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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 3, 2011 17:14:11 GMT -5
Ok I will stop for now, maybe more later....but I would like to here a rational counterpoint if I am wrong on any of the above Ok I gave you my best shot
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jul 3, 2011 17:49:26 GMT -5
glad to see another tackled em..some of those , as you agreed , were non issues...but important thing..just vote..and don't stop, your choice doesn't get in..then try, try again, the next time...
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Tigerwife3
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Post by Tigerwife3 on Jul 3, 2011 18:16:50 GMT -5
robbase-why did you not vote in the 2000, 2004, and 2008 national elections?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 4, 2011 0:35:12 GMT -5
We are dems and we will vote for Obama again. And yes we are better off then we were in 2009 and not we don't approve of everything he has done, but he has tried to accomplish a lot and can't. He has been fought every step of the way on anything he has tried to do. The other party is simply a party of no. And why working people would hold up for a party like the reps is beyond me, they certainly are not worrying about represting you. And the only candidates they are running would be your worst nightmares as the next pres. I wish he could get unemployment solved but not going to happen without jobs and also jobs with good pay. The repubs are blathering but I still remember the last one we had and God help us if we get another like him. of the ones that are currently seeking the office, several of them are arguably worse.
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Post by robbase on Jul 4, 2011 3:57:33 GMT -5
djlungrot interesting view points, some points I see we will agree to disagree, but some clarity perhaps on some other points....
1) you don't see an issue with approving a massive Health Care bill (talking about the shear number of pages in the bill) without reading it?? And the fact the top Dem at the time (Pelosi) saying that "we have to pass it so that we know what is in it?" really? you don't see any issue with that?
2) you don't see an issue with slamming a bill (Arizona immigration bill) if you have not actually read it? we are talking about 10 pages here? I can see slamming it or disagreeing with it after you read it, but really? You don't see an issue with slamming something you have not read?
4) On GITMO- my point is why can't he admit "I over reached, or I was wrong or here is what changed or whatever?" I mean there was big pomp and circumstance on "we will close gitmo" and then.....NOTHING, I mean at least address it maybe??
6) Really? so there is no issue if a Black Panther guy is outside a voting station waving a weapon around intimidating voters during an election? I wonder if the same would hold true if a radical white group member was doing the same thing?
7) You don't address the main point, similar to # 4, he made big pomp and circumstance that we will have the KSM trial in NY civil court, and then, umm on second thought maybe not-- that's my issue- just admit you were wrong or explain what changed and whatever and move out, don't just ignore this BIG change and hope the limited attention span of Americans will over look this
8) Here is Gibbs making fun of Sarah Palin
9) You know what I was referring to, the Democratic controlled Congress failed to approve a budget back in late 2009 as they were supposed to, this resulted in numerous CRAs after they lost the Nov elections
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jul 4, 2011 10:01:05 GMT -5
We are dems and we will vote for Obama again. And yes we are better off then we were in 2009 and not we don't approve of everything he has done, but he has tried to accomplish a lot and can't. He has been fought every step of the way on anything he has tried to do. The other party is simply a party of no. And why working people would hold up for a party like the reps is beyond me, they certainly are not worrying about represting you. And the only candidates they are running would be your worst nightmares as the next pres. I wish he could get unemployment solved but not going to happen without jobs and also jobs with good pay. The repubs are blathering but I still remember the last one we had and God help us if we get another like him. Short to the point.[Oh if I could only learn to post like that.[sigh]] says it all... "He has been fought every step of the way on anything he has tried to do. The other party is simply a party of no." it is true there..and I may be naive but I feel they could have had a influence with this President, he knows their help would be needed, they would still be able to be a loyal opposition and get their political points across for the next election, yet also have a big influence on legislation. Jobs, unemeployment , they are the issue and I feel we are now at a point in our history where the old noerm for unemployment will have to be changed, no longer a 4/5 % considered as acceptable..possible 7/8 % will be the norm, but it will take a few elections before the populace accept that figure and don't hold the sitting POTUS responsible if it isn't lower, to the detriment to the sitting POTUS. There was a report where American Business over all, was back to the profitability of before the collapse , and was doing it with 7 million less workers..they just don't need as many people basically..so how do you handle that? Mistakes have been made , but who hasn't made mistakes and he has learned a lot, I think another term would be the best thing for the country..not as tramatic with new progrms, tweaking of old ones, health care yes..as it comes on line in 2014...investments for research and developement for the 21st century industrys..our disengagements in foreign adventures..and helping to get jobs back , industry moving again.. As I have said, I am happy with our current POTUS and his Kids are cute, like to see how they develope, [[LOL} joshing there.. PS " To me, there is absolutly no reason NOT to vote..none. To many have paid the price to allow you that right, you owe THEM, and so far , we have never had TWO candidate put up who are so abhorrant , that a choice can't be made , even if they are not completly to ones likeing. The way to look at it..if you feel they do not represent what YOU feel would be the proper leader, to step back and say possible I AM the one who is wrong here..what I want in a leader just might not be practicle in our Society, possible I have it WRONG..to me, absolute no reason not to pick a candidate..no reason to sit out a election..and there is no way I can be convinced differently.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 4, 2011 10:12:14 GMT -5
I an not going to offer a rational counterpoint as alll decisions now seem to made on non-rational views - both sides rep and dem. First - vote, vote, vote. It appears to me that many don't vote because it does not matter - you could roll in a truck load of excusses not to vote and it would be legit - except our vote matters as much as non-voting matters - both send a message. Vote for whoever you want - tell your friends that you will not entertain any political conversation with anyone who does not or will not vote. As ugly as it all is, is not an excuse! Many have died before you and, possibly next to you for the cause of freedom - do not not vote - do not be swayed by fearmongering - as Ben Franklin said those that give up rights for a little security deserve neither. I am a lefty/democrat/whatever - If I see someone supporting privalege, monopoly, fearmongering, etc. - I will not vote for that person no matter how distastefull the alternative is. Base your vote on those that support the Constitution, Equality, Fight Tyranny in all its forms - vote the good fight and not the red herrings. I voted for Obama because I saw the other side voting for special privalege. I have been disapointed and my choices of the vote that I will cast is equal to eating the worst food in my life. You have a responsibility to vote - I don't care who - just vote. I disagree. There are reasons NOT to vote. In fact, telling people to vote just to vote is bad for the country. If someone doens't have the wherewithall to know or even care who their elected officials are going to be, then maybe they shouldn't vote. As for me, i have done a "non vote" as a protest. I have decided i am no longer going to vote for someone i don't believe in. I am not going to vote for the lesser of two evils. And, until more people start doing so, we are going to continue to get candidates who don' t deserve and haven't earned our vote. If they dont' earn my vote, they dont' get it. And, if the consequence is that the other party wins for a time, so be it. It is preferable to go down in flames voting for what is right than just playing more politics. " I WAS ANTI-OBAMA WAY BEFORE IT WAS COOL" P.I. (Unhappy Democrat)
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 4, 2011 11:10:01 GMT -5
djlungrot interesting view points, some points I see we will agree to disagree, but some clarity perhaps on some other points.... 1) you don't see an issue with approving a massive Health Care bill (talking about the shear number of pages in the bill) without reading it?? And the fact the top Dem at the time (Pelosi) saying that "we have to pass it so that we know what is in it?" really? you don't see any issue with that? this is a red herring. there were six months of debate on this damn things, more hearings than i can remember, tons of input from both sides. in fact, i would say that the "compromise" resembled the Gingrich plan way more than it did Obama's conception. and YES, i meant Gingrich.2) you don't see an issue with slamming a bill (Arizona immigration bill) if you have not actually read it? we are talking about 10 pages here? I can see slamming it or disagreeing with it after you read it, but really? You don't see an issue with slamming something you have not read? are all your posts going to say the same thing? again, i don't think it is true that nobody read it. if you mean Obama not reading it, i don't read stuff either. i have my administrative assistant read it, and then she highlights the captions that are relevant to me, so that i don't have to spend the time combing through it. my time is too valuable for that. i would hope that Obama would think as much of his time.4) On GITMO- my point is why can't he admit "I over reached, or I was wrong or here is what changed or whatever?" I mean there was big pomp and circumstance on "we will close gitmo" and then.....NOTHING, I mean at least address it maybe?? i am not in the business of making excuses for Obama. sorry to disappoint you.6) Really? so there is no issue if a Black Panther guy is outside a voting station waving a weapon around intimidating voters during an election? I wonder if the same would hold true if a radical white group member was doing the same thing? that story was so overblown it was ridiculous. there are minor incidents of intimidation in every election. this was no exception. it does not require calling in the feds to deal with it.7) You don't address the main point, similar to # 4, he made big pomp and circumstance that we will have the KSM trial in NY civil court, and then, umm on second thought maybe not-- that's my issue- just admit you were wrong or explain what changed and whatever and move out, don't just ignore this BIG change and hope the limited attention span of Americans will over look this i thought i did address it: i think it is inexcusible for him to not follow through on it. what do you want me to say? i already said that i firmly disagree with how it was handled.8) Here is Gibbs making fun of Sarah Palin Gibbs is trying to be funny there, but i don't think it is funny to make fun of a person's shortcomings, so i am with you on this one.9) You know what I was referring to, the Democratic controlled Congress failed to approve a budget back in late 2009 as they were supposed to, this resulted in numerous CRAs after they lost the Nov elections no, i really don't know what you are talking about. www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/02/AR2009040203473.html
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