TN GOP lawmaker says first-cousins should be allowed to marr

[Tennesseer]

GOP lawmaker says first-cousins should be allowed to marry because gays are

Far-right Republican Rep. Gino Bulso held up a bill in the Tennessee legislature on Thursday that would have outlawed first cousin marriage with a surprising argument: if gay first cousins can get married, why not straight ones?

“Is there a public health issue with a male marrying a male first cousin? Obviously, I think the answer is no,” Bulso said, as his fellow lawmakers looked on slack-jawed.

House Bill 2041 was sponsored by Rep. Darren Jernigan (D), who explained first-cousin marriage remains legal in Tennessee because of a 1960 decision by the Tennessee attorney general that marriage between first cousins doesn’t violate a statute prohibiting marriage between relatives.

“I’m hoping in 2024 we can close this loophole,” Jernigan said.

Bulso introduced an amendment to the bill that would have made an exception for cousin-couples if they received counseling from a genetic counselor licensed by the board of medical examiners.

“There’s an additional risk, but it’s not as significant as some might be led to believe,” Bulso said of possible birth defects among inbred children.

Bulso cited the fact that his own grandparents were first cousins as he advocated for the change.

But it was his Obergefell argument that left fellow legislators on the House floor incredulous.

Rest of article here: GOP lawmaker says first-cousins should be allowed to marry because gays are

[busymom]

So, the South is advocating for more children with birth defects.  Nice.  I'll bet they don't add any funding to help these children that are produced by the marriage of first cousins.  Just when I think the South can't sink any lower.


So, how much longer before women and non-white folks aren't allowed to own property?  Just asking...  

[billisonboard]

Apr 13, 2024 11:01:37 GMT -5 busymom said:

So, the South is advocating for more children with birth defects.  Nice.  I'll bet they don't add any funding to help these children that are produced by the marriage of first cousins.  Just when I think the South can't sink any lower.


So, how much longer before women and non-white folks aren't allowed to own property?  Just asking...  

FWIW: Tennessee currently allows first cousin marriage so the GOP lawmaker is actually advocating for continuing the present level of birth defects, i.e. representing his current constituents.

[busymom]

I think they need to check the family trees of folks like Lauren Boebert and Marjorie Greene, to name just a couple.  Let's just say I have questions.  

[chiver78]

Apr 13, 2024 11:14:10 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 13, 2024 11:01:37 GMT -5 busymom said:

So, the South is advocating for more children with birth defects.  Nice.  I'll bet they don't add any funding to help these children that are produced by the marriage of first cousins.  Just when I think the South can't sink any lower.


So, how much longer before women and non-white folks aren't allowed to own property?  Just asking...  

FWIW: Tennessee currently allows first cousin marriage so the GOP lawmaker is actually advocating for continuing the present level of birth defects, i.e. representing his current constituents.

and himself - "Bulso cited the fact that his own grandparents were first cousins as he advocated for the change."

[swamp]

Apr 13, 2024 11:52:57 GMT -5 busymom said:

I think they need to check the family trees of folks like Lauren Boebert and Marjorie Greene, to name just a couple.  Let's just say I have questions.  

Their trees have no branches. 

[teen persuasion]

Apr 13, 2024 11:52:57 GMT -5 busymom said:

I think they need to check the family trees of folks like Lauren Boebert and Marjorie Greene, to name just a couple.  Let's just say I have questions.  

Well, Lauren Boebert, at least, has no clue who her father might be.

Unfortunately I can't remember where I read that bit about her background. Her mom married some guy later, he was definitely not the father, but turned out to be abusive, so mom left him and they moved away quick to escape. The whole jist of the article was why Lauren Boebert  was the way she was.

[djAdvocate]

Apr 13, 2024 11:01:37 GMT -5 busymom said:

So, the South is advocating for more children with birth defects.  Nice.  I'll bet they don't add any funding to help these children that are produced by the marriage of first cousins.  Just when I think the South can't sink any lower.


So, how much longer before women and non-white folks aren't allowed to own property?  Just asking...  

i had a thing for my first cousin, so i researched the SHIT out of this issue as a young adult.

there is no evidence that marrying your first cousin increases your chance of birth defects over a non-first-cousin.  the genetic factors in a given population will prevail.

so, yeah.  this old mythology dies hard, but that is just what it is.

[haapai]

Apr 13, 2024 23:04:10 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Apr 13, 2024 11:01:37 GMT -5 busymom said:

So, the South is advocating for more children with birth defects.  Nice.  I'll bet they don't add any funding to help these children that are produced by the marriage of first cousins.  Just when I think the South can't sink any lower.


So, how much longer before women and non-white folks aren't allowed to own property?  Just asking...  

i had a thing for my first cousin, so i researched the SHIT out of this issue as a young adult.

there is no evidence that marrying your first cousin increases your chance of birth defects over a non-first-cousin.  the genetic factors in a given population will prevail.

so, yeah.  this old mythology dies hard, but that is just what it is.

I hate to say that I agree with you but what you are saying pretty much squares with what I've read.  That is, the offspring of a sexual relationship between persons that share about one quarter of their DNA don't have astronomical risks of birth defects.  The risk does increase but it increases from such a low probability that it might not be worth fussing too much about.

On the other hand, when you have multiple cycles of marriages between cousins the risks can go up a lot and infertility and infant deaths increase.   The title of "cousin" can lose its meaning as a predictor of consanguinity when such couplings become common.  You can check out the Habsburgs for an extreme example of this, although it has to be mentioned that the Habsburgs were definitely extreme.  They not only had an insane level of consanguineous marriages, but they also resisted letting anyone who was not already related to them marry into the family. 

ETA:  I'd love to ask a genetic counselor whether the tragic story of the Habsburgs was a result of too much inbreeding or too little on-boarding. 

[djAdvocate]

Apr 14, 2024 14:02:41 GMT -5 haapai said:

Apr 13, 2024 23:04:10 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i had a thing for my first cousin, so i researched the SHIT out of this issue as a young adult.

there is no evidence that marrying your first cousin increases your chance of birth defects over a non-first-cousin.  the genetic factors in a given population will prevail.

so, yeah.  this old mythology dies hard, but that is just what it is.

I hate to say that I agree with you but what you are saying pretty much squares with what I've read.  That is, the offspring of a sexual relationship between persons that share about one quarter of their DNA don't have astronomical risks of birth defects.  The risk does increase but it increases from such a low probability that it might not be worth fussing too much about.

On the other hand, when you have multiple cycles of marriages between cousins the risks can go up a lot and infertility and infant deaths increase.   The title of "cousin" can lose its meaning as a predictor of consanguinity when such couplings become common.  You can check out the Habsburgs for an extreme example of this, although it has to be mentioned that the Habsburgs were definitely extreme.  They not only had an insane level of consanguineous marriages, but they also resisted letting anyone who was not already related to them marry into the family. 

ETA:  I'd love to ask a genetic counselor whether the tragic story of the Habsburgs was a result of too much inbreeding or too little on-boarding. 

i think anyone who is marrying someone that has genetic risks should have genetic counseling.  ultimately, it is up to them.  there are lots of genetic diseases out there.  the important thing is for consenting adults to assess the risks and decide whether it is worth it for them.

cousin marriage is one of those things.  in my case, it was a first cousin once removed.  the risk was pretty much exactly the same.  but she rightly pointed out the family complications, and i backed off.  you can't divorce your family.

[thyme4change]

Im fine with it - but they should be educated in getting genetic analysis to see if they are both carrying some recessive gene that would cause a birth defect.

If the only problem with cousins marrying is babies with birth defects, banning their marriage isn’t going to stop that. Babies come from something other than the marriage document.

[happyhoix]

They’ve also banned chemtrails:

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68716894

Cause you know - they poison everything…..

[Tennesseer]

Apr 15, 2024 18:24:02 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

They’ve also banned chemtrails:

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68716894

Cause you know - they poison everything…..

On the social media site NextDoor, some local Memphis crazy people were talking about how the chemtrails from commercial jets are poisoning us Tennessee citizens and how the state should ban all aircraft over it. I guess they wanted to shut down all the commrcial airports in the state.

I had to go into that conversation and tell them what the jets in the sky are ejecting from their engines are moisture condensation trails. And it is not called chemtrails but contrails. Posted a link about the difference between chemtrails and contrails.

Then I posted the picture below I took from my backyard early one July morning a year ago showing all the jet contrails that flew over our area eariler that day and we are all still alive. Upper level winds that morning were slight at best and did not breakup the contrails from commerical air traffic over Memphis.

Photo taken from my backyard on a July morning and looking east.

[happyhoix]

Apr 15, 2024 20:37:38 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 15, 2024 18:24:02 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

They’ve also banned chemtrails:

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68716894

Cause you know - they poison everything…..

On the social media site NextDoor, some local Memphis crazy people were talking about how the chemtrails from commercial jets are poisoning us Tennessee citizens and how the state should ban all aircraft over it. I guess they wanted to shut down all the commrcial airports in the state.

I had to go into that conversation and tell them what the jets in the sky are ejecting from their engines are moisture condensation trails. And it is not called chemtrails but contrails. Posted a link about the difference between chemtrails and contrails.

Then I posted the picture below I took from my backyard early one July morning a year ago showing all the jet contrails that flew over our area eariler that day and we are all still alive. Upper level winds that morning were slight at best and did not breakup the contrails from commerical air traffic over Memphis.

Photo taken from my backyard on a July morning and looking east.

You maybe the only rational Tennesseer.

[happyhoix]

Actually I’m glad they are busy with chem trails and marrying cousins. Think about the kind of mischief they could create if they really focused on governing.

[Tennesseer]

Apr 15, 2024 21:13:04 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Actually I’m glad they are busy with chem trails and marrying cousins. Think about the kind of mischief they could create if they really focused on governing.

We are about to start arming school teachers. A disaster waiting to happen.

When the guns and teachers issue was being discussed in the state's chambers there were some protesters in the upper balcony trying to drown out the discussion on the House floor. Some person reading the article about it tried to compare it to the J-6 insurrection. Called it the Democratic party insurrection. Zero comparison to it.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 13, 2024 21:48:02 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Apr 13, 2024 11:52:57 GMT -5 busymom said:

I think they need to check the family trees of folks like Lauren Boebert and Marjorie Greene, to name just a  couple.  Let's just say I have questions.   

Well, Lauren Boebert, at least, has no clue who her father might be.

Unfortunately I can't remember where I read that bit about her background. Her mom married some guy later, he was definitely not the father, but turned out to be abusive, so mom left him and they moved away quick to escape. The whole jist of the article was why Lauren Boebert  was the way she was.

I think I saw her father in a tree in Vietnam last week.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Or maybe it was Cambodia…..

[happyhoix]

Apr 15, 2024 21:20:56 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 15, 2024 21:13:04 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Actually I’m glad they are busy with chem trails and marrying cousins. Think about the kind of mischief they could create if they really focused on governing.

We are about to start arming school teachers. A disaster waiting to happen.

When the guns and teachers issue was being discussed in the state's chambers there were some protesters in the upper balcony trying to drown out the discussion on the House floor. Some person reading the article about it tried to compare it to the J-6 insurrection. Called it the Democratic party insurrection. Zero comparison to it.

I saw a bit of that on tv - people with signs standing in the balcony chanting- no, not like J6 at all.

[Opti]

Apr 15, 2024 20:37:38 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 15, 2024 18:24:02 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

They’ve also banned chemtrails:

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68716894

Cause you know - they poison everything…..

On the social media site NextDoor, some local Memphis crazy people were talking about how the chemtrails from commercial jets are poisoning us Tennessee citizens and how the state should ban all aircraft over it. I guess they wanted to shut down all the commrcial airports in the state.

I had to go into that conversation and tell them what the jets in the sky are ejecting from their engines are moisture condensation trails. And it is not called chemtrails but contrails. Posted a link about the difference between chemtrails and contrails.

Then I posted the picture below I took from my backyard early one July morning a year ago showing all the jet contrails that flew over our area eariler that day and we are all still alive. Upper level winds that morning were slight at best and did not breakup the contrails from commerical air traffic over Memphis.

Photo taken from my backyard on a July morning and looking east.

That's a wild pic. 

[Tennesseer]

Apr 16, 2024 6:01:15 GMT -5 Opti said:

Apr 15, 2024 20:37:38 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

On the social media site NextDoor, some local Memphis crazy people were talking about how the chemtrails from commercial jets are poisoning us Tennessee citizens and how the state should ban all aircraft over it. I guess they wanted to shut down all the commrcial airports in the state.

I had to go into that conversation and tell them what the jets in the sky are ejecting from their engines are moisture condensation trails. And it is not called chemtrails but contrails. Posted a link about the difference between chemtrails and contrails.

Then I posted the picture below I took from my backyard early one July morning a year ago showing all the jet contrails that flew over our area eariler that day and we are all still alive. Upper level winds that morning were slight at best and did not breakup the contrails from commerical air traffic over Memphis.

Photo taken from my backyard on a July morning and looking east.

That's a wild pic. 

Here's another cell phone photo I took from the front of my home looking east. A lot of the air traffic that morning was in and out of Atlanta (in the far distance near the horizon) which is about an hour's flight time from Memphis. I liked the geometric angles of the contrails almost above my head.

[djAdvocate]

Apr 15, 2024 21:20:56 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 15, 2024 21:13:04 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Actually I’m glad they are busy with chem trails and marrying cousins. Think about the kind of mischief they could create if they really focused on governing.

We are about to start arming school teachers. A disaster waiting to happen.

When the guns and teachers issue was being discussed in the state's chambers there were some protesters in the upper balcony trying to drown out the discussion on the House floor. Some person reading the article about it tried to compare it to the J-6 insurrection. Called it the Democratic party insurrection. Zero comparison to it.

i believe there was $6M in damages on J6, and half a dozen fatalities.  

how many dollars in damages for the protests in the chambers?  how many fatalities?

[Tennesseer]

Apr 16, 2024 11:21:52 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Apr 15, 2024 21:20:56 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

We are about to start arming school teachers. A disaster waiting to happen.

When the guns and teachers issue was being discussed in the state's chambers there were some protesters in the upper balcony trying to drown out the discussion on the House floor. Some person reading the article about it tried to compare it to the J-6 insurrection. Called it the Democratic party insurrection. Zero comparison to it.

i believe there was $6M in damages on J6, and half a dozen fatalities.  

how many dollars in damages for the protests in the chambers?  how many fatalities?

$0 & $0.

[hurley1980]

My Ancestry.com tree has 2 first cousins that married each other back in the late 1700s.  That so far is the only slightly interesting thing i have found on it, whch is disappointing because I have traced back to the late 1600s.  I know it was not unusual at the time though, so that make it even less interesting. 

I guess I don't see an issue if first cousins want to marry, as long as they get genetic consulting, and if they are likely to have a child with birth defects, I would hope they would adopt instead.  

The whole arguement bringing gay men into it is rather stupid though....

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

Apr 16, 2024 12:33:00 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

My Ancestry.com tree has 2 first cousins that married each other back in the late 1700s.  That so far is the only slightly interesting thing i have found on it, whch is disappointing because I have traced back to the late 1600s.  I know it was not unusual at the time though, so that make it even less interesting. 

I guess I don't see an issue if first cousins want to marry, as long as they get genetic consulting, and if they are likely to have a child with birth defects, I would hope they would adopt instead.  

The whole arguement bringing gay men into it is rather stupid though....

It is important for some Republicans to bring out the various boogeymen from time to time.

[haapai]

Apr 16, 2024 12:33:00 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

I guess I don't see an issue if first cousins want to marry, as long as they get genetic consulting, and if they are likely to have a child with birth defects, I would hope they would adopt instead.  

Genetic counseling may be helpful for avoiding having a child with birth defects or genetic diseases.  We've learned a lot about them by studying the children. 

We know a whole lot less about genetic conditions that prevent a viable pregnancy. 

It's the human version of an old b-school story.  During WWII the Allies had determined that they had the oomph to put a little bit more armor on their planes.  To figure out where to put it, they started studying planes that were landing in Great Britain with damage to them.  The thought was, if we can identify where these planes get shot up, we can put the extra armor there.  They mapped damaged planes extensively and presented the results to the muckety-mucks.  One of the generals read the report and told the persons presenting it, "Congratulations!  You have made a perfect map of where we do not need to place additional armor.  You've been studying the planes that made it back to England.  The planes that we need to study are at the bottom of the English Channel." 

[Tiny]

From the article, after hearing Bulso's objections to the change to not allow first cousins to marry  this happened: 

Within moments, Democrats and Republicans alike voted to table Bulso’s poorly conceived amendment.



The bill went on to pass overwhelmingly. Bulso voted no.

I'm guessing Bulso was using this opportunity to campaign for getting re-elected....