deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 15, 2011 13:08:55 GMT -5
As I do on many threads, if the articles are on similer subject, I will post on threads already on the board, to save cluttering up the zone, Just scroll to the end to read the new article, it will have the same title as the current one on the posted thread==================================== Israeli/Palastinian negotiations to resume, Obama will participate---------------------------------- I just came across this article from debka..I thought it deserved it's own thread. It seems some preconceived conditions, recognition of Israel by Fatah , that has been dropped..and from the other side, Fatah's, the starting point of "67 " borders demanded by Fatah..also off the table. Another agreement , if they reach a impasse on a topic, instead of stopping talks they go on to another topic, possible one less contentious..back to the impasse one later. Obama's idea of "67 " borders are still his idea however and as you read the article , it seems all three have a reason to sit down to talk. Obama , the election coming up, Abbas from Fatah, he is being challenged by a member of his own party for change of leadership and accused of moving Arafats $1 plus Billion plus cash to his own accounts, and Natanyahu is under pressure politically as being intransigent in his obstinacy in wanting to settle this issue..from many in Israel , political parties in opposition and israeli's in general, many of them, so all three have their reasons, and from my side..so what, as long as they sit down and talk. As I have said / suggested before, none of these people, none of the parties involved are blameless and walk on water. They are all human with human weaknesses, their own political agendas, they are politicians, ..but they are the ones in Power and have the authority to possible do something here. It seems the automatic acceptance by so many nations to accept the Palestinian State, not negotiated with Israel , like forcing the issue, which was to be presented to the UN in September, is not the slam duck that it was reported to be. The feeling is by so many, this is a problem that HAS to be settled by the parties them selves , with help and support by others, and I have also always believed that. ------------------------------------------------ www.debka.com/article/21028/------------------------------------------------ [Click on link to read article] ------------------------------------------------ Israeli , Palastinian talks with Obama's participation, on againWed June 15, 2011 Last preparations before restart of Israel-Palestinian talks DEBKAfile Exclusive Report June 15, 2011, 2:13 PM (GMT+02:00) A second triple try for talks The final touches on US President Barack Obama's push to revive Israel-Palestinian negotiations, stalled for nearly two years, are being put in place by his Middle East advisers David Hale and Dennis Ross and the legal adviser to the National Security Council Jonathan Schwartz who arrived in Israel Tuesday, June 14. After talks in Jerusalem, the group moved to Ramallah to meet Palestinian Authority chairman Mahmoud Abbas and continue working on arrangements for a non-ceremonial, modest triple summit in Washington to kick off the negotiations. According to debkafile's Washington sources, both Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and Mahmoud Abbas have quietly committed to sit down and talk without prior conditions: The Prime Minister has dropped his demand for Abbas to first recognize Israel as the Jewish national state, while the Palestinian leader has abandoned the prior conditions for Israel to accept the 1967 lines as the starting point of the talks and halt settlement construction. Obama for his part stands by his insistence on the 1967 borders as the basis for negotiations. He has also obtained Abbas' pledge to give face-to-face diplomacy one more chance before addressing a unilateral application to the UN for recognition of Palestinian statehood. With these obstacles out of the way, Israeli-Palestinian talks are expected to restart within the next six weeks and if they go smoothly to keep going until August. The plan is for the three leaders to retire to behind closed doors after their initial joint photo op and launch their first round of talks. The exact location is one of the loose ends to be tied up this week. Complete secrecy will be observed. US officials and other authorized spokesmen will issue bulletins when deemed appropriate."
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 15, 2011 13:54:14 GMT -5
Didn't know to really put this one..article..but thought here was as good as any...shows that Politics.., Politics...no matter where , are always in play with these people..in this case , the Palestinian side..Fatah..but also in our own political arena as well as all other places in the globe..there are always stories behind the stories , usually known only by those participating or being affected, in this case the Palastinians..but because of Pro Boards , you too can know the whole story if you want to .  ;D ---------------------------------------------------------- www.upi.com/Top_News/Special/2011/06/14/PA-head-Abbas-cracks-down-on-rival-Dahlan/UPI-66951308073874/----------------------------------------------------------- [Click on link to read article] ------------------------------------------------------ PA head Abbas cracks down on rival Dahlan Published: June 14, 2011 at 1:51 PM RAMALLAH, West Bank, June 14 (UPI) -- "Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas is cracking down on former Gaza Strip security chief Mohammed Dahlan, a longtime rival, in what appears to be a power struggle within the mainstream Fatah movement. The crackdown comes as Abbas, who heads Fatah and runs the West Bank, seeks reconciliation with the fundamentalist Hamas, which has ruled the Gaza Strip since a June 2007 takeover. Dahlan and Hamas are old enemies and Abbas' move against his rival could be intended to facilitate a reconciliation effort to reunite the Palestinians as they move toward an expected declaration of statehood in September." |
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jun 15, 2011 15:23:05 GMT -5
<<< The Prime Minister has dropped his demand for Abbas to first recognize Israel as the Jewish national state, while the Palestinian leader has abandoned the prior conditions for Israel to accept the 1967 lines as the starting point of the talks and halt settlement construction. >>> ...interesting... looks like Israel with an upper hand, imo... |
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 15, 2011 15:59:09 GMT -5
<<< The Prime Minister has dropped his demand for Abbas to first recognize Israel as the Jewish national state, while the Palestinian leader has abandoned the prior conditions for Israel to accept the 1967 lines as the starting point of the talks and halt settlement construction. >>> ...interesting... looks like Israel with an upper hand, imo... Me thinks it is not a Football Game , hoping the all American guaranteed 1st pick NFL lottery pick is suddenly unable to play in the game to decide the National Championship. Seriouse business here, and it could be beneficial if both sides could come to a agreement on what they could accept , never completly happy, but be satisfied , and then get on with their business .. |
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Post by ed1066 on Jun 15, 2011 16:03:05 GMT -5
<<< The Prime Minister has dropped his demand for Abbas to first recognize Israel as the Jewish national state, while the Palestinian leader has abandoned the prior conditions for Israel to accept the 1967 lines as the starting point of the talks and halt settlement construction. >>> ...interesting... looks like Israel with an upper hand, imo... Me thinks it is not a Football Game , hoping the all American guaranteed 1st pick NFL lottery pick is suddenly unable to play in the game to decide the National Championship. Seriouse business here, and it could be beneficial if both sides could come to a agreement on what they could accept , never completly happy, but be satisfied , and then get on with their business .. I see. And what is it, exactly, that the Palestinians want? I could show you their constitution again, but I know you never read it... |
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 15, 2011 16:56:46 GMT -5
Me thinks it is not a Football Game , hoping the all American guaranteed 1st pick NFL lottery pick is suddenly unable to play in the game to decide the National Championship. Seriouse business here, and it could be beneficial if both sides could come to a agreement on what they could accept , never completly happy, but be satisfied , and then get on with their business .. I see. And what is it, exactly, that the Palestinians want? I could show you their constitution again, but I know you never read it... Not being a Palastinian ed I really don't know. I could guess what they really would want..all Jews gone from the area...as far as the Israeli's, you didn't mention them for some reason, so I will. I would guess that all Palastinians gone from Gaza and the West Bank..now neither of those things are going to happen so now it is what they both will settle for is the question..that neither of us has a clue on. |
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jun 15, 2011 17:51:33 GMT -5
<<< I could guess what they really would want..all Jews gone from the area...as far as the Israeli's, you didn't mention them for some reason, so I will. I would guess that all Palastinians gone from Gaza and the West Bank..now neither of those things are going to happen so now it is what they both will settle for is the question..that neither of us has a clue on. >>> ...and I would guess that all the Palestinians want all the Israelis gone from the area... and if that isn't going to happen, how is it that they both will settle for something else?  |
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 15, 2011 18:44:47 GMT -5
<<< I could guess what they really would want..all Jews gone from the area...as far as the Israeli's, you didn't mention them for some reason, so I will. I would guess that all Palestinians gone from Gaza and the West Bank..now neither of those things are going to happen so now it is what they both will settle for is the question..that neither of us has a clue on. >>> ...and I would guess that all the Palestinians want all the Israelis gone from the area... and if that isn't going to happen, how is it that they both will settle for something else? One can have wants, such as these parties both have and know those wants can't be fulfilled, and then you hope that they will also have wants that they can be some what satisfied with, short of their wants that will never be fulfilled but acceptable to them because they both want a settlement to come out of these talks. There will be some among both parties who will not be happy with the settlement , if there ever is one, and some might try to continue their quest for that which they can't and won't achieve. If so those in charge have to make sure they do not do so by any means necessary..the State is always paramount in these things. Those who might look to continue the struggle are not all from the one side many feel they will come from. It was a Jew who assassinated Yitzhak Rabin, the PM and defense Secretary of Israel in 1995, a former General, I believe the most decorated soldier Israel has ever had, think Eisenhower, MacArthur, Audie Murphy being assasinated..to give you a idea of stature, so the unsatisfied are not on all one side. The ultra right in Israel , while possible not the bombers of the other side, but no less fanatical in their beliefs , but even with these types in their midst, if they can get together and settle on what they can live with, even if it is below what they really want, see above, that would be a good thing, IMHO. |
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jun 15, 2011 18:55:18 GMT -5
<<< The ultra right in Israel , while possible not the bombers of the other side, but no less fanatical in their beliefs , but even with these types in their midst, if they can get together and settle on what they can live with, even if it is below what they really want, see above, that would be a good thing, IMHO. >>> ...but, imo, the Israelis likely won't... and why should they, anyway? |
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 16, 2011 0:11:55 GMT -5
<<< The ultra right in Israel , while possible not the bombers of the other side, but no less fanatical in their beliefs , but even with these types in their midst, if they can get together and settle on what they can live with, even if it is below what they really want, see above, that would be a good thing, IMHO. >>> ...but, imo, the Israelis likely won't... and why should they, anyway? If they find themselves isolated..Europe, Asian Countries[so many of the Muslim faith]. Even here , the continued $3 bill a year does piss off many, seems the Tea party folks are not to happy. Do you believe all Americans are as enthusiastic as say ed, Krickett..others here are?.. If they show they are not willing to sit and negotiate and try to come up with a solution they risk being a isolated State, and that is not good or healthy or a guarantee for survival.. Do you think it's good for a State to raise their young to hate another, neighbor, be there over seer, grow up to feel these people over the wall are less a human being, and that is happening.. They, Israelis will have to make sure they can get the best defensive settlement they can get, the best borders, non militarized West Bank beyond normal small arms and such for the other side, and finally get on with normal existence, always on their guard however..so to not sit and see what they can come up with.,.that is just idiotic, and if Obama can give them some help there, so be it, use him, but the final deal will be with the two parties.. |
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 16, 2011 1:42:04 GMT -5
This is another reason it might behoove the two sides to try and come to a agreement, the thinking of many young Palestinians who are giving up the idea of a two State Solution, just wanting certain inalienable rights of freedom, movement, fairness. This is not what Israel wants nor the older leaders who favor a two State solution..even older former supporters of a Palestinian State are changing their minds now, feeling that with Israel controlling 60 % of the West Bank there is no way a Palestinian State could be viable. The question could be, so what are these people expecting realistically, Is rel has the Guns, the power..but I say the Palestinians have the right to birth children and with 1.2 million Israeli Arabs who propagate so much more then the average Israeli, it is only a matter of time and we are talking a decade or two or possible three at the most, when the majority in Israel will not be Jews but Arab. In the meantime, what these Palestinian youth are asking for, how can one say know to them. They are not interested in confrontation with the Israeli's, nor are they supporters of Hamas , Fatah.. ------------------------------------------------------------------- uk.news.yahoo.com/palestinians-seek-redefine-national-struggle-131235015.html--------------------------------------------------- [Click on links to read article] --------------------------------------------------- ....RAMALLAH, West Bank (Reuters) - Freedom, justice, dignity and equality are the demands of a new generation of Palestinians seeking to redefine their national struggle in a way that could threaten both Israel and their own leadership. They are neither Fatah or Hamas and care as little for the Palestinians' factional politics as they do for the "two-state solution" which President Mahmoud Abbas has long presented as the only workable resolution to the conflict with Israel. "As far as we are concerned, our issue is one of rights," said Hazem Abu Hilal, an activist in a human rights-focussed movement which he says is gaining followers thanks to Arab uprisings across the region. "It's not that important if there is a state or not. What matters is securing these four demands," he said, speaking as he recovered from the effects of a foul-smelling liquid sprayed by Israeli forces during a West Bank protest he helped organise. "We suffer from racial discrimination, we suffer from restrictions, we don't have the freedom to move," Abu Hilal, 28, said. "We are talking about a human rights movement." His brand of activism opposes violence, even the stone-throwing that has characterised Palestinian protest since the first Intifada, or uprising, in 1987. However, attempts to stop it do not always succeed, if tear gas is flying. The activists' numbers are limited: only around 200 took part at one recent protest. However some observers believe their rights-based agenda could play a major role in shaping a new chapter in the Palestinian struggle, as the strategies of existing leaders appear to have failed." |
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jun 16, 2011 10:23:38 GMT -5
<<< "As far as we are concerned, our issue is one of rights," said Hazem Abu Hilal, an activist in a human rights-focussed movement which he says is gaining followers thanks to Arab uprisings across the region. "It's not that important if there is a state or not. What matters is securing these four demands," he said, >>> ...okay, then... so why not take it up with your own government, instead of your neighbor's... |
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Post by ed1066 on Jun 16, 2011 11:42:04 GMT -5
I wonder what would happen if Israeli civilians "protested" in front of Hezbollah or Hamas terror squads on the streets of the West Bank? What do you think, Dezi, would the jihadis spray the protestors with "foul-smelling liquid"? Do tell...
Your articles are disgustingly biased and tiresome...
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Post by privateinvestor on Jun 16, 2011 12:07:50 GMT -5
I wonder what would happen if Israeli civilians "protested" in front of Hezbollah or Hamas terror squads on the streets of the West Bank? What do you think, Dezi, would the jihadis spray the protesters with "foul-smelling liquid"? Do tell...
Your articles are disgustingly biased and tiresome..
I agree ed and cutting and pasting without study or research isn't adding anything to the Palestinian/Israel conflict and the negotiations with Abbas and Netanyahu may never happen or be a waste of time again
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 16, 2011 14:33:34 GMT -5
I wonder what would happen if Israeli civilians "protested" in front of Hezbollah or Hamas terror squads on the streets of the West Bank? What do you think, Dezi, would the jihadis spray the protesters with "foul-smelling liquid"? Do tell...
Your articles are disgustingly biased and tiresome..I agree ed and cutting and pasting without study or research isn't adding anything to the Palestinian/Israel conflict and the negotiatins with Abbas and Netanyahu may never happen or be a waste of time again Actually , when you say research , what do you mean? A thesis?..Actually there are warnings on the articles posted, dates, authors of..most are opinion pieces..usually a disclaimer on the bottom, "the views expressed are the authors", Always with a post of MY readings of the meaning of the article, IMHO, also open for discussion and rebuttal. Are you suggesting that because some of the articles express views you are not in favor of or are expressions of what some others feel,from their perspective, again against of how you believe things are, one shouldn't be exposed to those thoughts? In showing a positive light to some groups you feel are not ones you favor, they should not be shown? I think it's called censorship, something like that, you are suggesting. In your mind they should not be posted here? If so, I would suggest a pro board site where your views could be upheld, you in control of the content. I am sure you would have some who might be comfortable there, but till told differently, I will continue to post articles, I find interesting, showing all sides of disputes, so others can comment , learn a few things.. Question constructively and also against those ideas expressed including my own..I never liked the idea of censorship, always stuck in my craw in a way..I guess you are perfectly at home with it however, another thing we disagree with methinks. ;D Actually specifically in the last article I posted , it seems the theme of it is there are young AND some older palastinians who fell : "Freedom, justice, dignity and equality are the demands of a new generation of Palestinians seeking to redefine their national struggle in a way that could threaten both Israel and their own leadership." your finding a objection to that as well as their feelings on the political : "They are neither Fatah or Hamas and care as little for the Palestinians' factional politics as they do for the "two-state solution" your objecting to those ideas too? |
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Post by privateinvestor on Jun 16, 2011 15:15:48 GMT -5
Palestinians don't want peace and will not lay down their arms...Palestinians want to wipe Israel off the face of the map so deal with it and get used to it. Hamas runs the Palestinian State and even the uneducated in the Middle East know this basic tenet This fact was true 40 years ago and will be true for at least until Hamas is no longer viable ....IMHO
Hamas has consistently said that if Israel lifted the blockade and withdrew to '67 borders they would call a truce and everyone could go back to their normal life. Israel rejected this outright, so how is this 'plan' for peace a better solution?
The leader of the Palestinian militant Hamas government in Gaza has condemned the United States for killing al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden.
Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh says the operation is “the continuation of the American oppression and shedding of blood of Muslims and Arabs.”
Hamas has repeatedly said it has no ties to al-Qaida and that its violent struggle is directed solely against Israel, and not the West at large. Does anyone think talks in six weeks will end this hostility in Palestine?
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 19, 2011 19:01:08 GMT -5
Seems as reported, not all is happy times regarding the reconciliation of Fatah and Hama as a united front in confronting and negotiating with Israel and as importantly presenting their case for recognition as a State before the nations of the world as they were hoping to do in September at the United Nations. It seems Hamas rejection of the acting PM of Fatah, Salam Fayyad acting because the term limits have expired for all of those representing Fatah[PA} as PM of the united parties has been the stumbling block, Hamas feels the PM, Fayyad, has worked with the Israeli's in disrupting Hamas leaderships and Fatah says he is one of the few who has good relations with the West and is trusted to see that moneys and aid given to the Palestinians will be fairly looked after. He also is seen as being instrumental in the success of the businesses , economy and social and security services in that area, the West Bank. Basically doing a very good job. ------------------------------------------------------- english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/06/2011619174455513476.html------------------------------------------------------- Middle East Palestinian unity meeting postponed Hamas and Fatah disagree on nomination for Palestinian prime minister, prompting row between the two governing forces. 19 Jun 2011 19:49 "A planned announcement of a new Palestinian unity government has been delayed after the Fatah and Hamas movements failed to agree on a prime minister. The announcement was planned for Tuesday, but Fatah officials told the Reuters news agency that talks between Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, who heads Fatah, and Hamas chief Khaled Meshaal, had been postponed. The unity deal was reached after both groups agreed to a reconciliation deal in April, when the rival factions agreed to form an administration of ministers without party affiliations, to prepare for general elections within a year. Fatah, led by Western-backed Abbas, nominated Salam Fayyad, a former World Bank economist who currently heads the Palestinian government in the West Bank, to the post. Hamas, the group which maintains power in the Gaza Strip since taking control from Fatah in 2007, has rejected Fayyad, accusing him of co-operating with Israel's blockade on Gaza. "We asked our brothers and the Egyptian leadership to postpone the meeting for several days," said Azzam al-Ahmed, head of the Fatah delegation to unity talks in Cairo, citing Abbas's busy schedule. "We will call them in a few days to set a date for a new meeting, and we hope the next session will be successful," he told Reuters. 'Serious implications' Other Fatah officials, who asked not be identified because of the sensitivity of the issue, attributed the delay to the dispute over appointing Fayyad. Hamas spokesperson Taher Al-Nono confirmed that Fatah asked for a delay. "We are ready to meet once they are," Al-Nono told Reuters. A statement issued earlier from the office of Ismail Haniyeh, the head of Hamas' administration in Gaza, said: "The meeting may be postponed and this will have serious implications for the discussions on forming the government." Last week, Palestinian officials said Abbas and Meshaal would meet in Cairo on Tuesday to unveil the new government. Fayyad supporters say his standing abroad was an asset for Palestinians in ensuring the continued flow of international aid and in pursuing a bid for UN recognition of Palestinian statehood, expected in September. Israel has said the reconciliation accord, brokered in secrecy by Egypt, would not secure peace and it urged Abbas to continue to shun Hamas" |
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