Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 12:23:00 GMT -5
And because I think it is a waste and stupid idea that will add another layer of government does not mean I want every to be on welfare,as you implied in an earlier post. Adois. I didn't imply anywhere that you wanted everyone on welfare. I said that you and cereb and oped will find any excuse as to why it's a bad plan because of an infinite number of "If/Then...." scenarios. I had nothing to do with bringing up turning to prostitution or burglary. Simple fact: Most drug addicts will do these things anyway to get their next fix regardless of welfare situation.
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Post by bubblyandblue on Jun 17, 2011 12:27:55 GMT -5
"Why? Your own genetics are barely yours. Look it up." Well, as an american, it worries me that such an intrusion has been met with such resignation.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jun 17, 2011 12:28:17 GMT -5
You didn't say "You're right. Some people on here...yourself included, along with oped and others will find any excuse you can to keep people on the government dole."? I think it is a stupid plan. And your suggestion it would be a simple thing for current employees to verify scripts is naive. Welfare case loads are overwhelming as it is.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 12:30:07 GMT -5
You didn't say "You're right. Some people on here...yourself included, along with oped and others will find any excuse you can to keep people on the government dole."? Keeping people on the government dole and "EVERYBODY" are two highly different things. You know that right? Not EVERYBODY is currently on welfare. Ah.....reading comprehension.....it's a great thing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 12:31:24 GMT -5
"Why? Your own genetics are barely yours. Look it up." Well, as an american, it worries me that such an intrusion has been met with such resignation. So, you're out on a daily basis protesting the many things that the Federal government does that would be considered intrusive? Patriot Act, new FBI powers?
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jun 17, 2011 12:31:32 GMT -5
I see. Since all you are able to come up with is some lame ass attempt at what you would call an insult instead of discussing the matter at hand, it would appear sir that the weak minded individual would be you. Glad I could help you out with that. Any further reality testing on your "superior intellect" required for today? I'm not trying to insult you or hurt your feelings. However, the fact that you take it as such says far more about you than it does me. Let me educate you. A comment directed at an individual insinuating that they are "weak minded" is an insult on any planet. Your failure to recognize this actually says far more about you than the initial insult says. What it says is that this is commonplace exchange in your conversational skills and that you no longer recognize it's impact. This is one of the hallmarks of a bully. Am I offended by this? No, not at all. I would only be offended if there were a grain of truth to your statement that I was weak minded and if you were someone who has an opinion which I value. I don't know enough about you for that to have happened as of yet, but it's not looking too promising thus far. I am anything but weak minded. However, one of the things in life I happen to enjoy, a little guilty pleasure if you will, is pointing it out to people when they exhibit such behaviors, particularly when they are unwarranted and being employed as a tactic to win an argument. Another little guilty pleasure...putting a bully in their place is almost as good as sex. Almost.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jun 17, 2011 12:32:46 GMT -5
I am through here.Tex is running in circles and resorting to insults.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 12:35:00 GMT -5
I think it is a stupid plan. And your suggestion it would be a simple thing for current employees to verify scripts is naive. Welfare case loads are overwhelming as it is. I've said that the Perry ultrasound plan was stupid. Just because we don't agree with something doesn't make it illegal or wrong. That's the fun part of opinions and free thought. It would be simple in that it COULD be done. Obviously, re-training and potentially more people would have to be hired or forms could be simplified and the process streamlined to make it easier.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 12:36:24 GMT -5
I am through here.Tex is running in circles and resorting to insults. What is with lefties and their "Insults" excuse? Grow up.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 12:37:21 GMT -5
A few things..adults without children CAN get benefits. POINT- I knew a crackhead that was getting $235 a month in food stamps and medical, single, no kids.. I seriously doubt he would apply if he knew he had to be drug tested. I'm all for those people staying home. Those kind of people also know where the free food is around town at churches, etc. They will not starve. POINT-- they will have to do follicle tests to stop drug addicts, as hard drugs clear pee in 3 days.. also you can buy fake clean pee at any head shop, and it works. POINT- I've been tested many times in my cab jobs. It is routine for ANYTHING that happens. They ask you at the testing center what prescriptions you are on, so that is a non-issue. POINT-- people that will commit crimes will commit crimes, whether or not they get gov't enabling.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jun 17, 2011 12:38:30 GMT -5
I am through here.Tex is running in circles and resorting to insults. True.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 12:39:34 GMT -5
I'm not trying to insult you or hurt your feelings. However, the fact that you take it as such says far more about you than it does me. Let me educate you. A comment directed at an individual insinuating that they are "weak minded" is an insult on any planet. Your failure to recognize this actually says far more about you than the initial insult says. What it says is that this is commonplace exchange in your conversational skills and that you no longer recognize it's impact. This is one of the hallmarks of a bully. Am I offended by this? No, not at all. I would only be offended if there were a grain of truth to your statement that I was weak minded and if you were someone who has an opinion which I value. I don't know enough about you for that to have happened as of yet, but it's not looking too promising thus far. I am anything but weak minded. However, one of the things in life I happen to enjoy, a little guilty pleasure if you will, is pointing it out to people when they exhibit such behaviors, particularly when they are unwarranted and being employed as a tactic to win an argument. Another little guilty pleasure...putting a bully in their place is almost as good as sex. Almost. So you are insecure because you feel that you have to point out others (perceived) weaknesses while not being able to understand your own? Psychology 101 my friend.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 12:40:14 GMT -5
Which state are you again krickitt? I'd like to check those regs that let normal single people get $235 a month food stamps. Thanks.
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Post by bubblyandblue on Jun 17, 2011 12:40:18 GMT -5
So, you're out on a daily basis protesting the many things that the Federal government does that would be considered intrusive? Patriot Act, new FBI powers? Not on a daily basis - I am self employed and work as much as I can - given the financial distress in the country I'm OK. I regularly participate in the local, state and federal level by visiting my congressmen, exchanging letters with same, meeting with local representatives and attending open meeting at the local level - I have made my views well known with my community and it's representatives publicly.
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pappyjohn99
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Post by pappyjohn99 on Jun 17, 2011 12:41:21 GMT -5
I thought there might be a privacy issue with searching someones blood without probable cause
It would be, if it was compelled. But If you show up and apply for aid, and you know that a UA will be required, there is no compulsion. You are free to withdraw your application.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 12:41:35 GMT -5
I am through here.Tex is running in circles and resorting to insults. True. By all means. Hit the IGNORE button on me. It won't be a loss for either party.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jun 17, 2011 12:41:46 GMT -5
Let me educate you. A comment directed at an individual insinuating that they are "weak minded" is an insult on any planet. Your failure to recognize this actually says far more about you than the initial insult says. What it says is that this is commonplace exchange in your conversational skills and that you no longer recognize it's impact. This is one of the hallmarks of a bully. Am I offended by this? No, not at all. I would only be offended if there were a grain of truth to your statement that I was weak minded and if you were someone who has an opinion which I value. I don't know enough about you for that to have happened as of yet, but it's not looking too promising thus far. I am anything but weak minded. However, one of the things in life I happen to enjoy, a little guilty pleasure if you will, is pointing it out to people when they exhibit such behaviors, particularly when they are unwarranted and being employed as a tactic to win an argument. Another little guilty pleasure...putting a bully in their place is almost as good as sex. Almost. So you are insecure because you feel that you have to point out others (perceived) weaknesses while not being able to understand your own? Psychology 101 my friend. Nope, not insecure at all. Quite the opposite. I didn't say I needed to point out bully tactics, I said that in certain instances, I enjoy doing it. Psychology masters and CAGS my friend. Try to keep up.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 12:43:59 GMT -5
I thought there might be a privacy issue with searching someones blood without probable causeIt would be, if it was compelled. But If you show up and apply for aid, and you know that a UA will be required, there is no compulsion. You are free to withdraw your application. This is an excellent point pappy. Good post.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 12:44:19 GMT -5
I'm in AZ, AND I don't lie.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 12:45:48 GMT -5
So you are insecure because you feel that you have to point out others (perceived) weaknesses while not being able to understand your own? Psychology 101 my friend. Nope, not insecure at all. Quite the opposite. I didn't say I needed to point out bully tactics, I said that in certain instances, I enjoy doing it. Psychology masters and CAGS my friend. Try to keep up. Oh....you changed it to I'm a bully now. Interesting. What have I done (in your mind) that is bullying? If you feel bullied or threatened then hit the REPORT button.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jun 17, 2011 12:47:21 GMT -5
I'm in AZ, AND I don't lie. There are folks out there who have been deemed permanently disabled, sometimes it is a mental illness. If their SSI and SSDI combined is low, they will qualify for SNAP benefits. If the individual isn't being served by a social services agency of some sort, the risk for drug abuse is very high.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 12:50:14 GMT -5
Able-Bodied Adults Without Dependents (ABAWD) Work Requirements ABAWD may receive only six full months of Nutrition Assistance benefits in a 36-month period. Unless they meet the ABAWD work requirements or they are exempt, ABAWD individuals over age 18 and under age 50 must meet one of the following work requirements: work (including self-employment, volunteer and in-kind work) an average of 20 hours or more per week within a time frame of 30 consecutive days; satisfactorily participate for 20 hours or more per week in one of the following programs: Workforce Investment Act; Trade Adjustment Assistance Act; Employment and Training (excluding job search or job search training), including SNA E&T. www.azdes.gov/main.aspx?menu=355&id=5218
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jun 17, 2011 12:50:53 GMT -5
Nope, not insecure at all. Quite the opposite. I didn't say I needed to point out bully tactics, I said that in certain instances, I enjoy doing it. Psychology masters and CAGS my friend. Try to keep up. Oh....you changed it to I'm a bully now. Interesting. What have I done (in your mind) that is bullying? If you feel bullied or threatened then hit the REPORT button. Reading is fundamental. I said you used a bully tactic. I certainly do not feel bullied or threatened by you. That would mean you had some sort of cosmic message board power. You have no power over me and that appears to be a fact you will have to grapple with on your own time. I will hit the ignore and or report button when and if I damn well please. Are we clear yet?
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jun 17, 2011 12:52:30 GMT -5
Able-Bodied Adults Without Dependents (ABAWD) Work Requirements ABAWD may receive only six full months of Nutrition Assistance benefits in a 36-month period. Unless they meet the ABAWD work requirements or they are exempt, ABAWD individuals over age 18 and under age 50 must meet one of the following work requirements: work (including self-employment, volunteer and in-kind work) an average of 20 hours or more per week within a time frame of 30 consecutive days; satisfactorily participate for 20 hours or more per week in one of the following programs: Workforce Investment Act; Trade Adjustment Assistance Act; Employment and Training (excluding job search or job search training), including SNA E&T. www.azdes.gov/main.aspx?menu=355&id=5218 People who have a diagnosis of severe and persist ant mental illness would be exempt.
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pappyjohn99
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The driveway needs a little work.
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Post by pappyjohn99 on Jun 17, 2011 12:53:35 GMT -5
Thank you. This is the bottom line. People that apply for aid are in no way compelled to do so. This is different from those that are required to pay. I work, and If I care to keep my job my employer requires that I submit to a UA on demand. Since I enjoy the paycheck each week that my employer provides, I do not use illegal drugs. My employer deducts taxes from the money that I earned and forwards it to the state as required by law, and the state takes my money and gives it someone that is not held to the same standard. As our fine president would say "That's not fair". I only ask that those that receive tax dollars be as accountable as I am.
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Post by bubblyandblue on Jun 17, 2011 12:54:46 GMT -5
I thought there might be a privacy issue with searching someones blood without probable cause
It would be, if it was compelled. But If you show up and apply for aid, and you know that a UA will be required, there is no compulsion. You are free to withdraw your application. This is an excellent point pappy. Good post. My only problem is when the request goes beyond a mere decision to one that is coercive or because compliance is because of duress. It's sort of like the Federal reserve asking for a huge infusion to support a private market because, if you don't, the world will disintegrate. Like when a robber puts a gun to your head and politley requests your money. -Sorry - Im a little stupid when it comes to boxing previous comments -
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 12:56:59 GMT -5
Oh....you changed it to I'm a bully now. Interesting. What have I done (in your mind) that is bullying? If you feel bullied or threatened then hit the REPORT button. Reading is fundamental. I said you used a bully tactic. I certainly do not feel bullied or threatened by you. That would mean you had some sort of cosmic message board power. You have no power over me and that appears to be a fact you will have to grapple with on your own time. I will hit the ignore button when and if I damn well please. Are we clear yet? Okay....let me rephrase my question: Which bully tactic do you think I used? I'm okay with having no power over you. I'm not a control-freak who can't handle differing opinions. Are we clear yet? That's funny that you talk about me trying to have some sort of cosmic message board power and then you (key word here) ATTEMPT to grab some perceived power over me as if you're important.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jun 17, 2011 12:57:10 GMT -5
Thank you. This is the bottom line. People that apply for aid are in no way compelled to do so. This is different from those that are required to pay. I work, and If I care to keep my job my employer requires that I submit to a UA on demand. Since I enjoy the paycheck each week that my employer provides, I do not use illegal drugs. My employer deducts taxes from the money that I earned and forwards it to the state as required by law, and the state takes my money and gives it someone that is not held to the same standard. As our fine president would say "That's not fair". I only ask that those that receive tax dollars be as accountable as I am. And you have made an excellent point. I appreciate your clear articulation on the matter. I am not exactly totally against the measure. I can simply see many, many problems with it's implementation, and I also feel that to do it across the board without cause isn't really the way to go. I feel that those who are suspected of drug use should be tested and if positive, their benefits suspended.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 12:59:43 GMT -5
I can't find the cut off eligibility levels? But to determine $ received, you take 30% of your monthly income and then subtract 200$ (for a single person) from it and then what you are left with is your benefit amount... so... if that is true, then a 235$ benefit for a single person would indicate an income of $17,400.... which is over 150% of the poverty level for a single person... ? ...
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jun 17, 2011 13:01:58 GMT -5
Reading is fundamental. I said you used a bully tactic. I certainly do not feel bullied or threatened by you. That would mean you had some sort of cosmic message board power. You have no power over me and that appears to be a fact you will have to grapple with on your own time. I will hit the ignore button when and if I damn well please. Are we clear yet? Okay....let me rephrase my question: Which bully tactic do you think I used? I'm okay with having no power over you. I'm not a control-freak who can't handle differing opinions. Are we clear yet? That's funny that you talk about me trying to have some sort of cosmic message board power and then you (key word here) ATTEMPT to grab some perceived power over me as if you're important. I have attempted no such thing. I am fully aware I have no power over you perceived or real. I asked a question. "are we clear?" is a question meaning "do you understand?" If paranoia is an issue for you, perhaps we should end this exchange. I certainly would not wish to cause you undue stress that could lead you to harm yourself or others. ;D
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