wyouser
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Post by wyouser on Jun 10, 2011 16:34:57 GMT -5
Yes, if people bothered to save. But, most choose to live for the moment, which will cost them in the future & often means they have to work until their 80. It is all about choices & priorities. This is true, up to a point, Angel. Some of those who find themselves in a difficult position now did have good plans. The collapse of S&L due to corruption, the precipitous drop in home values, the banking fiasco ... all these things weren't anticipated, as the average person had no crystal ball to know it was going to happen in time to set up for it. The younger population has a chance to prepare themselves, and I sure hope they take it. Those, however, who were at, or near retirement when the defecation hit the air management system weren't in such an auspicious position. A significant number found their retirement funds dwindling to a pittance before they could blink twice. It's these I feel for.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 10, 2011 16:40:51 GMT -5
Yes, if people bothered to save. But, most choose to live for the moment, which will cost them in the future & often means they have to work until their 80. It is all about choices & priorities. This is true, up to a point, Angel. Some of those who find themselves in a difficult position now did have good plans. I agree that there are exceptions to my statement, some people do hit hard times that causes major setbacks. But, I would say the majority that are complaining about being unable to retire weren't saving enough to begin with & then the economy was just the extra push to send them over the edge.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 10, 2011 16:48:57 GMT -5
There was WORK then, angel!! The work is not there now. I'm not expecting anyone to "feel sorry for me", but I am telling you I worked my butt off in the service industry my entire life that I worked, there was no 401K, I am in a generation of women that hooked their retirement to their husbands.. who failed the family, and now you are talking like we are lazy, made bad choices-- when at the time the choices were the GOOD choices?? What do you expect us to do now? Forget it, I can't have this conversation. Did you save when there was work? Not having access to a 401K is no excuse for not saving for the future. I understand unemployment could be a major setback, but you still should have a good amount saved for retirement by now. If you don't, then your current unemployment status isn't really the reason you will have to work until you drop. You will have to work until you drop because you never saved for retirement. As far as the husband thing - how long have you been independent? From the way I've heard you talk it seems as though we are talking a decade or so. Shouldn't you have saved something & planned for your own future during that time? If it was far more recently, then why didn't you get part of his retirement savings in the divorce? I'm not trying to be mean. I just have a hard time falling for the "woe is me" attitude when for the most part where people are in life is a direct result of your past choices & I don't see you as an exception to this.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 10, 2011 17:14:59 GMT -5
Yes, if people bothered to save. But, most choose to live for the moment, which will cost them in the future & often means they have to work until their 80. So true Angel D! But when the time comes & they can't retire don't forget they will be bitching & moaning how SS & the government let them down because they don't get enough money. They of course will never acknowledge that they knew that SS wasn't ever meant to be all of their retirement & they didn't save anything for it (so it's their fault). SS was a poorly designed program to start with & then you have to add in the stupidity of people. Sometimes it drives me crazy. We have some friends that are in their peak earning years. Between the 2 of them they earn enough to be able to afford any house in this town & live very well (they probably make 4 times the average salary in this area). Instead they are supporting their kids & their families & just getting by. She retires in 2 years & he will work until he drops. Right now if they were going to sell their house they would have to put 40 to 60 thousand dollars into repairs (because they have let it go downhill so badly). BTW their kids live in a much more expensive area & are more or less coasting thru life. My wife feels sorry for them. I just look at the situation & think, oh well, you did it to yourself. SS was suppose to be one leg of a triple legged stool...the other two was ones own savings and investment and possible pensions by companies..not sure of the % of... My folks were savers...not investors..bank accounts...but it worked for them..or Mom anyway...Dad passed to early..but she had a great retirement.. I'm doing ok too, learned from them though got into the investment end in a way..difference was I was not a person who knew what the depression was as they were...but the fundamentals were there...live with in your means, what ever the neighbors did in expenditures had nothing to do with you...live your own life. It's a simple way to do things, thing is it works.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2011 18:26:43 GMT -5
Sure it works-- IF YOU HAVE MONEY TO SAVE. Just try being a working poor person not on welfare all your life. It's no flipping wonder the welfare rats run their scams.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 10, 2011 19:00:29 GMT -5
It's not some thing you wake up at age 50 and say hey I better get on the stick..you are aaloes some dumb stuff for a while, by 24 or so, the dumb stuff should be over..still some toys of course but something every paycheck away and forgotten... If still getting a nice something on 401's you max it out.. and a few bucks for immediate if needed..and it's steady..
Need a car..why not a nice prime low mileage two/three year old ..save thousands, plus Insurence should also be less...I could go on with a list..still living good but also smart..talking not large wage earners, good wage earners..
steady savings and investing, mkt goes down..buy more..I like funds but if you can learn stocks..nothing deep and speculative..no day trading, just a bit of education and a plan...it will be important in the future..and if your in one of those high wage areas..then live way below your means but still good, and sock it away..
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Post by lakhota on Jun 10, 2011 19:25:51 GMT -5
It's what rich people do after they've raped, pillaged and plundered the poor and middle class.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 10, 2011 19:26:04 GMT -5
A hundred years back people worked till the day they died. Americans have become soft.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 10, 2011 19:26:32 GMT -5
It's what rich people do after they've raped, pillaged and plundered the poor and middle class. Excuse me, that's mighty judgmental of you.
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Jun 10, 2011 19:26:43 GMT -5
MY Dad retired after 30+ years at IBM with a good pension. Started up a process serving service with my step brothers, that he loves. At 78 he is healthy and going strong. I just wonder if those days are behind us now? Even the working 30+ years for one company, the loyalty, stability, etc. All of that seems to have shifted in a huge way.. DH will retire next year after 31 years with the same company. He loved the company/his job for many years, but there was a short period of time that he really wanted to leave (jerk for a boss), but couldn't because he knew that he had too much to lose (the golden handcuffs). I guess these days, without the golden handcuffs no one will have any incentive to stay with a company - actually might be a good thing.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 10, 2011 19:29:56 GMT -5
There was WORK then, angel!! The work is not there now. I'm not expecting anyone to "feel sorry for me", but I am telling you I worked my butt off in the service industry my entire life that I worked, there was no 401K, I am in a generation of women that hooked their retirement to their husbands.. who failed the family, and now you are talking like we are lazy, made bad choices-- when at the time the choices were the GOOD choices?? What do you expect us to do now? Forget it, I can't have this conversation. Did you save when there was work? Not having access to a 401K is no excuse for not saving for the future. I understand unemployment could be a major setback, but you still should have a good amount saved for retirement by now. If you don't, then your current unemployment status isn't really the reason you will have to work until you drop. You will have to work until you drop because you never saved for retirement. As far as the husband thing - how long have you been independent? From the way I've heard you talk it seems as though we are talking a decade or so. Shouldn't you have saved something & planned for your own future during that time? If it was far more recently, then why didn't you get part of his retirement savings in the divorce? I'm not trying to be mean. I just have a hard time falling for the "woe is me" attitude when for the most part where people are in life is a direct result of your past choices & I don't see you as an exception to this. This is exactly what I am talking about. Social Security needs to go away and people need to stand on their own two feet.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2011 19:37:36 GMT -5
I'm glad he stuck it out, dancin. And you, too. Sure takes its toll working somewhere you don't like.. ruined my family, for sure, but the pay off at the end.. if you survive it... is worth the wait. Good job, both of you.
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Jun 10, 2011 19:40:22 GMT -5
This is true, up to a point, Angel. Some of those who find themselves in a difficult position now did have good plans. I agree that there are exceptions to my statement, some people do hit hard times that causes major setbacks. But, I would say the majority that are complaining about being unable to retire weren't saving enough to begin with & then the economy was just the extra push to send them over the edge. One exception would be the person/couple that planned on using the equity in their home for retirement by selling and downsizing. Those people really got screwed.
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Jun 10, 2011 19:45:53 GMT -5
I retired in my late 50's. worst thing I could have done. It drove me crazy. Did not need the money but my mind and body needed the activity. Went back to work and now close to eighty will never retire again. My health and mind is still good. My only afliction is my hearing is not as good as it used to be. Which is to my advantage when the wife starts wanting me to do something I don't want to. My advice is work till the coffin lid closes if you can.
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Jun 10, 2011 19:49:33 GMT -5
Yes, if people bothered to save. But, most choose to live for the moment, which will cost them in the future & often means they have to work until their 80. So true Angel D! But when the time comes & they can't retire don't forget they will be bitching & moaning how SS & the government let them down because they don't get enough money. They of course will never acknowledge that they knew that SS wasn't ever meant to be all of their retirement & they didn't save anything for it (so it's their fault). SS was a poorly designed program to start with & then you have to add in the stupidity of people. Sometimes it drives me crazy. SS was suppose to be one leg of a triple legged stool...the other two was ones own savings and investment and possible pensions by companies..not sure of the % of... My folks were savers...not investors..bank accounts...but it worked for them..or Mom anyway...Dad passed to early..but she had a great retirement.. I'm doing ok too, learned from them though got into the investment end in a way..difference was I was not a person who knew what the depression was as they were...but the fundamentals were there...live with in your means, what ever the neighbors did in expenditures had nothing to do with you...live your own life. It's a simple way to do things, thing is it works. Yep, the three legged stool is what all the retirement seminars preached: Social Security, Pension, and personal savings (tax deferred accounts, taxable accounts, etc.). We went to our first retirement seminar in our early 30s so that "lie" was perpetuated for at least 20-25 years. We didn't believe it and never included social security income in our retirement planning, but now we might need it to pay our health care costs. I think A LOT of people let Madison Avenue get the best of them. There is so much "stuff" that people want, think they deserve that is totally unnecessary to be happy in life, but Madison Avenue did a really good job of convincing people otherwise.
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Jun 10, 2011 19:57:51 GMT -5
I'm glad he stuck it out, dancin. And you, too. Sure takes its toll working somewhere you don't like.. ruined my family, for sure, but the pay off at the end.. if you survive it... is worth the wait. Good job, both of you. krickitt: We are some of the fortunate ones. DH did stick it out and now he'll receive a pension. His first boss (a real sweetheart of a guy) sat DH down when he became eligible to start contributing to the 401k plan (called profit sharing at that time), and talked to DH like he was his son. He told him that it was extremely important to contribute as much as he could. So we began maxing it out before we had a home or a decent car etc. If it were not for that sweet man's advice, DH might not be able to retire next year. Unfortunately, I look back now and realize that I could EASILY have been in your shoes. I gave up a great career to stay home to raise our son. If my DH had ended up being a jerk, I could have been totally screwed.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 10, 2011 20:21:24 GMT -5
Did you save when there was work? Not having access to a 401K is no excuse for not saving for the future. I understand unemployment could be a major setback, but you still should have a good amount saved for retirement by now. If you don't, then your current unemployment status isn't really the reason you will have to work until you drop. You will have to work until you drop because you never saved for retirement. As far as the husband thing - how long have you been independent? From the way I've heard you talk it seems as though we are talking a decade or so. Shouldn't you have saved something & planned for your own future during that time? If it was far more recently, then why didn't you get part of his retirement savings in the divorce? I'm not trying to be mean. I just have a hard time falling for the "woe is me" attitude when for the most part where people are in life is a direct result of your past choices & I don't see you as an exception to this. This is exactly what I am talking about. Social Security needs to go away and people need to stand on their own two feet. LOL, I think you are just here to put up stuff to rile people up..I am not playing, there is a name for that type..slips my mind and I still don't think you pay any Fed Taxs..nothing personal, no diss meant , but my thought..a IMHO.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 10, 2011 20:26:10 GMT -5
SS was suppose to be one leg of a triple legged stool...the other two was ones own savings and investment and possible pensions by companies..not sure of the % of... My folks were savers...not investors..bank accounts...but it worked for them..or Mom anyway...Dad passed to early..but she had a great retirement.. I'm doing ok too, learned from them though got into the investment end in a way..difference was I was not a person who knew what the depression was as they were...but the fundamentals were there...live with in your means, what ever the neighbors did in expenditures had nothing to do with you...live your own life. It's a simple way to do things, thing is it works. Yep, the three legged stool is what all the retirement seminars preached: Social Security, Pension, and personal savings (tax deferred accounts, taxable accounts, etc.). We went to our first retirement seminar in our early 30s so that "lie" was perpetuated for at least 20-25 years. We didn't believe it and never included social security income in our retirement planning, but now we might need it to pay our health care costs. I think A LOT of people let Madison Avenue get the best of them. There is so much "stuff" that people want, think they deserve that is totally unnecessary to be happy in life, but Madison Avenue did a really good job of convincing people otherwise. Sorry it didn't work for you...did for me, two pensions...nothing hugh, but I never put a dime into them, so not bad when you consider what you would need to put away to receive as iinterest to get what i get..plus a thing from the Government..plus the rest.. I was nothing special in income earner..did well lets say..for the time
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Jun 10, 2011 20:27:18 GMT -5
There will be work again!...or collect your SS in India
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 10, 2011 23:29:00 GMT -5
This is exactly what I am talking about. Social Security needs to go away and people need to stand on their own two feet. LOL, I think you are just here to put up stuff to rile people up..I am not playing, there is a name for that type..slips my mind and I still don't think you pay any Fed Taxs..nothing personal, no diss meant , but my thought..a IMHO. Agent provocateur. I don't want to pay any Federal taxes (or state taxes for that matter, or sales tax, or any tax) but I have to as I don't want to go to jail. I do legally shield a lot of my assets and income.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 10, 2011 23:30:04 GMT -5
Yep, the three legged stool is what all the retirement seminars preached: Social Security, Pension, and personal savings (tax deferred accounts, taxable accounts, etc.). We went to our first retirement seminar in our early 30s so that "lie" was perpetuated for at least 20-25 years. We didn't believe it and never included social security income in our retirement planning, but now we might need it to pay our health care costs. I think A LOT of people let Madison Avenue get the best of them. There is so much "stuff" that people want, think they deserve that is totally unnecessary to be happy in life, but Madison Avenue did a really good job of convincing people otherwise. Sorry it didn't work for you...did for me, two pensions...nothing hugh, but I never put a dime into them, so not bad when you consider what you would need to put away to receive as iinterest to get what i get..plus a thing from the Government..plus the rest.. I was nothing special in income earner..did well lets say..for the time Past due pensions are going away too as companies go bankrupt trying to pay them. Witness what happened in Michigan.
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Jun 10, 2011 23:48:08 GMT -5
Pubs are at the bottom of all this. No more pensions, just outsourcing, union busting, pandering to rich and corps. No coincidence, and lots of happy talk. So many misled I know, let's privatize medicare and cut taxes on the rich. Anybody learn anything yet?
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Jun 10, 2011 23:54:46 GMT -5
"Past due pensions are going away too as companies go bankrupt trying to pay them. " Witness pubs deregulating pensions so Corps can borrow from them and ruin them! Great job!!
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hello fromWarsaw
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Post by hello fromWarsaw on Jun 10, 2011 23:59:37 GMT -5
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txbo
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Post by txbo on Jun 11, 2011 0:06:29 GMT -5
Lots of hard working people out here in their 50s or so, angel, that the economy exploded in out faces and wiped out. I was fully prepared to work until I could not work any more. Now that the economy has been wiped out.. what?? People like me that worked their butts off all their lives and don't have a huge wad of money because we are the customer service branch of people-- now we are suddenly WRONG or something?? We never were before, as we drove our cabs, served the food, waited on the 401K class people. The flipping illegals get more respect than we do, and that is no lie. I knew in 2005 that the economy would go into a strong decline. I knew that the housing market was way overvalued and unsustainable and would eventually crash. I did not know that the banks and investment firms where selling worthless paper based on housing. I also knew that many people used their houses as ATM’s and lived way beyond their income. I saw people buy boats and take cruises that I knew did not have earning to support that. The writing was on the wall, it was clear, and I was ready for it. I divested myself of all real-estate holdings with the exception of my residence and reallocated my portfolio. I still lost in my stock holdings, but have recovered all plus during the last two years.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 11, 2011 0:16:40 GMT -5
Pubs are at the bottom of all this. No more pensions, just outsourcing, union busting, pandering to rich and corps. No coincidence, and lots of happy talk. So many misled I know, let's privatize medicare and cut taxes on the rich. Anybody learn anything yet? Let's not privatize Medicare. Let's gut it altogether. You like unions? Witness what happened in the case of Boeing. They went to a non-union state. Want to keep jobs? Bust the unions. Outsourcing is inevitable when the wage difference is so high. Why don't you open a business and run it with high wage US labor? We do need tax cuts for the rich.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 11, 2011 0:17:58 GMT -5
"Past due pensions are going away too as companies go bankrupt trying to pay them. " Witness pubs deregulating pensions so Corps can borrow from them and ruin them! Great job!! You would rather have companies go bankrupt and have both current and former employees lose it all?
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Post by lakhota on Jun 11, 2011 0:25:46 GMT -5
Go bankrupt trying to pay them? They were part of the benefits package in lieu of cash compensation. I get sick of hearing misguided fools talk about pensions, Social Security and Medicare as though they are free. They have been earned.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 11, 2011 0:28:01 GMT -5
Go bankrupt trying to pay them? They were part of the benefits package in lieu of cash compensation. I get sick of hearing misguided fools talk about pensions, Social Security and Medicare as though they are free. They have been earned. Things change. We once were best friends with Iraq. Then we bombed them pretty much back to the stone age. People need to adapt with the times. There is no money to pay pensions, SS, Medicare. So they must be gutted and replaced with tax cuts.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jun 11, 2011 9:51:14 GMT -5
Retirement? What's that?
I suggest you also consider your physical health in your Golden Years in addition to your investments or retirement funds. I was a Fitness Instructor at 24 Hr Fitness and Gold Gym and had several seniors for clients who had recently retired and they all had to fill out a questionnaire. And I was surprised how many were obese, overweight, smoked, drank heavily, and had lousy diets....And then they wondered why they were not seeing any results from the Fitness Program that I designed for them after 30 or 60 days..
One lady( @70+years old) started my program and saw a weight gain after 60 days and said it was because I had her lifting weights and she was ticked off and quit my program......I explained lifting weights was not the culprit but her high fat diet was and her appetite increased with her workouts.. But this lady had been a nurse during her working life and told me she forgot more about diet and exercise than the fitness instructors at Gold's Gym could ever know..
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