Remembering Galicia/part of the Holocaust

[deziloooooo]

As I try to do, I will combine similer article that seem to match the drift of the original thread I posted to save clutter on the zone, plus keep similer topics together for easier reading. Just scroll to the last article, same title of the header of the thread for the most current article posted.
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Teacher brings Holocaust alive to students
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We hear about how poor our educational system is , so poor, how teachers are so inadequate, not really caring for their students if they learn or not, and then you come across a story like this.

These young people will remeber this trip and what they saw for the rest of their lives, and I beleave if they find themselves in a group where hate of others and prejudices is being uttered by some, they will step forward and say,

"No You are wrong, I have been and seen where thoughts like yours have caused innocents to perish, seen the results of actions against them, your words are not true, you lie "
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www.courant.com/news/breaking/hc-avon-genocide-class-0609-20110608,0,4449460.story
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Stu Abrams, the 2009-10 Avon teacher of the year, teaches a class on genocide at Avon High School and recently took his students to Central and Eastern Europe to tour concentration camps. This past week, Abrams has been leading a discussion about the genocide in Rwanda and his descriptions of the horrors in that country caused many emotional moments for his students. (STEPHEN DUNN / Hartford Courant / June 7, 2011)


By JULIE STAGIS, [e-mail]

The Hartford Courant

9:03 p.m. EDT, June 12, 2011
AVON —— When Avon High School teacher Stu Abrams recounted a particular story from the tour of Europe he recently took with 18 students, he and school counselor Laura Sullivan began to cry.

In April, Abrams — who teaches a class on genocide — and Sullivan led the "Freedom Tour," a trip to concentration camps, Holocaust museums and other landmarks in Germany, the Czech Republic and Poland. On the fifth day of the trip, the students met an 88-year-old man named Mylos at the Jewish Community Center in Prague.

"He was the cutest guy you ever saw," Abrams said. "He told us about how he met his wife, how he survived Auschwitz."

Mylos told the Avon visitors a story about how he and a group of concentration camp survivors left Auschwitz and, in their travels, came across a field of dandelions, in which they slept one night. One of the group remarked that the French often put dandelions in their salads. The next morning, the field was empty — the starved survivors had eaten them all.

When Abrams, Sullivan and their students visited Auschwitz the next day, they emerged from a building and saw dandelions, Abrams said with tears in his eyes.

"It's a Jewish tradition to put stones or rocks on graves to show that they've been visited," he said. "At Auschwitz, they told us the whole place is a grave site. No matter where you put the stone, it's a grave.

"We walk out, and there's a patch of dandelions," he said, his voice catching. "So that's where we put the stone."

Abrams, who was named the Connecticut Teacher of the Year in 2009, has taught the genocide class for seven years. It emerged from a humanities class that touched on the Holocaust, he said. The class covers genocides throughout the world, including those in Armenia and Rwanda.

This year's was the first "Freedom Tour."

The students traveled from Berlin to Prague to Oswiecim and Krakow, Poland. They visited Berlin's Jewish Museum, Terezin and Auschwitz concentration camps and Oskar Schindler's enamel factory, subject of the 1993 movie "Schindler's List."

"Schindler's factory was the last place we visited," Abrams said. "I wanted to end not on a note of despair, or a note of horror, or a note of catastrophe, but on a note of optimism and hope."

Schindler, a German businessman, saved the lives of more than 1,000 Holocaust refugees by employing them in his factory and protecting them from the Nazis.

Abrams, Sullivan and the students said the experiences of the trip greatly affected them.

"I try not to make it sound like this [trip] is the greatest thing that ever happened, but it is hard not to be cognizant of the changes it caused in each of us," Abrams said.

Natalia Yakimyuk, 16, said the rooms full of human hair and shoes at the concentration camps were the most shocking.

"I can't complain anymore [after the trip]. I can't say I'm having a bad hair day," Yakimyuk said. "Whether I'm broke, or have a penny in my wallet, I can't complain."

The students described how their usually goofy, boisterous group was struck dumb for hours by the camp tours. One student recalled the fingernail scratches on the walls of a small gas chamber at Auschwitz. The experiences of the trip made everything they had learned about, everything they had seen pictures of, real, the students said.

"You can feel it," 17-year-old Nick Johnson said. "It's not just what you're seeing."

Even students who did not make the trip said Abrams' class brings everything to life. One student called it the most important class at Avon High School. Another said it was the most emotional class she's ever taken.

"I don't even know how to put it into words. Every day, he teaches goodness," Sullivan said of Abrams. She also praised the students who choose to take the class, and those who go on the "Freedom Tour."

"It takes courage to choose [to face these harsh realities] and to stand in that discomfort to see the world through a clear lens," she said.

"It's really them; it's really the students," Abrams said. "You can't get satisfaction like this from any other profession."

"Unless we use education to make our students better humans, we are missing the point," he said."

[ed1066]

Know that if you support the Palestinian "cause", you support people who deny this ever happened...

[deziloooooo]

Jun 13, 2011 0:07:26 GMT -5 @ed1066 said:

Know that if you support the Palestinian "cause", you support people who deny this ever happened...

poor ed , you get nothing positive out of anything at all ed, me thinks to be around you in the real world...you must be a real drag..

[chiver78]

Jun 13, 2011 1:33:58 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Jun 13, 2011 0:07:26 GMT -5 @ed1066 said:

Know that if you support the Palestinian "cause", you support people who deny this ever happened...

poor ed , you get nothing positive out of anything at all ed, me thinks to be around you in the real world...you must be a real drag..

thanks for sharing this, dezi.... my sis got to chaperon a similarly-themed trip to Washington DC a couple years ago. her school offered a class much like the one that Stu Abrams teaches, and the class went to see the Holocaust Museum in the spring. she said seeing the exhibits through the eyes of the kids was amazing.

[henryclay]

Thanks for the link, desi. And knowing more about the effects it has on different people is in a way refreshing. That's because it has been getting dimmer in history and perhaps overtaken by other events.

But the Holocaust did happen. Over 12 million people died in the death camps, essentially half of them were Jews. Men, women, school children, toddlers, old people, the sick and the healthy. Millions of others died in slave labor jobs building the things Germany needed to wage war.

But, like ed, I'd like to ask how it is that you, or anyone else, can know all these things, yet not support Israel in whatever, , , whatever, , , action she feels necessary to protect her right to exist as a nation. Whether it is protecting it's borders or protecting one single Jew inside its borders

Because who knows that the loss of the next Jew's life and property may be the first move toward the elimination of the very country.

Why would anyone NOT support Israel's right to exist and every move that is made to ensure that right?

Not to just to defend the right, but to ensure it?

I ask because to me at least, , , anyone who cannot support Israel's right to ensure its own survival makes me wonder whether they would "only" support America's survival up to a point.

To me there is no real difference. and I suspect there are a lot of other people who feel the same way. If a person can't support another country's right to exist, then at what point would that person fail to support his own country' rights?

[swamp]

I think everyone should see the camps firsthand, but who pays for this? Avon is a really expensive area, so I'm assuming the parents..........

[Deleted]

This is my neck of the woods.

[deziloooooo]

First glad you all enjoyed the article, I found it interesting and impressive that 18 kids and their teacher and chaperons would do a trip like that, and that Stu Abrams ideas on education,

"It's really them; it's really the students," Abrams said. "You can't get satisfaction like this from any other profession."

"Unless we use education to make our students better humans, we are missing the point," he said."

struck a cord with me. Also a comment of a Irish kid [I am assuming here }""I don't even know how to put it into words. Every day, he teaches goodness," Sullivan said of Abrams." toward this Jewish [again , assuming ] teacher, just respect, and awe and the same back, no thinking of who he is, what he is, so different from the thoughts of the ones he teaches about.
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"yet not support Israel in whatever, , , whatever, , , action she feels necessary to protect her right to exist as a nation."

I have answered this before here , will try to do so again, .

Personally I support Israel , feel it has to be a Jewish State, for many of the reasons that these kids and the teachers went to Europe to see for themselves what "Holocaust" really means. The need for a Jewish State is not just because of the Holocaust , though it was a great motivator to so form one, but the whole History of the people.

For some reason or other they/we Jews, seem to P people off and terrible things happen to them/us and when one examines what set people off so much with them, looking for reasons, it basically comes down , in some ways a bit different and this seems to set others off.

So their own State with all those powers and privileges allowed such to be able to offer refuge if needed and protection from harm, is a no brainier, sorry Lakhota, necessary and with out question.

With all that said, because I have questions of the State on some of their policies , ed comes to mind, possible you too, and others, feel because I have those questions I am for the removal of the State as A Jewish State, as Lakhota feels should be done, I get that from his posts here, just reading what he posts and go from there, just have a State, one man, one vote, utopia, and even more ludicrous because I have some questions I am against them and for the other side, in this case the Palestinians.

To me that is nuts and I put it to the way comments on so many topics are thrown around here, just how do you say it with out p some one off..OK, to me just nonsensical and off the wall.

Actually there are things in my family and I personally that have to do with Israel, fathers involvement right after the war and also having relatives, distant now , but still related who are Israeli's, and I having been there three times in my life am very aware of the dangers, the tiny size of the country , things you haven't a clue about.
Enough to say, I am a great supporter of.

If Marsha brings up a thread about attacks on Jews by Palestinian villages and young people throwing rocks at others at Prayer, and I bring up actions that are happening with Jewish settlers toward Palestinian villages that makes me a pro Palestinian supporter?

If I bring up a article of Israeli Governments actions against Palestinian Israeli's,[citizens of the country, 1.2 million of them live there, 18 % of the population] that seem discriminatory if true[it is] and to me is really just a "in the face action ", happening because it can happen, that means to you, I am for the other side??

I amy feel it has nothing to do with the security of the State, where as a fairer treatment of their own second class citizens, [they are in my mind] possible would , if not in love with their neighbors, a better feeling of and support of .

The polls still show they, Palestinian Israeli's really do not want to leave Israel proper for the West Bank, forget the hell hole of Gaza, the State, they just want a fairer treatment, able to also teach their own History, what group doesn't, better schooling and more able to work at more jobs.

According to the posted report I put up, a college educated Palestinian is not able to get a retail sales job in a mall[they have em there too] because they haven't put their three years in in the military, [Not allowed in ]..you think that's fair?

It shouldn't be mentioned and if it is the one who brings it up here is now for the other side?

When the young[most where] demonstrators went to the borders a week or so ago, demonstrated their frustrations and the deaths of many of them and reported wounding too, who knows how many, if true, those figures were coming from the Syrians.

However, I brought up some questions of the way it was handled , most here were posting along the lines, " mow them down "....because I brought up some questions about the tactics , planning by the senior ones in charge, [Same thing was being discussed by many Israeli's by the way, all not happy, questions on the tactics, especially the second confrontation, knew it was coming and the size of]..by asking those questions, that puts me on the other side?

I said how I feel if any one broke through and approached the solders defending the border, can't take the chance with suicide vests, weapons , have to do what hey needed to do to protect themselves.

My concern was how they were reacting by nosy youth, yelling epitaphs , throwing some rocks..."mow em don " to me played into the hands of the ones organizing the confrontation..but because I raised some questions, I am a supporter of the Palestinians over the Israeli's??

So I post those negatives that to me have nothing to do with the security of the state, just more "in your face , because I can do it ", all those things by the way are true, and there are Israeli's too who question decisions of their government, and because of those posts you , ed , suggest I am for the other side..to me does not compute.

Actually I have been posting some articles lately, I don't know if you are reading my threads..but Israel right now , IMHO, is facing some real troubling times.

Their thirty year peace with Egypt, while not perfect, never a kum ba yaa moment, was a period where they , Israeli's, were able to cut their defense spending from 25 % of the budget to a bit over 10% which in a small State is so important, as they have so many other things to spend their $ on..

Their overall budget is about 110 Billion per, the three Billion they get from us, [Most spent back in the US, arms, ours, latest, F-35 jets] is important but not life or death.

Now with that peace seemingly unraveling, as the PM said , these Peace treaties, over time things can change, thus needing to take care of their own defenses as much as possible, thus he says "67" borders are a non starter..fine, but then again, a question.

You had a party who was not the defiant one , Fatah, Abba's, swore off violence, to talk to, was it really necessary to continue building these apartments in East Jerusalem, even though all knew those areas were going to go to Israel in a final border settlement ?

However, it was one less thing for the Palestinians to give away to get some other concession, can't give away something one does not have any longer. My question, why, seems another "in your face moment , because we can get away with it "

The same way with the security fence, always on the Palestinian side of the "67" border, never the Israeli side, it is thought as much as 15 % of the Palestinian possible land, those old borders was taken that way.

I have no problem with the fence, think they should finish it, possible in a 100 years might consider taking it down, maybe...but again, a question, why just on their Palestinian side, so when I question that makes me a Pro Palestinian???

Are you getting my argument or was this all for nothing,.

I am a big supporter of Israel, I do have questions however, however, right know I feel Israel is facing some real problems.

Hamas/Fatah possible merger
Egypt seems to be changing their way of dealing with the State
Egypt on again , off again supply of Gas to Jordan/Israel..possible stop it , OR it just might be to get a fairer price for it, seems Mubarak may have given them a special deal that was not fair to the Egyptians..if so, well they'll negotiate it.
[Israel has a hugh discovery of Gas that is being developed right now , in time the Egyptian Gas may be a moot point, not needed possible}
Iran involvement in Lebanon, Syria, support of Hezbollah , Naval Base to be built in Syria,

All this and more, yep, think right now , Israel has some concerns, always does but right now a bit more..and when that happens, questions on their conduct, policies, seem to be more muted, don't go away, just are put on the back burner, put on simmer..

[You expected a three line reply??}

[deziloooooo]

Jun 13, 2011 9:21:12 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

My wife and I toured the Holocaust Museum while we were in DC.

Even being extensively aware of the history of this nightmare touring the museum was a very moving and troubling experience. The Nazi's certainly exploited the most twisted and sadistic sickos to visit this horror on innocent people.

The last time I was in Washington the museum wasn't yet open, still being constructed demin, however I visited a traveling exhibit in Hartford , Ct, Athenium, took my two kids , and there was a full size picture of just cooking and kitchen utensils, taken from Jewish homes the kitchens..I will never forget it.

Hitler, his people, very weird folks to say the least.
The plan was after they won the war, he wanted a museum dedicated to a "Lost people ". the Jews, lost because he and they, Nazi's had killed them all, so he had this department, curators actually collecting all these every day things..not for distribution to his own people, spoils of war, but for a permanent exhibit..

As I stood in front of that hugh blow up , it was almost the size of a small wall, clear as a bell, like you could touch and pick pieces shown up, I had the thought, these were copper, metal utensils , well used, possible many handed down in the families, favorite pots, pans, Grandma Yedel , Sarah, Ida..made the family secret strudel in these same pans, heres the secret family recipe, you will tell your daughter when she is of age to understand and possible hand the favorite strudel pan along with he when she set up her hiome...all those thousands of families, actually millions...all gone up in flames..

All that was left were the posts and pans used by those poor folks , in loving manner.

What society , especially Jewish families, does not revolve around the mother, daughters, grandmothers, lovingly preparing food for their families..everyday and also in this case, every Friday night before the men would go off to schull to pray to their G-d, all gone...to me it was very emotional , and after the exhibit , I took the kids for a good lunch, they were teens..and we discussed it, and I know they got a idea of what it was all about.

That one picture of..and I have seen so many in my life time..that one really got to me..all those hundreds of pots, pans, forks, knives..piled up, waiting to be displayed in that G Damn museum.

[thyme4change]

If you are going to travel around the world, it is much easier to learn about other cultures. It is nice that this teacher inspired these kids to even want to learn this stuff - but I don't think he brought history to life as much as being in the actual place and talking with actual survivors brought it to life.

You want to show a teacher who really inspires someone - show me a teacher that does it with a $10 budget - not $10,000 worth of travel.

[deziloooooo]

Jun 13, 2011 11:05:24 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

If you are going to travel around the world, it is much easier to learn about other cultures. It is nice that this teacher inspired these kids to even want to learn this stuff - but I don't think he brought history to life as much as being in the actual place and talking with actual survivors brought it to life.

You want to show a teacher who really inspires someone - show me a teacher that does it with a $10 budget - not $10,000 worth of travel.

Thyme it seems this teacher does that, this was it seems a special event...this is what he teaches..possible other subjects too, but as the article points out, it isn't just the European Holocaust he teaches..ones going on today as well as the past..Armenians for example, by the Turks of that time, though they still take no blame for it..and others I am sure..so to me, seems he IS doing it for what say ? $10 bucks..seems already being done.[Bet the total of that trip, 18 plus chaperone's, a lot more then $10,000]

[mmhmm]

What a great trip this would have been, I'd think. I'd have loved to attend something like this, and I know my kids would have. We traveled through Germany and saw many of these places on our own, but I think the kids would have enjoyed it, and learned a lot more if presented in this context, and shared with their peers. As it was, we were all moved to tears more than once, as we were in Leningrad (now, St. Petersburgh once again) at the memorial to those who died during the siege. While I'm not one for living in the past, I do believe we learn our greatest and most important lessons from our pasts. We need to know in order to put those lessons learned to use.

[henryclay]

desi, can you say that in fewer words? I got lost and had to give up.

[deziloooooo]

Jun 13, 2011 14:29:01 GMT -5 henryclay said:

desi, can you say that in fewer words? I got lost and had to give up.

Henry I gave you the benefit of the doubt, ..you asked, I answered, can't do any more then that..had the feeling, as I knew it would be but felt, "what the hell , give it a try..for once seemed you just asked a question, not trying the old "one up the other guy" game, I was wrong, no surprise really, you are/were ...so guess you'll just have to '', yep,..."deal with it "...

[Deleted]

God bless Israel and the Jewish people. I'm a Christian. I will ALWAYS stand by Israel.

[chiver78]

Jun 13, 2011 16:44:12 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Jun 13, 2011 14:29:01 GMT -5 henryclay said:

desi, can you say that in fewer words? I got lost and had to give up.

Henry I gave you the benefit of the doubt, ..you asked, I answered, can't do any more then that..had the feeling, as I knew it would be but felt, "what the hell , give it a try..for once seemed you just asked a question, not trying the old "one up the other guy" game, I was wrong, no surprise really, you are/were ...so guess you'll just have to '', yep,..."deal with it "...

you weren't giving him the expected answer, that was the problem. life is not all in black and white, there are many shades of gray continually pop up.

[deziloooooo]

Jun 13, 2011 16:51:03 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Jun 13, 2011 16:44:12 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Henry I gave you the benefit of the doubt, ..you asked, I answered, can't do any more then that..had the feeling, as I knew it would be but felt, "what the hell , give it a try..for once seemed you just asked a question, not trying the old "one up the other guy" game, I was wrong, no surprise really, you are/were ...so guess you'll just have to '', yep,..."deal with it "...

you weren't giving him the expected answer, that was the problem. life is not all in black and white, there are many shades of gray continually pop up.

AS I said , gave him the benefit of the doubt..my answer seemed clear to me...hope you and some others understood, but best I could do..

[deziloooooo]

Jun 13, 2011 16:49:12 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

God bless Israel and the Jewish people. I'm a Christian. I will ALWAYS stand by Israel.

Glad to hear that Krick..me too

[ed1066]

Jun 13, 2011 16:51:03 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Jun 13, 2011 16:44:12 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Henry I gave you the benefit of the doubt, ..you asked, I answered, can't do any more then that..had the feeling, as I knew it would be but felt, "what the hell , give it a try..for once seemed you just asked a question, not trying the old "one up the other guy" game, I was wrong, no surprise really, you are/were ...so guess you'll just have to '', yep,..."deal with it "...

you weren't giving him the expected answer, that was the problem. life is not all in black and white, there are many shades of gray continually pop up.

I see. So tell me about the "shades of gray" you see in the Hamas National Charter, or the PA's refusal to recognize Israel's right to exist. Do tell...

[henryclay]

I thanked desi for the thread, and I asked how could anyone NOT support Israel's quest to be a viable state. I included reference to supporting our own right to exist, bar none, hands down, slam dunk.

I don't know what I got for an answer.

Things are just that black and white when somebody wants you dead, like Bush said. "Either you are with us every step of the way, or you are not with us every step of the way, and if you're not with us, you must be with "them".

It may be foreign to some people, but I believe it is crystal clear to most of us. There are entire nations, with guns, who wantt Israel gone, dead. buried and forgotten.

In such a case to ONLY thing Israel can do wrong is to slack off in its resolve.

[chiver78]

Jun 13, 2011 17:03:52 GMT -5 @ed1066 said:

Jun 13, 2011 16:51:03 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

you weren't giving him the expected answer, that was the problem. life is not all in black and white, there are many shades of gray continually pop up.

I see. So tell me about the "shades of gray" you see in the Hamas National Charter, or the PA's refusal to recognize Israel's right to exist. Do tell...

I see shades of gray in supporting part, but not all, of a group's actions. kind of like the American political parties - I support some of the things in the platforms of both major parties, but not everything from either. I am never willing to paint everyone of a certain group with a broad enough brush to generalize.

did that answer your question sufficiently?

[deziloooooo]

and look what Bush gave us...he didn't beleive in a Grey area either..just "hell bent for leather..go for it", also wouldn't listen to his generals when they asked for more troops before the attack..allowed his Sec of Defense to browbeat them to finally giving in to what HE wanted, less troops, less cost, do it on the cheap, putting a man in charge who ordered the Iraqui military , police to stand down, turn in their uniforms , go home, and allow the citiznery to run rampant out of control and felt no remorse when that happened.

[henryclay]

did that answer your question sufficiently?

I donl't know. Did anyone ask a question about American politics?

[henryclay]

look what Bush gave us...

What does any of that have to do with supporting Israel's fight for it's very life?

[ed1066]

Jun 13, 2011 17:20:16 GMT -5 henryclay said:

look what Bush gave us...

What does any of that have to do with supporting Israel's fight for it's very life?

Nothing, of course, but when you corner them on coming to terms with their feelings about Jews, you can see the reaction you get; attempts to distract, misdirection and denial...

[handyman2]

Touching story Dezi: If we do not educate our children about the horrers and mistakes of past history they may very well repeat them.
My dad was in a group that libirated a camp. I never could get him to talk about it. He would only say he had seen hell up close and he could not describe it.

[formerexpat]

Nice story Dez and while others may not have enjoyed or read your post on your stance on Israel, I did and learned a few things. I do read some of the stories you post from Al Jazeera.

My wife and I went to Dachau while we lived overseas. Such a sobering and eye opening experience.

[deziloooooo]

Jun 13, 2011 17:20:16 GMT -5 henryclay said:

look what Bush gave us...

What does any of that have to do with supporting Israel's fight for it's very life?

Your the one who brought up Bush as a way to do things correctly.

"Things are just that black and white when somebody wants you dead, like Bush said. "Either you are with us every step of the way, or you are not with us every step of the way, and if you're not with us, you must be with "them".

To have questions on certain policies..in your mind is to be disloyal, means support the other side..in my mind it means just that, to have questions. Krickett on another thread just brought up the same idea , questioning my support of..what i really want to answer her is one thing..better just to and leave how I really feel on her ******* comment off these boards..

same here, I gave you a to long explanation..all your interested in is playing silly games..I am not playing,,play with your self or " deal with it" ..my comments, what ever is your pleasure..

[deziloooooo]

Jun 13, 2011 17:33:26 GMT -5 @ed1066 said:

Jun 13, 2011 17:20:16 GMT -5 henryclay said:

look what Bush gave us...

What does any of that have to do with supporting Israel's fight for it's very life?

Nothing, of course, but when you corner them on coming to terms with their feelings about Jews, you can see the reaction you get; attempts to distract, misdirection and denial...

"When you corner them "...the them is me ed..and your idiotic post, I am a Jew as you know.."distract, misdirection and denial"..in what way and distract , deny, misdirect , from what..??

[deziloooooo]

Jun 13, 2011 20:52:53 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

Nice story Dez and while others may not have enjoyed or read your post on your stance on Israel, I did and learned a few things. I do read some of the stories you post from Al Jazeera.

My wife and I went to Dachau while we lived overseas. Such a sobering and eye opening experience.

Former, handy..glad you enjoyed the story..

I do give credit to the Germans for recognizing their responsibilities on what happened, their Children are taught about the Holocaust in school, they have kept Dachau as a example of rather then burying it and allowing development over it and the memorial; to the Jews in Berlin recently opened, shows they do not want this chapter in their history to be forgotten and to insure it never happens again they acknowledge it.

Some thing the Japanese have never done actually..