Educated Immigrants Outnumber Unskilled Ones

[pepper112765]

Actually, the article is entitled, College-Educated Immigrants Outnumber Unskilled Immigrants, which of course does not fit in the subject box.

Link below:

news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/college-educated-immigrants-outnumber-unskilled-immigrants

Opinions?

[Politically_Incorrect12]

Is this talking about illegal immigrants, or those that come here legally? If it is talking about those who are here legally, it would make sense that college-educated outnumber those who are not. It looks to me like the article is talking about those who come here legally.

From the article:

To qualify for this visa, an immigrant must have a college degree.

And

Experts estimate that more than a fifth of all adults living in the United States without a high school diploma are illegal immigrants. The report mentions that most research suggests that new low-skilled immigrants entering the country can drive down wages for lower-skilled American workers. Brookings researchers also found that low-skilled immigrants are more likely to come from Mexico and have fewer English skills than high-skilled immigrants do.

[pepper112765]

Yes, but also talks about how companies prefer those people over their American counter-parts because they are more "grounded" and don't demand as much with respect to salary.

[Politically_Incorrect12]

Jun 9, 2011 16:41:43 GMT -5 pepper112765 said:

Yes, but also talks about how companies prefer those people over their American counter-parts because they are more "grounded" and don't demand as much with respect to salary.

I saw that too.

[NoMoreLunacy]

Jun 9, 2011 16:41:43 GMT -5 pepper112765 said:

Yes, but also talks about how companies prefer those people over their American counter-parts because they are more "grounded" and don't demand as much with respect to salary.

If Americans want jobs to stay, they have to accept lower salary, period.

[NoMoreLunacy]

Jun 9, 2011 17:33:45 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Jun 9, 2011 17:28:18 GMT -5 NoMoreLunacy said:

If Americans want jobs to stay, they have to accept lower salary, period.

Awww, but like we've heard many times on this very board, "Acceptance of lower pay? It ain't gunna happen!"
We'll see.

It is happening already. Lots of people are under-employed.

[NoMoreLunacy]

Jun 9, 2011 17:37:15 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Jun 9, 2011 17:35:18 GMT -5 NoMoreLunacy said:

It is happening already. Lots of people are under-employed.

Yeah, I know. I'm seeing it too. I also see an end to the minimum wage laws.

That would be great for America.

[handyman2]

The elimination of the minimum wage is a pie in the sky idea.
Also many of the countries that companies moved to for cheap labor are finding it is not working out all of a sudden.
China, Mexico, Tiwain, Indonesia etc are all in the midist of a serge for unionization and a demand for higher pay and benefits. In short that cheap labor market is disappearing and considering shipping it will be just as cheap to make it here. As the old saying-What goes around comes around.

[NoMoreLunacy]

Jun 9, 2011 20:55:22 GMT -5 handyman2 said:

The elimination of the minimum wage is a pie in the sky idea.
Also many of the countries that companies moved to for cheap labor are finding it is not working out all of a sudden.
China, Mexico, Tiwain, Indonesia etc are all in the midist of a serge for unionization and a demand for higher pay and benefits. In short that cheap labor market is disappearing and considering shipping it will be just as cheap to make it here. As the old saying-What goes around comes around.

There will never be any unions in China. Unions are in general bad for any country. They cause employers to relocate. China knows this far better than the USA.

[cme1201]

Chinese law states that Wal-Mart must be unionized, kind of strikes down that theory doesn't it.

[NoMoreLunacy]

Yeah, and the union is part of the Communist Party, so the union members can't do s*** without the approval of the Party. The Party approves very little. Toothless union.

[handyman2]

The Chinese unions are demanding higher wages and a benifit package. It is true that the communist party controls the unions but the union can set the base wage which does increase wages and benefits. The Communist party also benefits from the higher wages. Times they are changing in many third world countries also.

[NoMoreLunacy]

Jun 9, 2011 21:59:31 GMT -5 handyman2 said:

The Chinese unions are demanding higher wages and a benifit package. It is true that the communist party controls the unions but the union can set the base wage which does increase wages and benefits. The Communist party also benefits from the higher wages. Times they are changing in many third world countries also.

Dream on about China. The Communist Party knows that American companies are in China because of only one reason - lower labor costs. They will manage that with an iron fist.

[handyman2]

Nope China is looking to expand their own vast base consumer market. The way to do that is to increase the spendable income of the millions of consumers within their own borders.

[NoMoreLunacy]

Jun 9, 2011 22:20:37 GMT -5 handyman2 said:

Nope China is looking to expand their own vast base consumer market. The way to do that is to increase the spendable income of the millions of consumers within their own borders.

In local currency Chinese workers are paid a lot and can afford Chinese made goods. They can't afford American made goods, because American labor is super expensive. USA wants China to expand it's vast consumer market to buy American made goods. China won't do that till American wages come down to Chinese levels.

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

Psssst! The topic of this thread is the education level of people immigrating to the U.S.

While discussing labor unions in China is interesting, it may be a topic worthy of its own thread (others may want to participate and wouldn't know the discussion was hidden in this immigration thread.)

>>> gently steers thread back on target <<<<

[txbo]

While most people here are posting about the illegals stealing American jobs that not many Americans want. People ignore the big problem of legal foreign workers taking jobs that all Americans want. This is not new; the corporation I worked at 25 years ago hired many foreign workers because we could not find equally qualified local workers. Mainly engineers and IT professionals, during college recruiting we could find many graduates with worthless degrees or degrees that did not meet our needs.

The illegal problem could be solved tomorrow without a costly fences and border patrols. All that is required that no business can hire illegal’s, and make this punishable with high fines and jail for repeat offenders. Most small companies here have illegal’s working for them. If I call a roofer, fence company, lawn service, painting company, tree trimming service and a hundred other companies. I will always get a white salesperson or business owner that will give me an estimate but the workers are mostly illegal with possibly one that can speak some English.

Here in Texas in my city, we don’t want the day workers (illegal) hanging out at stores or railroad tracks. We have a building with a fence near the middle of town that all the workers gather in the morning. Inside is a counter with an English-speaking person that will inform you of the hourly cost for the workers and ask the number of people you want for the day. The police will not harass the workers and contractors drive up all morning long to pickup workers. It’s a very good working system.

The illegal problem will never be solved as long as American companies demand a steady supply of good cheap labor.

[zipity]

If Americans want jobs to stay, they have to accept lower salary, period.

Not really. If we're going ahead with the premise that a market based system doesn't work which allows us to inject all sorts of artificial pressure, which is what you are doing when you ef with the labor market allowing US companies to hire low wage workers and bring them to the US, then you can also mess with the markets those companies sell into. US companies want to under cut the salaries of US based employees, then offer foreign companies to be exempt from all US taxes if they come to the US and employ at least 95% US born workers. While were at it we can put an end to the stupid H1B visa program that's been putting downward pressure on the salaries of US based technology workers.

This is not new; the corporation I worked at 25 years ago hired many foreign workers because we could not find equally qualified local workers.

I believe this statement should end with the words "at the salary level the corporation wanted to spend." Back during the 70s/80's this country's data-centers were filled with US born IT workers. In the early 90s corporations didn't want to pay for Americans who had spent money on degrees so congress helped them out with the H1B visa program. 60-100k somewhat educated foreign workers were allow in per year, many of those stayed. These workers on average worked for 20-40% less than their US born counterparts. What has that meant for the US? We better keep importing IT workers because as I advise every kid that asks, stay away from IT unless you want to live overseas. Stop importing these workers and in 5-10 years you'll see salaries rise and kids pursuing IT degrees again.

Most small companies here have illegal’s working for them. If I call a roofer, fence company, lawn service, painting company, tree trimming service and a hundred other companies. I will always get a white salesperson or business owner that will give me an estimate but the workers are mostly illegal with possibly one that can speak some English.

Absolutely true. I had my house painted last year and a new roof put on this year. My best guess was that every worker except the job foreman was from Central America. You can shop around all you want and you will never find a crew of American born workers for work like that. You want to get people back to work, start taking the immigration laws seriously.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jun 9, 2011 16:35:10 GMT -5 pepper112765 said:

Actually, the article is entitled, College-Educated Immigrants Outnumber Unskilled Immigrants, which of course does not fit in the subject box.

Link below:

news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/college-educated-immigrants-outnumber-unskilled-immigrants

Opinions?

Makes sense to me. Most poor and uneducated can't get here.

However, if you did a measure of immigrants from Mexico- and you included the illegal immigrants in that study, the results would be dramatically different. Remember Jose the sub contractor of the contractor that cleans the grocery store floors? That's 100% of your 12 million (est) illegal immigrants from Mexico right there.

[bean29]

Jun 10, 2011 7:55:04 GMT -5 zipity said:

If Americans want jobs to stay, they have to accept lower salary, period.

Absolutely true. I had my house painted last year and a new roof put on this year. My best guess was that every worker except the job foreman was from Central America. You can shop around all you want and you will never find a crew of American born workers for work like that. You want to get people back to work, start taking the immigration laws seriously.

What does an American look like? I have 4 brother-in-laws that are construction workers. Two were born here, of the other two who were born in Mexico, one is a citizen and the other is a Legal Alien. Please Please Please stop with the thinking that every Hispanic person you look at is an illegal alien. Also please remember that Puerto Rico is a US Possession and Puerto Ricans have the right to reside in the US without becoming citizens.

I agree that the HIB visa program is being abused by employers. My husband has some friends that have an engineering firm. They flat out told him they try to hire engineers from India b/c they will work for a good 20,000 or more/yr less than an American Worker. But I am totally unsure if halting the program is the answer...it may be that Americans just need to accept the lower wages. If companies can not hire in the US for what they can hire for in other countries, what is to stop them from moving their production to a country like India?

[zipity]

Please Please Please stop with the thinking that every Hispanic person you look at is an illegal alien.

In both cases, the roofers and painters were from Guatemala. (i asked them)

...it may be that Americans just need to accept the lower wages.

Unfortunately like our immigration laws the rules behind the H1B visa program are not enforced. The program stipulates that the employer must pay prevailing wage for the occupation and geography as based on American workers with the same qualifications. That's not happening and because it's not enforced it's causing downward salary pressure especially on high tech workers.

[NoMoreLunacy]

Jun 10, 2011 10:39:43 GMT -5 zipity said:

Unfortunately like our immigration laws the rules behind the H1B visa program are not enforced. The program stipulates that the employer must pay prevailing wage for the occupation and geography as based on American workers with the same qualifications. That's not happening and because it's not enforced it's causing downward salary pressure especially on high tech workers.

That's why you still have a few hi tech jobs in the USA, otherwise everything there would have been offshored. Substantial parts are offshored already. Why pay prevailing US wages when you can pay one third of that in India?

[NoMoreLunacy]

Jun 10, 2011 7:55:04 GMT -5 zipity said:

Not really. If we're going ahead with the premise that a market based system doesn't work which allows us to inject all sorts of artificial pressure, which is what you are doing when you ef with the labor market allowing US companies to hire low wage workers and bring them to the US, then you can also mess with the markets those companies sell into. US companies want to under cut the salaries of US based employees, then offer foreign companies to be exempt from all US taxes if they come to the US and employ at least 95% US born workers. While were at it we can put an end to the stupid H1B visa program that's been putting downward pressure on the salaries of US based technology workers.

A market based labor system is predicated on free flow of labor, just as a market based capital system is predicated on the free flow of capital. Immigration laws are the ones that eff with the free labor market, not the other way around. I would end the stupid H1B program too. All qualified people who want to work in the USA for a lower salary should be able to do so without needing an H1B.

We Americans complain when we are not allowed to sell our goods and services to foreign countries. Yet, we don't allow foreign workers to sell their labor to us unencumbered. As a result we first pay higher wages in country, then lose the jobs altogether to offshoring. That needs to be stopped. We need free flow of both capital and labor. That will bring back the prosperity that we had 100 years back.

[fairlycrazy23]

I know that high tech companies have been arguing for a while now that they can't get enough visas

[NoMoreLunacy]

Jun 10, 2011 11:41:22 GMT -5 fairlycrazy23 said:

I know that high tech companies have been arguing for a while now that they can't get enough visas

Exactly. We should make it wide open and allow Hi Tech companies to hire who they want to hire. At least that keeps the job in the USA.

[zipity]

That's why you still have a few hi tech jobs in the USA

There are plenty of hi tech jobs in the USA, they're just not being filled by Americans.

Why pay prevailing US wages when you can pay one third of that in India?

Because they haven't off shored the data centers. But you can bring citizens of India here.

Exactly. We should make it wide open and allow Hi Tech companies to hire who they want to hire. At least that keeps the job in the USA.

It all comes down to what you believe, if you believe that market forces will determine a fair pay scale or not. Companies will always want to cut costs but opening up the door to allow anyone access to American jobs is pretty dangerous when few if any other countries offer the same courtesy to American workers. As I said earlier, if you don't believe in market forces to establish labor costs then don't complain when the government fails to level the playing field against foreign subsidized products.

[Deleted]

There will never be any unions in China. Unions are in general bad for any country. They cause employers to relocate. China knows this far better than the USA.

Chinese law states that Wal-Mart must be unionized, kind of strikes down that theory doesn't it.

No. First you have to look at it from China's point of view. Labor unions there in an American Company means more money for their country (& less for the parent company). That's a plus for China's economy & it doesn't help our economy as much. It's a win win for them.