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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2011 18:13:14 GMT -5
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 17, 2011 7:30:10 GMT -5
I'm a Christian and while I disagree with the atheistic aspect of objectivism, I agree with the concept of 'enlightened self interest' (as opposed to pure selfishness- which I think is a word chosen for its shock value- especially at the time it was used). And I agree with this. I know of no scripture reference that claims that money is the root of all evil. I defy anyone to come up with a verse in the Bible that proclaims this.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 17, 2011 7:30:43 GMT -5
Oh, and  for the post. Good one. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 10:05:32 GMT -5
I've never had a LOT of money, but I always earned an honest living and made my own way until this temporary setback I am in right now. I never resented that I made my money working on another man's idea or plan, either. I've always been grateful that a person with more than me provided ME with the means to sell my own skills to another in exchange for their money, which I then distribute to others for services or goods that enable them to exchange that money with others..and on down the line.
At the end of a good day in the cab I could go home with a couple hundred $$$$, that I worked hard to earn, and it feels good to have a pocket full of money. That it was only enough to meet my needs with no luxuries didn't really bother me, because I made choices in my life that made that the best I could do, and I don't blame others for that either. Did I resent the cab company if I only made $150 all day, had to give $30 for gas, $103 for the cab?? No-- my contract was to lease a cab for a set amount of money, and they need that money to stay in business so I can have the cab to get in the next day and go try again to make the $200 for myself. That is the way it works. You can stay or you can go, but you can't whine to the company because they fulfilled their contract and you had a bad day. Not their problem. That's business.
There is nothing bad about money, and if someone has a LOT of money, that they earned with their own talents and work-- good for them. It's THEIR money, and no one has the right to seize that money by force. It doesn't work. Look what happened in Atlas Shrugged. Look what is happening now.
People like me that work for the people with the big money are having a hard time earning money now. And the people at the very bottom that refuse to work at all, and hate the people that do, who are actually the ones that are keeping them alive-- they are in the worst shape of all, because they know no other way to exist than to wait for the rich man's money to come to them.
This attack on wealth does not work. Never has, never will. All it does is stop the flow of money, and without the flow of money society comes to a halt.
The people fighting to hold on to their money now are fighting for the preservation of what makes this country work, and the ones that call them names and judge them are putting us on a path to ruin. Actually, we are well on our way, living on false wealth that doesn't belong to us, while the production of our own goods, that WE create and earn MONEY creating, is grinding to a halt.
I don't have a college education, but I am smart enough to see that I can't drive a cab if the company I lease my cab from is put out of business by rules, regulations, and laws really intended to seize their money and give it to others that would never in a million years drive one of their cabs or in any other way provide a mutually beneficial relationship with that cab company.
It's happening all over the place, and just like in Atlas Shrugged, the ones with the most ability, creativity, the most MONEY, are headed for a valley somewhere to use their talents to do their work and make their money in peace. What will the looters do when there is nothing left but the moochers and guns?? We need to put a stop to the looting right now, because it seems to me we are well on our way to that point.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 10:20:38 GMT -5
The attack on wealth has worked lots of times... its called revolution .... and it sure as hell works. Show me one powerful rich aristocracy today which is not under attack by its poor? Show me one powerful rich aristocracy that has survived...
Atlas shrugged ... is a fairy tale...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 10:22:14 GMT -5
Redistribution ALWAYS occurs. It is a natural phenomenon that i guess i shouldn't expect people to who don't believe in evolution and systems to understand...
It can occur peaceably... or through violence... but it will always occur...
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Jun 17, 2011 10:24:47 GMT -5
The attack on wealth has worked lots of times... its called revolution .... and it sure as hell works. Show me one powerful rich aristocracy today which is not under attack by its poor? Show me one powerful rich aristocracy that has survived...
Well Greece is near revolution state.... and bankrupt, their bonds are junk status.
Atlas shrugged ... is a fairy tale...
The plot in Atlas Shrugged is being played out right now in the US. Off shoring of jobs and industries, companies and jobs moving out of high tax states, wealthy individuals also moving out of high tax states. Ayn Rand was a prophet.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 10:26:59 GMT -5
The plot is NOT being played out here in the US. lol... you must not have read very carefully....
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Jun 17, 2011 10:30:04 GMT -5
The plot is NOT being played out here in the US. lol... you must not have read very carefully....
The plot is the producers(ie: entrepenuers, industry) go on strike.
The country is turned into chas and decay.
Everything going on today is close to Atlas Shrugged. Job losses, industry moving out of the country and high tax states, etc.
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wyouser
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Post by wyouser on Jun 17, 2011 10:32:18 GMT -5
The ancient Spartans had an interesting take on the concept of "money" (Interesting looking back given the current financial crisis in Greece), Money was seen as an evil that corrupted citizens so they developed a currency of iron bars that were too heavy to carry. The male population was supposed to devote itself to the service of the state by being a soldier. It was felt money was too distracting a concept.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 10:35:08 GMT -5
 SF.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 10:35:53 GMT -5
You can carmelize him all you want... won't make him right  |
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 17, 2011 10:35:58 GMT -5
I don't think Rand would support Medicaid.
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Post by marshabar1 on Jun 17, 2011 10:44:54 GMT -5
For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. And some people, craving money, have wandered from the true faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows. -- I Timothy 6:10
It's the love of money, the greed, the craving that does a person in.
It occurs to me that money has a spiritual aspect. There have been a few times in my life where the gates of money flow have just opened up and it poured in like magic. At those times I was reminded a little of other experiences in my life where God's grace was pouring in like sunshine into my life. I discerned a difference between to two experiences. I wasn't comfortable with the money. It had the same feeling of exaltation but it seemed like a dangerous exaltation and it made be feel weary. I've experienced that same spiritual weariness each time I've gambled. I don't like it.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Jun 17, 2011 10:45:51 GMT -5
You can carmelize him all you want... won't make him right How is SF wrong? Because, Opeds take on the book is the only one that matters, he can't see the fact that 2 people can read the same words and come to 2 different conclusions on what they have read. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 10:52:28 GMT -5
"The plot is the producers(ie: entrepenuers, industry) go on strike.
The country is turned into chas and decay.
Everything going on today is close to Atlas Shrugged. Job losses, industry moving out of the country and high tax states, etc. "
Do you see producers going on strike? Do you see entrepenuers losing money because its the right thing to do? lol...
I don't recall in Atlas where life ground to a halt because all of the call centers left the country? ...
Atlas Shrugged wasn't close to reality... we wouldn't have trains if it was left to private industry. And capitalist is not synonymous with altruism.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 10:57:46 GMT -5
Atlas was in large part about property rights and ownership, including the ownership of ones ideas. Where is the government take over of production and ownership, including ownership of ones ideas? How can private corporations be doing so well if that were true?
Atlas was anti-communism... and so i guess if you misunderstood communism and thought the US was communist, you might think it was applicable?
Ayn gave people way to much credit... even she couldn't live up to her ideals...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 10:57:58 GMT -5
That's why people with money give so much of it away, Marsha. By choice. Their own choice is better than the looters choice. And like Francisco d' Anconia said-- something along the line of-- if a bad man has money, what good does it do to take it from him and create many more bad people with money? Interesting... Atlas Shrugged is an amazing book. Made my heart pound reading it. The industrialists created the wealth, created the jobs for the people, when gov't decided to seize their efforts it all went downhill-- then they left..
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Post by marshabar1 on Jun 17, 2011 11:23:04 GMT -5
That's why people with money give so much of it away, Marsha. By choice. Their own choice is better than the looters choice. And like Francisco d' Anconia said-- something along the line of-- if a bad man has money, what good does it do to take it from him and create many more bad people with money? Interesting... Atlas Shrugged is an amazing book. Made my heart pound reading it. The industrialists created the wealth, created the jobs for the people, when gov't decided to seize their efforts it all went downhill-- then they left.. Big money is a big burden. It's sickening to see the politicians scramble to control the world. And liberals especially seem under the delusion that "the people" are like toy figures that can be moved around and arranged at will. They kill life and creativity. |
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 17, 2011 12:50:15 GMT -5
The attack on wealth has worked lots of times... its called revolution .... and it sure as hell works. Show me one powerful rich aristocracy today which is not under attack by its poor? Show me one powerful rich aristocracy that has survived... Atlas shrugged ... is a fairy tale... It's funny how you can explain the point, and miss the point at the same time. The rich, powerful aristocracies got that way taking from people that earned it and keeping it for themselves-- we have a political class that is attempting the same thing and 2010 was their warning shot. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 13:02:37 GMT -5
I'm rubber, you're glue Paul.... the class that says 'let them eat cake' always thinks they are doing the rest of the lowly peasants a favor... right up until they feel the shiv in their backside...
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jun 17, 2011 13:35:53 GMT -5
Redistribution ALWAYS occurs. It is a natural phenomenon that i guess i shouldn't expect people to who don't believe in evolution and systems to understand... It can occur peaceably... or through violence... but it will always occur...  Redistribution is a basic part of all cultures. I think everything in nature seeks to balance-it is when the balance is way out of whack when things get dangerous. |
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