Want to support US cars, not so much the UAW

[ameiko]

I will probably not be buying for the next several years but I do have new cars on the brain with all of the news stories about how the Big 2.7 are coming back (I upgraded Chrysler from 0.4 to 0.7 after some of their efforts, including the gutsy Eminem 200 Superbowl commercial).

That said, I just can't stand to support the UAW for a number of reasons. Whether it's their support for the Democrats and Obama, that they helped to destroy the automakers with their inefficencies, or their rallying about the public unions in Wisconsin (the same thugs who organize boycotts against businesses who just want to stay out of the whole affair and mind their business).

I just can't do it. What say you?

[marshabar1]

We're having the same problem. Want a new Buick, love the car, can't swallow the big ugly frog that comes with it.

[Deleted]

I own a Toyota. Question-- yeah, I'm uninformed. Are the Toyota makers here union, also?

[ameiko]

May 28, 2011 13:09:06 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

I own a Toyota. Question-- yeah, I'm uninformed. Are the Toyota makers here union, also?

Do you mean the ones here or in Japan? The US ones I am pretty sure are non-union and certainly not UAW.

I'm not anti-union, just anti-UAW. If the UAW wasn't involving itself with the political process, I wouldn't mind but they are and thus I do.

Too bad because by people buying foreign cars, it seems that Detroit has FINALLY gotten the message! The "buy American" crowd should really be thanking those of us who instead snagged higher quality caries and thus forcing Detroit to actually compete and improve.

[hello fromWarsaw]

Funny, now MANAGEMENT designs good cars, the UAW is just fine...and they gave up a lot when they had to. I guess the misled will only be happy when all workers make minimum wage and the rich aren't taxed. Patriots my butt, over the line ideologues...Bachmann/West 2012! ;D Totally out of Touch!!

Brought to you by the same twits who wanted the Big 3 to go out of business...Thank god the Dems got in quick to avert ANOTHER Pub Great Depression...Pfffft!!

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

I literally DO NOT CARE whose label is on the car. I want the best car. I am EXTREME on free trade. It's one area where I'm 1000%, no apologies libertarian. If America can't compete- we shouldn't make cars. We should go and make, or do something else.

[Deleted]

NOTHING says the "Big 3" would have gone under. They could have re-organized and come back stronger than ever. Wasted money. This is the USA-- make your product well, make it according to the needs and wants of the American people, or go under.

[hello fromWarsaw]

A lot of smart people think the whole kit and caboodle would have gone under, as opposed to bought off talking heads (Pubs had nothing to do with it-and nothing happened )- and thanks for the fraud, de-enforcement and the worst recession ever...AND the STUPIDEST wars ever (paid for by China- brilliant!!!!)...

[ameiko]

As always Warsaw, your ignorance is just astounding.

Funny, now MANAGEMENT designs good cars, the UAW is just fine...and they gave up a lot when they had to.

Your words are nonsense. For decades American automakers (so, I guess management) have been shoveling out crap that people do not want to buy. I do not blame the UAW for that. What I DO blame them for is making demands that the market will not support, leading US autoworkers to be uncompetitive in terms of labor costs.

The UAW did finally give up stuff because they had to; either give up something or have nothing. Fortunately they made the right choice but that has nothing to do with my condemnation of them (as well as my lack of support) for the UAW when they enter the political process.

I guess the misled will only be happy when all workers make minimum wage and the rich aren't taxed.

Please point out where I support all autoworker making minimum wage. Let them make as much as the market will bear as far as I am conerned. As for taxes, heck many conservatives like myself support a simple flat tax where EVERYONE pays something and pay in proportion to their income.

No where does that state that the rich should not be taxed, simply that the government should not steal wealth from the producers (seriously, do you think that someone just hands the wealthy money because they like them?) to give it to others which only encourages poverty and dependence.

Patriots my butt, over the line ideologues...Bachmann/West 2012! Totally out of Touch!!

Hey, I'll vote for that ticket although I like Bachman more than West. At least I am confident that West supports America, unlike the Muslim from Kenya.

Brought to you by the same twits who wanted the Big 3 to go out of business...Thank god the Dems got in quick to avert ANOTHER Pub Great Depression...Pfffft!!

I have already pointed out to you and your ilk how the Great Recession was due in large part to Democrats so I will not reiterate. I WILL comment however that the bailouts were sponsored by both Presidents Bush and Obama as well as legislators of both parties.

On a sidenote, what IS it with liberals who think that if the government does not provide, someone will not have it? That had the government not stepped in that the automakes would have shuttered for good? I guess when you're an elitist, you think everyone else is just helpless without your alledged insight and wisdom.

[ameiko]

Patstab, I take exception with your post. I expect silliness from Warsaw but you have a good head on your shoulders and I wish that you had addressed my post instead or just ranting about non issues that neither I nor others raised. As I said, I have no problem with autoworkers making good money as long as the market supports it.

As for Detroit making good cars, I don't see it except for recent and that's only because Detroit finally got it that they needed to up their game substantially. When I was in the market for a car, I wanted a 4 seater coupe or convertible that was either luxury or near luxury and LITERALLY none of the Big 2.7 made one. BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, and Infiniti all had them but not Detroit! I can't buy what they don't have.

Actually, Volvo might have made one but Volvo's are too stodgy and are Swedish anyway. Same with Saab. I would have liked a Caddy CTS Coupe (even though it's too heavy) but they weren't making it at the time and even now Lincoln does not make a coupe. Sad, really.

[handyman2]

Might want to do some research on so called American cars. Like how many are made in another country and shipped in with a Ford label on it? How many parts on todays American cars are actually made in the US? Trurh is there is no more true American cars or Japaneese cars, german Etc They are world cars with an assemblers label on them. My Chevy truck was assembled in Canada and made from parts made in 4 countries, my Ford van has parts from 6 countries.

[mmhmm]

I'm still driving my Saturn. Love that car, and I was so disappointed to see the line dropped. Still, it was made here. That's why I bought it and I'll drive it until it falls a-freaking-part!

[formerexpat]

The majority of union workers are lazy. I don't support laziness with my money, including when buying cars. In my experience, the UAW cars are much worse than their foreign equivalent. I'll take my foreign car that is manufactured in the US by non-union workers any day over the American junk.

I just had to rent a car because my car was in an accident. It was a GMC Acadia. It was a cheap, POS SUV. I'd never buy it. And the rental was a 2011 with just 5k miles on it.

[hello fromWarsaw]

You work in a car factory and see how easy it is...I happen to know cars- and Detroit's problems were not the UNIONS= Pfffft!! Sorely misled...Really silly stuff....
Making really good cars these days

[Deleted]

and Detroit's problems were not the UNIONS= Pfffft!!

Detroit's problems were only a little bit of the unions faults. Detroit's main problem was they were building for looks, not substance. Their cars looked good & the looks changed every 3 to 5 years to stimulate sales. That worked out well because every 3 to 5 years they needed to be replaced because they were falling apart (of course this was 20 years ago). Now days they are still a little behind the power curve. They still change the look of cars to often (needless & expensive thing to do). Where foreign car makers generally take the same basic car & improve it mechanically.

Unions only hand it the problem was to keep demanding more & more money & concessions. That kept the prices up for a car that just couldn't compete quality wise. Also it wasn't just the hourly wage that unions went crazy on. They were also very aggressive about the number of workers needed.

I still remember my FIL talking about having to send out 5 people to repair one thing. Four of them were excess & actually didn't nothing except oversee but all 5 of them had to be paid. Even he (& he retired for 2 different unions) admitted that the unions were the main factor in closing the local iron pellet mill. Their demands & requirements just made it economically impossible to make a profit. (I assume that the CEO of the company was a Republican because rather than operate at a loss, the plant was closed .

[ugonow]

The majority of union workers are lazy. I don't support laziness with my money,

Bull. There are hard workers and lazy workers in evey place of employment,union or non.And in reality there are a lot more lazy non union workers than union workers just by volume so you should probably just keep your wallet in your pocket.

[ameiko]

May 29, 2011 0:33:00 GMT -5 hello fromWarsaw said:

You work in a car factory and see how easy it is...I happen to know cars- and Detroit's problems were not the UNIONS= Pfffft!! Sorely misled...Really silly stuff....
Making really good cars these days

Do you even READ what I write? If so, please point out where in this thread that I wrote anything to support what you are saying.

I will concede, because it was my intent, that *part* of Detroit's problems IS from the unions: their ineffiency and helping to make Detroit uncompetitive on labor costs. Don't like the truth? Too bad: learn to love it.

[reasonfreedom]

May 29, 2011 0:33:00 GMT -5 hello fromWarsaw said:

You work in a car factory and see how easy it is...I happen to know cars- and Detroit's problems were not the UNIONS= Pfffft!! Sorely misled...Really silly stuff....
Making really good cars these days

You might know cars, but I worked with the BIG 3 and the unions. Unions were huge problem and still are, until you get some kind of viable experience maybe you shouldn't spout of useless info. Depending on what plant you were talking about and what job in the plant, some were super easy and others were hard just the same as any other business. Your ability to spout general broad statements are about as pointless as saying that the sun will come up tomorrow. Not even sure why you post except to vent.

[reasonfreedom]

No such thing as U.S. cars though Ameiko. Fully put together here yes there are a few, made with all U.S. parts nope.