thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 18, 2011 17:38:27 GMT -5
Stats said this in the thread about home ownership.
I don't believe it. The 70's were clearly tumultuous economic times. The 80's included a huge real estate bust (here in Phoenix) along with the crumbling of the savings and loan industry. The 90's had the new economy and the dot-com boom, followed by all kinds of fallout from that. I was laid off 3 times during the 90's, and experienced all kinds changes in economic conditions. Granted that wasn't 3 decades ago (but oh, lord, it is coming close.)
I know that this economy is worse than anything I've seen in my lifetime - but I can't help but think that young people today feel like we had it easy, and they have all new rules that are so much less stable than we had.
Do you believe things are substantially more fluid than they were 20 or 30 years ago?
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Apr 18, 2011 17:41:31 GMT -5
The economy today is global. In the 70s, 80s and even 90s, what India and China were doing was not even on the radar.
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stats45
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Post by stats45 on Apr 18, 2011 17:46:46 GMT -5
I think more people (particularly middle and upper-middle class workers) are working for companies (or themselves) where global markets and demand are a more central part of their business decisions. Because of this, transfer between major cities and countries is common in a way that it wasn't (as much) even thirty years ago.
Add that to changes in the global division of labor and certain jobs that make more sense to places in developing countries, and you have a much different labor market than only a generation or two before.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Apr 18, 2011 18:02:52 GMT -5
I think you're kind of looking at it too much from a recent recession perspective. As mentioned globalization can not be emphasized enough. I work for a privately owned company that is barely a decade old. We've got offices in 3 countries and I deal with people in all 3 regularly.
People in their 20's and 30's right now are quite a bit different from those a few decades ago for various reasons. It's a well known fact that Gen Y and Gen X'ers have little loyalty to their employers. By this I don't mean we lie, steal and cheat rather many of us know we could be out of a job at any time. I'm not going to act like it's a contest and younger generations are better at something than older ones but I do think you have to be more mobile and realize that in today's day and age nothing is a given. Most people my age aren't counting on social security for much of anything. For some older generations that could be a large chunk of their retirement.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 18, 2011 18:10:55 GMT -5
Well - nobody my age is counting on social security - and it is a good thing - because we are about to get raped on the whole Medicare thing. So, that isn't a brilliant observation that the 20-somethings just came up with. Us 40 year olds are out, too.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Apr 18, 2011 18:16:11 GMT -5
Do you believe things are substantially more fluid than they were 20 or 30 years ago? I don't, but I'm probably in the minority on that within my generation.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Apr 18, 2011 18:22:04 GMT -5
Well - nobody my age is counting on social security - and it is a good thing - because we are about to get raped on the whole Medicare thing. So, that isn't a brilliant observation that the 20-somethings just came up with. Us 40 year olds are out, too. I guess it's a matter of who you know then. I know some 40 and early 50 somethings that have absolutely nothing saved for retirement that are going to be heavily dependent on SS. Plenty of boomers unfortunately are way underfunded as far as 401K's go. Reagardless as I said it's not a contest and I'm not trying to say one generation is better than another. Every generation learns sooner or later that you can and will get screwed at some point.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2011 18:29:43 GMT -5
I think the 20-somethings have it much worse than we did 30 years ago. I think large pockets of the country were insulated from recessions, etc. Remember there were no pc's or internet. I didn't even personally know anyone who was divorced when I got mine in 1998. I know that sounds dumb, but I lived in a small town.
My kids are in their 30s and are doing ok. Both have houses. Both have stable jobs with high earning power. Both are in the process of raising kids. I do worry, though, because my thirty-year-old son has $10,000 in his 401k. But raising kids is expensive, and I don't want to go all motherly on him. Maybe he will inherit wealth (not from me), and it will be ok.
As Dylan said, "The times-they-are-a-changing" . . . and always have been.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Apr 18, 2011 18:31:12 GMT -5
Things have always changed 30 years ago spotted owls wiped out logging in some places but now they have a prison and hospital so people are there but not the old loggers. Technology has wiped out jobs forever but new jobs come along. Adapt or be left behind even with the same old job title or at the same old company.
My boss has been CFO forever started with the company in 1968 but since then he has had to become IT manager and phone system manager and many other things. He is the one who puts in new computers, sets up users with email and handles all computer emergencies. He didn't know how to do that in 1968. I have been a bookkeeper since 1974 and it is far from the same job. I have worked in two software companies doing support and several CPA firms and other companies. When things change you can either embrace the change or get out of the business. I have used so many software programs I can't even remember all of them and never been trained on any of them, but am still the software expert on several like Excel that I taught myself.
Some will have jobs that don't change for a full career like someone stocking shelves at a retail store but most have to change and adapt.
I would say the 80s were the biggest changes the fastest. Pension plans died, inflation was rampant, computers started being bought by companies, main frames started to die in favor of smaller systems. People who had never touched a computer were made system managers like I was in 1983 on a UNIX system because nobody else knew anything either. Bookkeeping went from ledgers and journals to running reports and data entry.
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stats45
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Post by stats45 on Apr 18, 2011 18:35:11 GMT -5
I don't know that I think the economy is considerably better or worse (for employment for a median worker) than in other decades.
I think the changes from globalization and technology have created a bifurcated economy for high-skilled and low-skilled workers that has made their lives more fluid in different ways. For high-skilled workers, a job in your profession might be communicating, working with, and traveling to places all over the world. It often means more job changes and intense training throughout your career. For low-skilled workers, a job might be more transitory as technology and global supply chains make some types of employment in the US obsolete. Low-skilled workers have a service-based economy (rather than a manufacturing economy) with less job security and more turnover.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Apr 18, 2011 18:36:57 GMT -5
Well said cronewitch karma for you. I see some people who still can't believe how "little loyalty" companies show to employees. These seem to usually be older employees. Not trying to pick on anyone but times have changed and some people just seem to refuse to realize it or deal with it. Keep updating your skills and do what you can to stay employable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2011 10:40:38 GMT -5
Do you believe things are substantially more fluid than they were 20 or 30 years ago?
Yes, in a way I agree. I think debt is much more the norm now days & people are less into saving money for a rainy day. Because of that a job loss is much more devastating & the results hit home a lot faster. Economic cycles have always been around & people just aren't as prepared as they used to be.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Apr 19, 2011 11:21:47 GMT -5
I think it depends on where you live and the job/career path you choose... My siblings and I all went to 'local' colleges while the neices and nephews all went away to school. I've noticed the youngun's I work with aren't 'local'. There's a very good chance my neices and nephews will also move far and away to pursue their careers. I also think depending on your job/skill set there's more opportunity to move to where the jobs are OR to be transferred within a company that has international offices. I think today's youngun's are much more comfortable in a 'bigger world' than my friends and I were 25 years ago. Today's youngun's have the means to communicate (internet, cell, skype, etc) with friends/relatives no matter where they are. I'm the least travelled person I know - the only foreign country I've been to is Jamaica. I can atleast say I've got a passport. before Jamaica I was the only person I knew without a passport. Heck, I've worked on projects where the project team and leader where spread out in 5 different countries (we communicated electronically). The world is alot 'smaller' than it was 25 years ago.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Apr 19, 2011 11:29:43 GMT -5
I'm sad to say but with the recession the people I know who are having it the worse are the ones who couldn't (or wouldn't) change or who 'change' too slowly. I think for young people getting started today - their ability to handle change will be the thing that defines their current and future success.
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qofcc
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Post by qofcc on Apr 19, 2011 12:16:20 GMT -5
I think they're more fluid, but I don't think people are worse off. Change is coming faster and faster, but people today have more information and more options than ever before and more social safety nets.
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