The Founding Fathers, Unzipped

[Virgil Showlion]

I resent religious Conservative trying to sanitize/whitewash our history! Our students are already dumb enough.

Here's an honest question. Suppose you had a machine that could magically repeal one of the two following changes:

• Elimination of "sex and gender as social constructs", Thomas Jefferson, SOCAS interpretation; addition of "constitutional republic", John Calvin; to the Texas curriculum.
• Addition of "gay history" to the California curriculum.

Which one would you repeal?

From the Washington Examiner:

Today, in states across the nation, educational curriculum is treated as an exercise in interest group politics. Most high school age students can identify the defining characteristics of twentieth century social progress movements, but they could not identify the reasons why Abraham Lincoln saw the union as a contract which could not be broken at will. According to one recent Rasmussen Poll, 73% of graduating high school seniors in 2008 were able to identify at least one important figures of the civil rights movements of the 1960’s, but less than a third of that population could name a single leader on either side of the Civil War or cite one of the major reasons for the United States’ original dissolution of our union with Great Britain. When such interest group politics leads us to such a state of obvious historical ignorance, then that is most definitely a bridge too far, and it becomes a clarion call for change in a system that has stopped responding to the very people that system claims to serve.

[pig]

Addition of "gay history" to the California curriculum.

Did they really do this? That's absurd. By making a separate history for gay people it only encourages the thought they they different than straight people. Obviously it was done to garner votes.

[Deleted]

While you might be capable of applying that principle to the founding fathers snerd... too often today we pass by equally flawed individuals in some kind of absurd quest for a weirdly defined 'perfection' ...

If you haven't got 'the charisma', if you are too short, not attractive, have a private sexual life that includes more than the missionary position with the woman to whom you are married... etc. Then you are somehow not fit to set forth any principles...

Its the same everywhere though... we try and try to sanatize... and only end up with more ambiguity, dissconect and chaos...

I wonder how much innovation we miss... not just by trying to pass impossible 'public standards of morality'... but by medicating all the potential Einsteins, Fords, Churchills, Ansel Adams, etc, etc, etc. for generations....

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jul 1, 2011 0:58:04 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

I resent religious Conservative trying to sanitize/whitewash our history! Our students are already dumb enough.

In the words of Thomas Jefferson, “If a nation expects to be ignorant and free… it expects what never was and never will be.”

Forgetting Our Forefathers: How America's Top Universities Are Neglecting Our Past

www.unc.edu/cr/features/forgetting-our-forefathers.html

U.S. Students Ignorant of History; Will Repeat Mistakes of Past

www.thenewamerican.com/opinion/selwyn-duke/7885-us-students-ignorant-of-history-will-repeat-mistakes-of-past

Lak, I know you're never gonna understand this- but THE reason that I am opposed to big government is that it cannot be managed or controlled once unleashed.

If we didn't have government run schools, and if text books weren't a disjointed patchwork of material that resulted from a committee vote- you wouldn't be seeing this. Ironically, these folks are just big government at its finest. I mean here you have people wanting so badly to espouse their ostensibly 'conservative' viewpoints-- and they're using the sledgehammer of political power to do it.

This is the crux of the issue Lak- and you've got to come to terms with it. You like things like ObamaCare as long as YOUR people are on the death panels. This is just a glimpse of what's possible once government is given power.

You're just so used to the abuse of power being on the far left, and being in favor of things you approve of, that this seems horrible to you.

But you fail to realize that the truly horrible thing is a text book editing committee of ANY stripe. Now, I can see this as a conservative. The question is-- could you see it if the ideology was reversed?

I suspect you could not.

[privateinvestor]

Jul 1, 2011 8:06:37 GMT -5 @pig said:

Addition of "gay history" to the California curriculum.

Did they really do this? That's absurd. By making a separate history for gay people it only encourages the thought they they different than straight people. Obviously it was done to garner votes.

It is fact out here in northern Ca but not sure about our neighbors to the south...some PTA groups opposed this but I think they lost in my school district in Santa Clara County.. My understanding is this "Gay" & "Hispanic" history in our schools is due to these groups having such strong lobbies in Sacramento CA and members of the legislature who belong to both groups as well.. The Speaker of the CA Assembly is an openly gay man who pushed his agenda as soon as he was sworn in a few months ago in Sacremento, CA..

[Deleted]

At least you do have some influence over our government Paul. When CORPORATIONS are given the power... the people lose theirs...

[formerexpat]

I resent religious Conservative trying to sanitize/whitewash our history! Our students are already dumb enough.

In the words of Thomas Jefferson, “If a nation expects to be ignorant and free… it expects what never was and never will be.”

Forgetting Our Forefathers: How America's Top Universities Are Neglecting Our Past

www.unc.edu/cr/features/forgetting-our-forefathers.html

U.S. Students Ignorant of History; Will Repeat Mistakes of Past

www.thenewamerican.com/opinion/se....istakes-of-past

The education system as a whole, both K-12 & at the university level is decidedly liberal. How exactly are conservatives the only one whitewashing our history?

Most people on these boards resent stupid comments suggesting one side is responsible for the dumbing down of our students.

[formerexpat]

When CORPORATIONS are given the power... the people lose theirs...

Same can be said about government but to a greater degree. If I don't like the deferred annuity with my insurance company, I'm free to leave that company. I'm not as fortunate with the government and SS. Even worse is the government penalizes me for being more successful than my neighbor and taxes my SS [likely to be means tested too in the future].

There are regulations in place that would put an insurance company out of business if it operated in this manner [via the NAIC].

How are corporations given power when the consumer has [in theory] the choice to do business with a corporation? There are many people here that don't like Walmart and decide not to shop there.

If you mean corporations given power BY THE GOVERNMENT, then I agree that is wrong...however, that only shows that we need less government in our lives, including in the capitalist markets [read, less government does not mean completely removing sensible regulations].

[Deleted]

because its 'In Theory'...

[formerexpat]

because its 'In Theory'...

Because government involvement [or the wrong regulations] creates unfair advantages for certain companies and gives consumers little options.

But, in the case of Walmart, are you saying you as the consumer don't have a choice of whether to go to Walmart or not? I hadn't read the story of people being forced to shop at Walmart.

I don't have many options for my energy provider, for example. Being that you're in PA, I suspect your options are limited as well. A gross example of government involvement.

Amtrak - government

etc, etc, etc.

The problem still comes back to government stiffling competition and eliminating the ability of consumers, in some industries to have more choices. In other areas, we have a wonderful model of determining who fails and succeeds - like the restaurant industry, for example.

[floridayankee]

Jun 30, 2011 22:03:47 GMT -5 cme1201 said:

the funny thing is the article starts out with the assumption that people would not vote for a Thomas Jefferson type is preposterous.

I believe the assumption is correct, but the reasoning is wrong. In fact, I doubt that many of our early presidents would be elected today for one simple reason...lack of television appeal. Visual appeal was not as much of an issue back.