Egypt accuses Israel-Brotherhood vis Gaza

[deziloooooo]

To interested readers of this thread, since I am adding articles and comments on this area of interest, Israel, Palastinians, to the same thread, as new articles are published, to read the latest article, the topic of is indicated by the header of the thread , just scroll to the end of the thread to find the latest article of interest posted. This way it keeps the zone from being clogged up with numerouse threads basically on the same subject. Naturally the older posts are still here for those interested in reading them, same basic topics, Israel, Palastinian relations.
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I know the support for Israel is high from most of the posters here, but lets face it, realisticall, we are a nation in trouble financially, the aid to foreign countrys , P many of us off, even those who might have some understanding of , as to the why and importance but Israel does get $3 billion from us this year, though they are spending it back to us, purchasing the new fighter/bomber, the F-35, but still.

The following is a very good article from 2010 that kind of puts it into perspective and for those of us who support the continued good relations , but still mutter under our breath , "Is this damn place really worth it considering how broke we are", it might help and put a smile on our face as we say yep it's worth it.

-------------Admiral Mullen's Visit:

The Mutually Beneficial US-Israel Relations

YnetNews, February 22, 2010


www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3851844,00.
Ambassador (ret.) Yoram Ettinger,
Executive Director of "Second Thought"

The February 2010 visit to Israel by Admiral Mullen, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs-of-Staff, sheds light on the larger context of US-Israel relations, which transcends the Arab-Israeli conflict, leverages Israel's unique capabilities, and benefits both the US and Israel. The visit reaffirms that US policy toward Israel is based, primarily, on regional and global strategic interests and not on domestic politics. US-Israel relations do not resemble a one-way-street (the US gives and Israel receives), but a mutually-beneficial two-way-street.

Admiral Mullen's visit to Israel centered on a series of aggravated mutual threats and on the implication of the expected US withdrawal from Iraq related to those threats: Iran's nuclearization, global Islamic terrorism, domestic and regional war in Iraq, escalation of the ballistic threat, Iran's subversion of the Gulf and the Middle East, Al-Qaeda's entrenchment in Yemen which controls key sea lanes for oil tankers, the war on the Saudi-Yemen border, the intensification of Iranian-Syrian cooperation, the enhanced Middle Eastern profile of Russia and China, the Islamization of Turkey, etc.

The evacuation of US forces from Iraq could trigger a political/military volcano, with boiling lava sweeping Saudi Arabia, the Gulf and Jordan, further deteriorating the region, highlighting Israel's contribution to the national security of its most critical ally, the USA.

For example, in 2010, US special operations forces in Iraq and Afghanistan leverage Israeli battle tactics and 61 year counter-terrorism experience. US Marines benefit from the Israeli-developed "Pioneer" unmanned aerial vehicle, which provides intelligence otherwise unobtainable, preempting terrorists, thus saving many lives. A US special operations colonel told me – in the office of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid – that his battalion benefited in Iraq from Israel's unique contribution in the areas of training, urban warfare, improvised explosive devices (IEDs), car bombs, booby-traps, suicide bombers, roadblocks and checkpoints, interrogation of terrorists and anti-tank missiles.

According to Brig. General Michael Vane, Deputy Chief of Staff at the US Army Training and Doctrine Command, the Israeli experience played a role in defeating terrorists in Iraq's "Sunni Triangle."

According to Senator Daniel Inouye, Chairman of the Appropriations Committee and its Subcommittee on Defense and a veteran of the Intelligence Committee, contends that "Israel's contribution to US military intelligence is greater than all NATO countries combined."

In September 2006, Israel demolished a nuclear plant in Syria, thus dealing a blow to the anti-US Syria-Iran-North Korea axis, while upgrading the posture of deterrence and joint interests of the US and Israel.
'
Largest US aircraft carrier’

In 1982, Israel's air force was the first ever to destroy a Soviet built surface-to-air network. Israel destroyed 23 most advanced Soviet surface-to-air missile batteries, employed by Syria and considered impregnable. Israel's battle tactics and lessons, electronic warfare and other technological innovations were shared with the US, thus tilting the global balance of power in favor of the US.

In 1981, Israel devastated Iraq's nuclear reactor, in defiance of brutal US and international pressure – including a military embargo – thus according the US the conventional option during the 1991 war against Iraq. It spared the US and the world a nuclear confrontation, along with its mega human losses and mega-billion dollar cost.

In 1970, a Soviet proxy, Syria, invaded a US ally, Jordan, aiming to topple the Hashemite regime and activate a pro-Soviet domino scenario into Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States. US forces were overly-involved in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia, but Israel mobilized its military, forcing a Syrian evacuation of Jordan, thus preventing a collapse of pro-US regimes, a setback to US national security, havoc in the Arab oil producing countries and a blow to the US standard of living. Israel's capability of snatching roasting chestnuts out of the fire – with no US involvement – transformed President Nixon into a supporter of enhanced US-Israel strategic cooperation, in spite of the fact that only 12% of US Jews voted for him, and irrespective of severe US-Israel disagreements over the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Former Secretary of State, General Alexander Haig, a former Supreme Commander of NATO, refers to Israel as "the largest, most battle-tested and cost-effective US aircraft carrier, which does not require a single US personnel, cannot be sunk and is located at a most critical area for US national security interests."

If Israel did not exist in the eastern flank of the Mediterranean - adjacent to most critical oil resources and water lanes, in the intersection of Europe, Asia and Africa - the US would have to deploy a few aircraft carriers to the region, along with tens of thousands of military personnel, costing scores of billions of dollars annually and risking involvement in additional regional and international confrontations.

The Jewish State constitutes a battle-proven laboratory, which has improved thousands of US-made military systems and technologies, sharing with the US such improvements, thus enhancing the competitive edge of the US defense industries, expanding US employment and export base, upgrading US national security and saving many US lives and mega billion of dollars in terms of research and development cost. For instance, the current generation of the F-16 includes over 600 modifications, which were introduced by Israel.

If there had been an Israel-like nation in the Persian Gulf, there would not be a need to dispatch hundred of thousands of US military personnel to the region!

The US-Israel strategic cooperation surged meteorically during 1949-1992, despite rocky disagreements over the Arab-Israeli conflict, entirely due to a series of mutual threats and joint interests, which are much more pertinent to US national security. In hindsight, such disagreements have been merely bumps on the road toward unprecedented strategic cooperation. On a rainy day – in the battle against Iran and other threats - Admiral Mullen prefers a "tough nut" over a "punching bag" as an ally!

[Deleted]

Well, if you saw my Bin Laden's last tape thread....... my answer is-- I will never side WITH giving in to terrorists over supporting Israel. Call me weird, but I don't EVER want to be in agreement with Osama, Hamas, Hezbollah, or any other terrorist or terrorist organization..

[marshabar1]

As far as I'm concerned the United States exists to support Israel. And I'm fine with that. Some people see it that way, some people don't, and never the twain shall meet.

[billisonboard]

[glow=red,1,200]Bokononism[/glow]
[glow=blue,1,800]Bokononism[/glow]
[glow=green,2,300]Bokononism[/glow]
[glow=blue,1,800]Bokononism[/glow][glow=red,1,200]Bokononism[/glow]

[deziloooooo]

May 8, 2011 16:24:26 GMT -5 @marshabar1 said:

As far as I'm concerned the United States exists to support Israel. And I'm fine with that. Some people see it that way, some people don't, and never the twain shall meet.

The above article is interesting, it does point out what many in the government , both parties feel, and no not just because of the "Jewish Lobby ".

Strategically in a dangerouse world, few partners , allies one can really depend on today, even the tradional ones, and in todays reality, even the old stand bye ones are so strapped for cash, military options if needed so expensive.

See the problem that NATO, UN the Coalition is having in little Lybia now, just don't have the capability any longer.

Even UK , has cut their defense to the bone including ready combat forces , just lost another Brigade, don't have the $ to afford them.

Israel does stand out as a large aircraft carrier , no sailors or marines there but ready if needed.

I know we have pre positioned supplies there, we use their new state of the art urban training facilities there very heavily where the troops are able to be trained in top notch facilities with all the elecronic monitoring devices to make them more efficient, save their lives, accomplish their missions.

[Deleted]

The area is a disaster. Muslims are burning Christian churches in Egypt right now. Even though it seems MANY Americans hate Christianity with a strange passion, our country is viewed as a Christian nation. Muslims want to kill Christians and Jews. IMO it is as important that we help protect Israel as it is we protect ourselves from this Muslim threat.

[mmhmm]

Hee! You've just made me realize, billis, I haven't read Cat's Cradle in a long time. Gotta go do that again! ;D

[ed1066]

Libs will stay away from this one in droves, as they are a bit touchy about expressing their true feelings toward Israel/Jews right now...however, based on past history, I already know how a lot of them feel...

[deziloooooo]

May 8, 2011 18:15:44 GMT -5 @ed1066 said:

Libs will stay away from this one in droves, as they are a bit touchy about expressing their true feelings toward Israel/Jews right now...however, based on past history, I already know how a lot of them feel...

ed you haven't brought that up in a long time so will just say,don't believe that's true, it's a individual thing.

The above shows that we get back a lot for what we give unlike other places in the world.

They, Israeli's are our allies, the bumps in the road are just that, there are two different agendas here at times and not between individuals but nations, and today with the Saudi's P at us, they are, what is happeng now with the love fest between Fatah and Hamas , and Hamas so far not willing to change their agenda toward Israel, with Syria who knows what, with the change in Egypt, the one true allie for us...Israel, bumps and all, still there.

I believe a lot is going to be going down if this love fest stays together and there is no guarantee , as it gets to the nitty gritty.

The appointed PM , the one the Europeon and us trust, who has revamped the West Bank, the security forces of Fatah, had so much to do with the financial success of the West Bank , it's government functions, is wanted out by both Abbas, thinks he's to populer and Hamas, feel he's to close to the West, less interested in the Palastinian cause. He isn't but is a realist and knows to get support for a Statre has to show stability to the Westerp powers.

Election by September if all goes according to plans, and if Hamas wins, then what..

Lots happening, going to make the Arab Spring look like a quick heat wave that blows away quickly in comparison possible in comparing the two events.

[Deleted]

You read about the ME a lot, Dez. So do I. Everything happening over there right now is going to end in Israel. Gives me chills.

[deziloooooo]

May 8, 2011 18:52:19 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

You read about the ME a lot, Dez. So do I. Everything happening over there right now is going to end in Israel. Gives me chills.

They will take care of them selves, this love fest between the two Political of the Palestinians just might be the opening needed because I never saw them making a peace with out bringing Gaza into it, their are brothers, 1.5 million of them, and they were no going to be able to leave them out In the cold, no matter what the Israeli's wanted , so we'll have to see.

IF Hamas wins the election , becomes the ones in charge of the West Bank and continues with their same agenda against Israel then the Israeli's will know what they are facing , and if Iran gets into there through Hamas then they will really know what they are facing and if the majority of Palestinians support all that, then it will be a cold day in Hades before there is a State that Israel recognizes no matter what the rest of the World thinks.

If Hamas continues with attacks against Israel , then all that new infrastructure and good things built up in the West Bank, will come tumbling down.

[straydog]

May 8, 2011 16:24:26 GMT -5 @marshabar1 said:

As far as I'm concerned the United States exists to support Israel. And I'm fine with that. Some people see it that way, some people don't, and never the twain shall meet.

Agreed. If God above created us as a Judeo-Christian nation to do his business here on earth (and I believe that he did), then we will be blessed by supporting Israel.

Just like what Genesis 12:3 states.

"And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed."

Sometimes I get angry at Israel, but I have to remember to not allow the adversary to temp me, forget myself, and work against God.

[billisonboard]

May 9, 2011 3:55:08 GMT -5 @straydog said:

May 8, 2011 16:24:26 GMT -5 @marshabar1 said:

As far as I'm concerned the United States exists to support Israel. And I'm fine with that. Some people see it that way, some people don't, and never the twain shall meet.

Agreed. If God above created us as a Judeo-Christian nation to do his business here on earth (and I believe that he did), then we will be blessed by supporting Israel.

Just like what Genesis 12:3 states.

"And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed."

Sometimes I get angry at Israel, but I have to remember to not allow the adversary to temp me, forget myself, and work against God.

Your God plays some convoluted games.

[ugonow]

I don't think we have much choice.But I think we need to cut the amount we give them which is way beyond our means if we can't afford medicare and medicaid for our own and must be cut. Also, while I realize we are allies, I also realize they are not the poor innocent victim some want us to believe they are. I also sometimes think they take us and our billions in aid for granted at times...........------------------"Lieberman: U.S. to accept any Israeli policy decision

By Lily Galili and Barak Ravid, Haaretz Correspondents


The Obama Administration will put forth new peace initiatives only if Israel wants it to, said Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman in his first comprehensive interview on foreign policy since taking office.

"Believe me, America accepts all our decisions," Lieberman told the Russian daily Moskovskiy Komosolets.

Lieberman granted his first major interview to Alexander Rosensaft, the Israel correspondent of one of the oldest Russian dailies, not to an Israeli newspaper. The role of Israel is to "bring the U.S. and Russia closer," he declared.

During the interview, Lieberman said Iran is not Israel's biggest strategic threat; rather, Afghanistan and Pakistan are.

This comes after years of Lieberman warning about the growing Iranian threat. Now, he has dropped Tehran to number two, with Iraq coming third. " -------------------

[busymom]

I think Israel has been one of the few countries who has been truly loyal to the U.S.

If we're going to cut funding, let's do it to all the countries who have been disloyal, IMHO.

[billisonboard]

May 9, 2011 8:17:43 GMT -5 busymom said:

I think Israel has been one of the few countries who has been truly loyal to the U.S.

....

Breaking the Taboo on Israel's Spying Efforts on the United States ...Mar 10, 2009 ... Israel's spying on the U.S., however, is a matter of public record, and neither conspiracy nor theory is needed to present the evidence. ...
www.alternet.org/.../breaking_the_taboo_on_israel's_spying_efforts_on_the_united_states/ - Cached - Similar

[ugonow]

I think Israel has been one of the few countries who has been truly loyal to the U.S.

What do you mean by loyal? Not biting the hand that feeds you?We do have common interests,and must maintain a good relationship, but to paint them as saints and innocent victims is wrong,imo.

[busymom]

I expect all countries to spy on us. That's no big surprise. But when the chips are down, the countries that help you (letting you fly over their airspace, letting you fuel up, sharing information, etc.) are the friends you want to keep.

[ugonow]

the countries that help you (letting you fly over their airspace, letting you fuel up, sharing information, etc.

Why wouldn't they when we are fighting their enemy,not to mention the billions we pay to do so.

[deziloooooo]

May 9, 2011 6:30:07 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 9, 2011 3:55:08 GMT -5 @straydog said:

Agreed. If God above created us as a Judeo-Christian nation to do his business here on earth (and I believe that he did), then we will be blessed by supporting Israel.

Just like what Genesis 12:3 states.

"And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed."

Sometimes I get angry at Israel, but I have to remember to not allow the adversary to temp me, forget myself, and work against God.

Your God plays some convoluted games.

Actually Bills, a tongue in cheek response from you I believe, but in reality, to understand all the almighty's actions and doings, really. above our pay grade, some times they are a wonder , for those of faith, best to think there is a purpose, for those with out..best to shake ones head and move on.

[billisonboard]

May 9, 2011 9:56:48 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

May 9, 2011 6:30:07 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Your God plays some convoluted games.

Actually Bills, a tongue in cheek response from you I believe, ...

You believe incorrectly. Very much an honest response.

So God had the East India Tea Company push the British Parliment to increase taxes so....... had the US settlers slaughter the natives ... put Hitler in power ... concentration camps ... had Japan bomb Pearl Harbor ... implanted knowledge of atomic weapons .... D-Day .... United Nations ... Jewish Resistance Movement ... Israel created ... US becomes defender of Israel (good thing he had those tea taxes increased )

[deziloooooo]

My reply to you was a tongue in cheek resonse, giving you the benefit of the doubt, but understiood from whence you come from your post "Your G--", and my only response to your post here is :

"but in reality, to understand all the almighty's actions and doings, really. above our pay grade, some times they are a wonder , for those of faith, best to think there is a purpose, for those with out..best to shake ones head and move on. "

Have to stay with that..

There are some of those of faith who feel the Allmighty gave us the tools to be productive beings, how we use those tools, well, it is up to us. The foundation was built, the mind to reason and figure things out was a blessing given to us, but for the way we use it, what we accomplish, or not, that is left to us.
The Allmighty has more important work to do in the cosmos , babysitting is not on his agenda , part of his job discription, and all those little tidbits you brought up, really now , what do you want from the Allmighty, be sent to the corner, a time out?

[straydog]

May 9, 2011 10:16:57 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 9, 2011 9:56:48 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Actually Bills, a tongue in cheek response from you I believe, ...

You believe incorrectly. Very much an honest response.

So God had the East India Tea Company push the British Parliment to increase taxes so....... had the US settlers slaughter the natives ... put Hitler in power ... concentration camps ... had Japan bomb Pearl Harbor ... implanted knowledge of atomic weapons .... D-Day .... United Nations ... Jewish Resistance Movement ... Israel created ... US becomes defender of Israel (good thing he had those tea taxes increased )

Well if you take the Bible seriously like I do, then you will know that there is also a devil that God created who rebelled against him and now seeks to undermine his work.

If you choose not to believe that, then fine. God gives everyone their own free will to believe what they want to.

As far as Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and the rest of the mass murderers that have come and gone throughout history, I do believe that these people were possessed by the devil. And while God may use the results of their actions for his own purposes, he did not cause them to commit the wrongs that they performed. Like I said, God gave mankind free will, and mankind can do what he chooses with it.

[cme1201]

then you will know that there is also a devil that God created who rebelled against him and now seeks to undermine his work.

This has always been the crux of religion for me, if an angel was created only to serve (no free will as that was given to man) how did Lucifer secumb to pride?

[straydog]

May 9, 2011 14:17:42 GMT -5 cme1201 said:

then you will know that there is also a devil that God created who rebelled against him and now seeks to undermine his work.

This has always been the crux of religion for me, if an angel was created only to serve (no free will as that was given to man) how did Lucifer secumb to pride?

Yes they were created to serve, but I also believe that they too were given their free will to choose - as to test their loyalty. When the devil rebelled, he also took many angels with him.

[deziloooooo]

May 9, 2011 14:07:06 GMT -5 @straydog said:

May 9, 2011 10:16:57 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

You believe incorrectly. Very much an honest response.

So God had the East India Tea Company push the British Parliment to increase taxes so....... had the US settlers slaughter the natives ... put Hitler in power ... concentration camps ... had Japan bomb Pearl Harbor ... implanted knowledge of atomic weapons .... D-Day .... United Nations ... Jewish Resistance Movement ... Israel created ... US becomes defender of Israel (good thing he had those tea taxes increased )

Well if you take the Bible seriously like I do, then you will know that there is also a devil that God created who rebelled against him and now seeks to undermine his work.

If you choose not to believe that, then fine. God gives everyone their own free will to believe what they want to.

As far as Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and the rest of the mass murderers that have come and gone throughout history, I do believe that these people were possessed by the devil. And while God may use the results of their actions for his own purposes, he did not cause them to commit the wrongs that they performed. Like I said, God gave mankind free will, and mankind can do what he chooses with it.

well put and also, some of faith believe the Almighty decided early on in it's great work, it was NOT going to be a baby sitter, thus it's gift of a mind, rational thought and after a bit of prodding, to know right from wrong, that would suffice and if not, well it has a lot yet to do. so...it's really up to us to solve the little things.

[straydog]

May 9, 2011 14:30:57 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

May 9, 2011 14:07:06 GMT -5 @straydog said:

Well if you take the Bible seriously like I do, then you will know that there is also a devil that God created who rebelled against him and now seeks to undermine his work.

If you choose not to believe that, then fine. God gives everyone their own free will to believe what they want to.

As far as Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and the rest of the mass murderers that have come and gone throughout history, I do believe that these people were possessed by the devil. And while God may use the results of their actions for his own purposes, he did not cause them to commit the wrongs that they performed. Like I said, God gave mankind free will, and mankind can do what he chooses with it.

well put and also, some of faith believe the Almighty decided early on in it's great work, it was NOT going to be a baby sitter, thus it's gift of a mind, rational thought and after a bit of prodding, to know right from wrong, that would suffice and if not, well it has a lot yet to do. so...it's really up to us to solve the little things.

Thanks.

[deziloooooo]

For the readers who might be saying to them selves, "Me thinks I have been on this thread before but the header seems different, your not nuts, you may have been here before, the thread , and the header is different.

What I am posting seems to go along with the first post, the qustion of Israel being important to the US, which I think has been answered in the positive for most , and those who disagree,. well a chance to express the disagreement,

However there is another question that some supporters of Israel may also have at times that makes them uncomfortable.
I grant you when it comes to Israel, with all the good feelings and support to the small State nothing ever seems easy.

There are questions , actions, doings regarding the State that come up which do make at times , the biggest supporter uneasy at because of their, Israel policies , verbals and even their actions at time.

Basically leaving the supporter asking the question , "Do I really need this crap ?"

One of those that for some might be a bit of a quandry is the repeated mantra that Israel has to be for all time a Jewish State.

Why?

Their greratest friend and ally, with out the support of, who knows what might have been, , the U.S. is not a CHRISTIAN nation, officially, loudly proclaimed, printed on their national flag.

Granted, it is populated by, in the hugh majority , Christians in the different Christian denominations and that Christianity is important in many actions of the country, but it is not a self proclaimed Christian country, in fact most of the nations of the world seem to not identify with any religion as they being a xyz nation, the xyz being what ever religion the majority of the populace are members of.

Yet here is this little, and it is tiny, nation State , Israel proclaiming that it not only is it a State for Jews, but it is and must remain so , a Jewish State.

Basically it is the history of those Jews, how they have been perceived through time, treated, sometimes their own worst enemy by staying seperate from, but definitly being treated differently because of who they say they are .

Over the years I have wondered how what happened in Europe in the late 30's and up to the end of the war in 1945, how this could have happened, really.

For me, I never could get a handle of how all this happened, the slaughter of , for what happened then , just made no sense.

Oh I knew the details, the history of, the conference in that mansion when it was decided, "Final Solution ", Heinrich was there, Himmler, Eichmann and all the rest. The camps, the gas crystals, first the lorries with the gas, but it never answered the question, of how such a event could happen.



I have visited Dachau in my youth, I have been to Israel more then once, three times actually, been to the Holocaust Museum in Washington a few years ago on a visit to Washington but still, the question, How could it and why did all this take place.



I came across a article written by the Mossad agent who was in on the capture of Adolf Eichman a few years ago , and for me, it answered it all, and it's in one short sentence , in a paragraph at the end of the article, why it happened and how it could happen and it also answered for me why Israel as a Jewish State is so important.

It is a long article but by a mossad agent so by one of those who has been there, and a real good read, seriously,
so for those interested , I do recommend it.

Before I post it, some might say but today is different, Israel is strong, no more pograms in Russia, no Cossacks with sabers let loose to terrorize, no Ghettos, America is the greatest friend toward the nation , the Jews , that they ever had, and it is true, but as in all things, things can change, different priorities, different problems.

S*it happens , mind sets change and when times are bad , as they are now, attitudes seem to change, people look around for some one to blame, as now, see the anti semetic increases in Europe and there are so few Jews left there now, a bit over 2 million I think, yet still the blame , the negtive feelings, thus possible why Israel has to be for all time, a Jewish Nation..

[deziloooooo]

Article of the Mosad agent who was in on the capture of Adolph Eichman
------------------------------------------------------------------
www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/Eichmann/Malkin251000.html
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[Click on link to read the article
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A Nazi hunter remembers --

The man who arrested Adolf Eichmann learned much about human nature in long talks with his captive

By Tim Madigan
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

ON a frigid winter evening in 1960, Israeli secret agent Peter Z. Malkin tackled Adolf Eichmann outside the Nazi war criminal's home in Buenos Aires, Argentina, then helped colleagues hustle Eichmann into a waiting car. Two weeks later, Eichmann, Adolf Hitler's chief architect of the Holocaust, sat in an Israeli prison cell, awaiting his trial for war crimes and his eventual hanging in 1962.

For most of the next three decades, Malkin, a high-ranking operative in Israel's famed intelligence service, the Mossad, was forced to hold his tongue about his role in Eichmann's capture. Such broad public acclaim would jeopardize his intelligence work, so not even relatives knew. Then, when Malkin retired and finally broke his silence in the 1990 memoir 'Eichmann in My Hands,' he was adamant with his editor on this point: He would not use the word "monster" to describe the man he captured. For this, Malkin's reasoning was simple.

"The problem here is with human beings, not with monsters, not with animals," Malkin, who had long, private conversations with Eichmann in an Argentina safe house after his capture, said in a recent telephone interview. "The human being does things that even the monster does not do, because the human being is more sophisticated. The problem is not how the monster did it, but how a human being did it."

Such is the grim reality that makes Eichmann and the Holocaust stories eternally relevant, says Malkin, who will describe his experiences in a Sunday-evening lecture for the Dallas Holocaust Center. The event, at Congregation Shearith Israel in Dallas, will also feature an exhibit of Malkin's paintings. (An acclaimed artist, Malkin sketched Eichmann on a South American tourist guidebook while the two were alone in Argentina.)

"You close the circle when you define someone as a monster," Malkin continued. "The important thing is not that you leave with an answer, but with the questions. How could this happen? What is he? I don't give you the answer. I leave you with the questions."

One reason for that, Malkin says, is that after a half-century, the answers still elude him, too."

[deziloooooo]

The paragraph, the sentence...for me so important and answers why Israel has to be a Jewish State , and for those who are at times uncomfortable when they hear that said, hopefully the above and the rereading of the paragraph and the one line will not only have you understand why, but feel more comfortable whan you hear the "Jewish State ", has to be such, proclaimed.
-----------------------------------------------------

But the hours of discussion only added to the mystery of evil, Malkin says. Eichmann repeatedly denied he had been involved in the Holocaust deaths, arguing that he had been only responsible for transporting the victims to the camps. He argued he was just a good soldier following orders.

"It was like he lived under a wall of glass," Malkin remembered. "I would talk, and he would cover himself under that. He had to do his duty. He was a soldier just as I was a soldier. I said, 'But Mr. Eichmann, I came to capture you and bring you to trial. I didn't come to kill you. You didn't give a chance to any child.' He said, 'I never killed anybody. I was just responsible for transportation.' "

In the most bewildering and infuriating exchange, Malkin told Eichmann of Fruma's son, the Auschwitz victim who much resembled Eichmann's own boy.

"I thought the best way to express the Holocaust was not by talking about 6 million Jews, but by comparing the love of his son to another small boy."

Malkin's memoir described the exchange this way:

"'Aba. Ima' Do those [words] ring a bell?" Malkin asked Eichmann.

"I don't really remember," Eichmann replied. "What do they mean?"

"'Daddy. Mommy,"' Malkin answered. "It's what Jewish children scream when they're torn from their parents' arms. My sister's boy, my favorite playmate, he was just your son's age. Also blond and blue-eyed, just like your son. And you killed him."

"Yes," Eichmann replied finally. "But he was Jewish, wasn't he?"
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For me that says it all, "But he was Jewish wasn't he ", why Israel has to be a State for Jews, a "Jewish State "

Granted a place of justice, protection , advancement , tolerence , safety, freedoms , all good and positive things , equality, for all who reside ther but still a "Jewish State"