby now, telling her you want to wait 10 years isn't going to go over well. One of the reasons things fell apart with my ex is that when I started wanting a baby he told me in all seriousness that we would discuss it in 10 years. I didn't need a baby right then, but I had no intention of waiting until I was 34 to consider having a child. The wierd thing was is that we had discussed having a family before & he definitely wanted kids, but I guess when things really started to head that direction for me he wasn't ready at all or had changed his mind.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Be honest, but also realize if she wants a baby now, telling her you want to wait 10 years isn't going to go over well.

True. DH didn't speak to me for a few days after I told him I wasn't even sure I wanted kids period, let alone right now.

Still was better at least for us to know where we stood because then we could work it out. He backed off on having kids and I agreed we'd revisit the topic in a year.

[Formerly SK]

Jul 8, 2011 15:45:59 GMT -5 Frugal Nurse said:

These situations wouldn't happen, because I didn't marry a complete jerk. I married a responsible, loving man who would not abandon me or feel "relief" at the death of his child (really, there are men that would be "relieved" that their unborn kid's heart stopped beating? really?)

Ummmm....there are lots of people who feel relieved after miscarriages. Heck, there are LOTS of people who get abortions. An unwanted pregnancy can make life really difficult for people - being happy that an unwanted pregnancy ended is perfectly normal if you didn't want to be a parent in the first place.

Personally, I've never had an abortion and I probably wouldn't. But, if I were to accidentally get preggo now (DH had a vasectomy after DC#2 so it's unlikely) I would argue with all my heart to give the baby away to a loving couple. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to be a parent. In fact, I'd argue it is better to be honest about it and do something about it than to have the child and neglect it because you aren't cut out to make all the sacrifices parenting entails. We know several fantastic couples who cannot have children. It would give me so much joy to give them a baby.

[telephus44]

I also get the vibe from cawiau's posts that he just isn't 100% ready. I can't remember when I started following these board, but haven't they been 2-3 years away from trying for the last 2-3 years? I do sense that cawiau is falling into the "I have to wait until my finances are in perfect order" line of thinking. And they aren't that far off - they save a boatload for retirement, are paying way a lot extra on the student loans, and spend pretty heavily on eating out/traveling/entertainment. I think they could easily afford to have a baby if they were willing to cut back spending in other areas.

I know when we agreed to start trying DH really freaked out the first month. He really wasn't into it at all. It's funny, because I think this time around DH is a lot more excited about it than I am.

I think it would help cawiau if they actually picked a time - not "2-3 years away" or "when all the debt is paid off" because those are too vague. They need to say "we'll start trying in May of 2012" or whatever they agree on. I think it would help both of them to have a real date.

[Frugal Nurse]

I will admit that I can see Cawiau's dilemma, as I am going through a sort of "reason vs. emotions" situation right now too. I've already stated my pregnancy history and my strong desire to have a baby. However, I earlier this week I accepted a job offer for a full-time night shift position in an ICU (which is a wonderful change for me). I will be starting my new job on Aug. 1, benefits kick in 30 days after that, and 90 days after my start date I am eligible for a sign-on bonus, which would require a one year contract. The emotional side of me wants to get pregnant right.this.minute. instead of waiting for September 1, even though waiting for Sept. 1 means that I would qualify for maternity leave. The rational side of me says to wait so that I can sign the contract and get the $$. Would we be fine without the maternity leave and the sign on bonus? Yep. Would my new boss be understanding about my pregnancy? Yep (of course, pregnancy is kind of a given among the nursing profession. We are a big group of very maternal women- mostly). But the rational side of me likes the idea of that extra money. As of now, I'm waiting, because I have an appt. with a high risk OB on Monday to discuss the plan for future pregnancies. If there is a strong likelihood of me needing bedrest, I'm going to wait until that maternity leave kicks in! DH doesn't care either way. So I get where you're coming from, in a way.

[shanendoah]

Frugalnurse: Believe it or not, I'm not trying to pick on you. This is obviously a very emtional topic for you, so maybe the message I'm getting in your post is not the message you intended to send, but lets go through piece by piece, and I'll try to show you what I am "hearing", and I accept that that may not be what you are trying to say.

You say in your response that DH is not afraid to say anything to you. And maybe that's true, but I don't know many guys who honestly love their wives, who are going to say they emotionally aren't ready for children when there is "a lot of tears, a lot of pleading". In fact, the guy might see it as a "complete jerk" thing to do. So they fall back on the guy things- finances and practicality. In their minds, they aren't telling you "no" then, they are telling you "soon".

As for the fact that you "didn't marry a complete jerk. I married a responsible, loving man who would not abandon me or feel "relief" at the death of his child (really, there are men that would be "relieved" that their unborn kid's heart stopped beating? really?)" know that yes, people who have been emotionally blackmailed in to a situation do, in fact, feel relief, when something prevents that situation from coming to pass. That isn't to say that they don't also feel immense grief and a deep sense of loss. Feelings aren't mutually exclusive.
And since, in your own words, you and DH did have to work through your feelings of resentment for him not letting you have a baby when you were ready, I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe that there might not have been some sort of resentment on his part had you forced him to have a child when he wasn't ready.

And yes, you have to consider the wife's point of view as well as the husband's. But as many people on this board will tell you, there are some situations where compromise isn't really possible (and having/trying for a kid today really is a yes or no situation), so the more conservative answer has to be the one chosen. (This is especially common in questions about raising children. From a recent post about letting a kid travel, lots of people said they had an agreement with their spouse that if one said yes to something and the other said no, they'd go with the no.)

Having a child isn't always keeping up with the Jones's but in your case "I can't tell you how much it hurt to see all my friends having babies and me feeling held back by my DH." Your friends were the Jones's who got to do what you wanted to do. You were mad at DH because he didn't want to do what they were doing. That's pretty much my definition of keeping up with the Jones's (even if there is more emotional reasoning behind it).

And I think that you need to realize that "more emotional" about an issue doesn't equal "more right" or "more deserving". No matter how emotional cawiau's wife is about the issue, if he his emotions run counter to hers, they still need to be taken in to account.
But never did I advocate that he "shoot her down" nor do I think he shot her down in his description of the conversation. He played Devil's Advocate (which I also agree isn't the smartest of moves) but mostly let her talk herself out of it.
People who honestly aren't emotional about the issue (and my DH is one) don't make up excuses about why things can't happen. They say things along the likes of "X doesn't work for me, but other than that, the decision is yours"
cawiau obviously doesn't feel that way. So he needs to sit down with himself and clarify what he is thinking and feeling. Once he does that, he needs to communicate it to his wife. And from there, they need to move forward as a couple.

Again, I'm not trying to be mean to you. But I have to strongly disagree with your argument of "if she cries, she wins" when it comes to starting a family.

But perhaps I need to paraphrase Lena here. This is just my opinion. I've been known to be wrong. And goodness knows my marriage dynamic is different from the marriage dynamic of most of my friends, so I really don't mean to sound judgemental anyone else's marriage just because it's different from mine. But I'm also not going to be silent when I see something that strikes me as really bad advice when it concerns the lives of innocent creatures.

[Frugal Nurse]

Jul 8, 2011 16:06:13 GMT -5 Formerly SK said:

Jul 8, 2011 15:45:59 GMT -5 Frugal Nurse said:

These situations wouldn't happen, because I didn't marry a complete jerk. I married a responsible, loving man who would not abandon me or feel "relief" at the death of his child (really, there are men that would be "relieved" that their unborn kid's heart stopped beating? really?)

Ummmm....there are lots of people who feel relieved after miscarriages. Heck, there are LOTS of people who get abortions. An unwanted pregnancy can make life really difficult for people - being happy that an unwanted pregnancy ended is perfectly normal if you didn't want to be a parent in the first place.

Personally, I've never had an abortion and I probably wouldn't. But, if I were to accidentally get preggo now (DH had a vasectomy after DC#2 so it's unlikely) I would argue with all my heart to give the baby away to a loving couple. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to be a parent. In fact, I'd argue it is better to be honest about it and do something about it than to have the child and neglect it because you aren't cut out to make all the sacrifices parenting entails. We know several fantastic couples who cannot have children. It would give me so much joy to give them a baby.

We will have to respectfully "agree to disagree". I cannot fathom how a human being can feel relief at the death of their perfectly healthy unborn child, even when that child might not have been wanted. I can understand giving a kid up for adoption, my parents adopted my older brother, but it just seems un-human to me to delight in the death of anyone, especially one's own child.

I realize there are people out there who see things differently than I do, they aren't going to convince me that they are right, just as I won't convince them that I am right. It is just one of those topics that gets into an unending argument.

[thyme4change]

Casey Anthony was so happy she partied every night at a different club.













Too soon?

[sarcasticgirl]

Jul 8, 2011 16:21:19 GMT -5 Frugal Nurse said:

Jul 8, 2011 16:06:13 GMT -5 Formerly SK said:

Ummmm....there are lots of people who feel relieved after miscarriages. Heck, there are LOTS of people who get abortions. An unwanted pregnancy can make life really difficult for people - being happy that an unwanted pregnancy ended is perfectly normal if you didn't want to be a parent in the first place.

Personally, I've never had an abortion and I probably wouldn't. But, if I were to accidentally get preggo now (DH had a vasectomy after DC#2 so it's unlikely) I would argue with all my heart to give the baby away to a loving couple. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to be a parent. In fact, I'd argue it is better to be honest about it and do something about it than to have the child and neglect it because you aren't cut out to make all the sacrifices parenting entails. We know several fantastic couples who cannot have children. It would give me so much joy to give them a baby.

We will have to respectfully "agree to disagree". I cannot fathom how a human being can feel relief at the death of their perfectly healthy unborn child, even when that child might not have been wanted. I can understand giving a kid up for adoption, my parents adopted my older brother, but it just seems un-human to me to delight in the death of anyone, especially one's own child.

I realize there are people out there who see things differently than I do, they aren't going to convince me that they are right, just as I won't convince them that I am right. It is just one of those topics that gets into an unending argument.

It happens... my co-worker got preggers just as her DH was being deployed for 18 months. She ended up miscarrying during her first tri-mester and admitted to me that she felt awful for feeling this way but she felt relieved. She simply wasn't ready to be a mother, especially with DH overseas. She told me because she know i'd understand and not judge her, and she's 100% right.

also, "delight in" and "be relieved by" are two COMPLETELY different things.

[Frugal Nurse]

Shannedoah:

I never said “if she cries, she wins”. I said he needs to look at her side of things too, instead of making up his mind and using the opinions on this board to support his being “right”. Nobody but he and his wife have the right to decide if and when they have kids, and it would be unfair to her for him to use the already biased opinions of his wife against her. She deserves a little more respect than she seems to get here. Having kids is more than just a financial decision. It if were financial, nobody would ever have kids, because they are expensive.
As far as watching all my friends get pregnant and have children when I couldn’t, it wasn’t a keeping up with the joneses thing. It was a constant reminder that I wasn’t pregnant, wasn’t a mother, wasn’t fulfilling my dreams. Nothing to do with being jealous over what they had, just a reminder of what I didn’t have. Kind of like being single and an all of your friends are getting engaged. You don’t desire to also be engaged because you want their husbands, but because you also want that emotional fulfillment.
As for my DH, I have no reason to doubt that his reasons were anything other than exactly what he stated. There was a long time when we would go round and round with the same “I want kids”/ “we can’t afford them” argument. It would get emotional and we would have to just put the topic on hold, because we weren’t getting anywhere. When I finally stopped being emotional in my approach, and gave DH some cold, hard figures on costs, income, etc., he agreed that we could afford it and we started trying.

[Frugal Nurse]

Jul 8, 2011 16:24:25 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Casey Anthony was so happy she partied every night at a different club.

Too soon?

I think the general public opinion of Casey Anthony is also that she is a monster.

[Frugal Nurse]

also, "delight in" and "be relieved by" are two COMPLETELY different things.

Relief is a positive emotion. I just can't fathom feeling any positive emotion about losing a child. That's just my opinion though, based on my very personal experiences.

[raeoflyte]

I've told DH that if he hadn't been ready for kids when my hormones when nuts that it would have been the end of our relationship. I'm a complete hypocrite, because he wanted to start when we were 18 and I said hell no. But it is, what it is. Nothing could have stopped me at that point, even if it meant having and raising a baby 100% on my own.

Were we financially ready? Not in the slightest. But living for something more important than ourselves is what made us grow up and screw our heads on straight. I'm can't say if that would have happened if we started at 20, but I knew as soon as I had ds that if I could go back in time I would have started 10 years earlier.

[sarcasticgirl]

is it not common place to have a nice sit-down conversation with your sig. other BEFORE you get married and discuss what you want and when you want it regarding kids?

that's what DH and I did... i figured, that's just what reasonable adults do.

[zibazinski]

A fair amount of miscarriages are caused by something being wrong with the fetus. Not ALL fetuses should be brought to term. Natures way of dealing with it. I lost 2 and although I felt sad, I also felt relieved because no way was I ready to handle a special needs child.

[sarcasticgirl]

Jul 8, 2011 16:39:09 GMT -5 Frugal Nurse said:

also, "delight in" and "be relieved by" are two COMPLETELY different things.

Relief is a positive emotion. I just can't fathom feeling any positive emotion about losing a child. That's just my opinion though, based on my very personal experiences.

i often feel relieved, but am not "delighted". in my range of emotions, they are NOT the same thing.

i understand that you "can't fathom" it... but that doesn't mean other people don't feel that way.

i, personally, can't fathom having some internal need to procreate and getting all emotional about it... but clearly just because i can't fathom it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen to other people.

[Frugal Nurse]

Jul 8, 2011 16:45:27 GMT -5 sarcasticgirl said:

Jul 8, 2011 16:39:09 GMT -5 Frugal Nurse said:

also, "delight in" and "be relieved by" are two COMPLETELY different things.

Relief is a positive emotion. I just can't fathom feeling any positive emotion about losing a child. That's just my opinion though, based on my very personal experiences.

i often feel relieved, but am not "delighted". in my range of emotions, they are NOT the same thing.

i understand that you "can't fathom" it... but that doesn't mean other people don't feel that way.

i, personally, can't fathom having some internal need to procreate and getting all emotional about it... but clearly just because i can't fathom it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen to other people.

So, relief is a negative emotion for you? Is that what you're saying?

Again, I have already said that I understand some people may feel differently. Our life experiences are all unique and shape the way we feel about everything, including starting a family. Good for you that you don't want kids. I hope that you never have to lose one. Until you've walked in my shoes, you won't understand. just as I won't understand your side of things until I've walked in your shoes. Nothing wrong with that.

[shanendoah]

Frugalnurse: You know what, I think I'm just going to have to say my interpretation of what you wrote and what you believe you meant are at odds.
While we are both women who are ready to start families, we obviously have very different emotional responses to this issue. Which is fine. Its what makes the world go round.
But, if I keep responding line by line, I'm going to run the risk as coming off as a bitch (which I can be, but I'm not trying to be here) and possibly upsetting you, which is very much not my intention.

So, let's agree that your advice to cawiau (if I'm reading it right) is that if it is that much more emotionally important to his wife than it is to him, then he should seriously consider going along with her wishes.
And on other issues, I would completely agree with you. The person to whom it is more emotionally important gets the final say. But I can't go along with that for kittens, puppies, and children.
So, my advice to him is, if you are even slightly emotionally not ready for this, tell your wife and get both of you on the same page.
I also agree with the person who said set a specific date to start trying if you really just want to wait another couple years, or set one to revisit the topic if you're honestly emotionally uncertain.

[thyme4change]

frugal - I had a good number of friends that had problems conceiving children, with a variety of outcomes. I believe you are a little emotional about this issue. I do agree that Cawiau doesn't get to make a one-sided decision just as his wife does not get to make a one-sided decision. But I also see Cawaiu posting this because what he wants and what he wants to want aren't exactly the same.

[Frugal Nurse]

Jul 8, 2011 16:41:14 GMT -5 sarcasticgirl said:

is it not common place to have a nice sit-down conversation with your sig. other BEFORE you get married and discuss what you want and when you want it regarding kids?

that's what DH and I did... i figured, that's just what reasonable adults do.

This probably depends on how old you are when you get married. DH and I moved in together at 19, married at 21. At that point, we both agreed to having kids some day, and even had a time frame in mind of when "someday" should be, but at that age, it seemed like a lifetime away. I wasn't emotional about it then because I didn't care that much. If DH had wanted them then, I would have been fine with it, but it didn't hurt me not to have them either. It came to a point, though, that baby fever came over me in a big way, and that is when it became an issue.

[sarcasticgirl]

Jul 8, 2011 16:50:48 GMT -5 Frugal Nurse said:

Jul 8, 2011 16:45:27 GMT -5 sarcasticgirl said:

i often feel relieved, but am not "delighted". in my range of emotions, they are NOT the same thing.

i understand that you "can't fathom" it... but that doesn't mean other people don't feel that way.

i, personally, can't fathom having some internal need to procreate and getting all emotional about it... but clearly just because i can't fathom it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen to other people.

So, relief is a negative emotion for you? Is that what you're saying?

Again, I have already said that I understand some people may feel differently. Our life experiences are all unique and shape the way we feel about everything, including starting a family. Good for you that you don't want kids. I hope that you never have to lose one. Until you've walked in my shoes, you won't understand. just as I won't understand your side of things until I've walked in your shoes. Nothing wrong with that.

clearly this is a concept you cannot understand in this context. relief isn't a negative emotion, but it doesn't necessarily mean DELIGHT. In cases such as these, i know many people feel relief in conjunction with other negative emotions.

there are times in my life where i feel a sense of relief, but am not like "oh hey everyone i am SO FREAKING DELIGHTED!!!!"

i have watched a family member fight a loosing battle with cancer and be miserably sick and in pain... when they passed, i felt a sense of relief, because they are no longer hurting. was i delighted? ABSO-FREAKING-LUTELY NOT!

obviously this is not the same as a miscarriage, but it is an instance in which RELIEF IS NOT DELIGHT that I think you would be able to understand, since it's not baby related.