I didnt know reading and math was racist!

[ripvanwinkle]

My retired teacher friend sent this to me. She couldn't believe they dropped the testing requirements. They are hurting the students. How are they going to compete with their peers in college if they go?

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/oregon-drops-essential-skills-requirements-to-graduate-high-school-citing-harm-to-marginalized-students/ar-AA1iEIOd?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=6d1b7edeaedb43a99b3578edab33edd9&ei=58

[happyhoix]

Not dropping them, pausing them, the article says, due to all the missed school during COVID.

And the tests aren’t racist. Who was most likely to have a shitty education during Covid? Kids from poorer areas, where they might not have had a computer/internet access, and more likely to have both parents working outside the house, or kids from middle class families, who probably had a least one parent working from home, access to a decent computer/internet, and someone supervising/assisting them to sit in front of the computer and complete the class work?

Unfortunately, statistically, the kids from poor families are more likely to be non whites. That’s not racist, that’s statistics.

The article says Oregon has some of the toughest graduation requirements of any state, so it’s unlikely that this temporarily loosening of this one test requirement will mean they’ll all be uneducated. They said that some of the kids were having to do a lot of special classes to drill over required material but that didn’t seem to impact how well they did in college - so relaxing that requirement seems to make more sense than having a surge of high school drop outs.

[Tennesseer]

I'll wait for a more neutral source of information.

Rip's article source:

Western Journal – Bias and Credibility

Overall, we rate Western Journal Right Biased and Questionable based on story selection and editorial opinions that strongly favor the right and numerous failed fact checks.

Detailed Report
Questionable Reasoning: Far Right, Failed Fact Checks, Propaganda, Conspiracy
Bias Rating: FAR RIGHT
Factual Reporting: MIXED
Country: USA
Press Freedom Rank: MOSTLY FREE
Media Type: Website

Media Bias/Fact Check: mediabiasfactcheck.com/western-journalism/

[tallguy]

Oct 22, 2023 21:23:46 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

I'll wait for a more neutral source of information.

Rip's article source:

Western Journal – Bias and Credibility

Overall, we rate Western Journal Right Biased and Questionable based on story selection and editorial opinions that strongly favor the right and numerous failed fact checks.

Detailed Report
Questionable Reasoning: Far Right, Failed Fact Checks, Propaganda, Conspiracy
Bias Rating: FAR RIGHT
Factual Reporting: MIXED
Country: USA
Press Freedom Rank: MOSTLY FREE
Media Type: Website

Media Bias/Fact Check: mediabiasfactcheck.com/western-journalism/

The ONLY good thing about Western Journal is that they don't pretend to hide their right-wing bias.  They seem to be pretty open about it. 


The ONLY good thing about Rip providing links is that we know beforehand it will be a worthless effort to actually read them. 

[ripvanwinkle]

Oct 22, 2023 21:33:56 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Oct 22, 2023 21:23:46 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

I'll wait for a more neutral source of information.

Rip's article source:

Western Journal – Bias and Credibility

Overall, we rate Western Journal Right Biased and Questionable based on story selection and editorial opinions that strongly favor the right and numerous failed fact checks.

Detailed Report
Questionable Reasoning: Far Right, Failed Fact Checks, Propaganda, Conspiracy
Bias Rating: FAR RIGHT
Factual Reporting: MIXED
Country: USA
Press Freedom Rank: MOSTLY FREE
Media Type: Website

Media Bias/Fact Check: mediabiasfactcheck.com/western-journalism/

The ONLY good thing about Western Journal is that they don't pretend to hide their right-wing bias.  They seem to be pretty open about it. 


The ONLY good thing about Rip providing links is that we know beforehand it will be a worthless effort to actually read them. 

Interesting. If someone posts a link to a liberal left leaning news story it's 100% factual and credible. No questioning it?

Conversely if someone posts a link to a conservative right leaning news story it''s 100% false and not credible?

[tallguy]

Oct 22, 2023 22:52:23 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Oct 22, 2023 21:33:56 GMT -5 tallguy said:

The ONLY good thing about Western Journal is that they don't pretend to hide their right-wing bias.  They seem to be pretty open about it. 


The ONLY good thing about Rip providing links is that we know beforehand it will be a worthless effort to actually read them. 

Interesting. If someone posts a link to a liberal left leaning news story it's 100% factual and credible. No questioning it?

Conversely if someone posts a link to a conservative right leaning news story it''s 100% false and not credible?

No.  If someone repeatedly posts links from admittedly-biased sources which have poor reputations for truthfulness, they don't get the benefit of the doubt.  I can't recall you ever posting anything from a non-biased source with a good reputation for truthfulness.  These are not one-offs.  It's a pattern.  

[Opti]

Oct 22, 2023 22:52:23 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Oct 22, 2023 21:33:56 GMT -5 tallguy said:

The ONLY good thing about Western Journal is that they don't pretend to hide their right-wing bias.  They seem to be pretty open about it. 


The ONLY good thing about Rip providing links is that we know beforehand it will be a worthless effort to actually read them. 

Interesting. If someone posts a link to a liberal left leaning news story it's 100% factual and credible. No questioning it?

Conversely if someone posts a link to a conservative right leaning news story it''s 100% false and not credible?

What you consider liberal left leaning is likely less biased than Western Journal and other preferred media sources. The RW media sphere is littered with talking heads and channels whose purpose is to hook you in with skewed stories and sometimes things made up whole cloth like Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, and Alex Jones. The equivalent does not really exist on the Left that I am aware of and if there are some, they are not as popular by a wide margin as the well packaged shit stirring talking heads I mentioned on the Right.

I looked at Tenn's link and here's their link to center media, I was hoping to find a NJ station on there but I did not. I'll look another time to find out where NJ12 and others fall at a better time.


mediabiasfactcheck.com/center/

[Opti]

Oct 22, 2023 20:44:20 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

My retired teacher friend sent this to me. She couldn't believe they dropped the testing requirements. They are hurting the students. How are they going to compete with their peers in college if they go?

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/oregon-drops-essential-skills-requirements-to-graduate-high-school-citing-harm-to-marginalized-students/ar-AA1iEIOd?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=6d1b7edeaedb43a99b3578edab33edd9&ei=58

Its an opinion piece masquerading as news. The first source used by the author is a tweet, not a news article. Apparently the pause started in 2021 and was extended to 2029. Documenting the decision and getting the reasoning behind it would be actual reporting, but that is missing in this opinion piece. Instead we have snippets of conjecture like -


According to the Oregon DOE, a higher number of students of color, students learning English as a second language and students with disabilities had to take intensive writing and math courses in their senior year to prove their eligibility for a diploma, and "there was a lack of evidence the extra academic work helped them in the workplace or at college."

How are kids who have never had the pressure of studying for tests or keeping a required grade average supposed to handle the pressures of college and competing with students from other schools who have had these experiences?

The latter is opinion trying to lead readers to a conclusion. I'm not certain with this level of writing whether anything in it is all that accurate. Is everything still pass/fail now? Or have grades returned but not counting the essential skills test. Which they still administer to students, they just don't count the results.

Rip you also led with one of the opinion statements from the author, reading and writing are racist which is not what officials were saying/ In the set of race, those disadvantaged by having learning English in addition to their school subjects, and disabled students you and the author decided to focus solely on the first set of students. I'm not sure how much Covid hurt students from poorer households which probably included essential workers like grocery, and low end healthcare. Nor do I know how long those impacts will occur. For all I know, Oregon is protecting its ass by suspending this requirement for so long waiting until scores return to pre pandemic levels.

[tallguy]

Oct 23, 2023 0:33:33 GMT -5 Opti said:

Oct 22, 2023 22:52:23 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Interesting. If someone posts a link to a liberal left leaning news story it's 100% factual and credible. No questioning it?

Conversely if someone posts a link to a conservative right leaning news story it''s 100% false and not credible?

What you consider liberal left leaning is likely less biased than Western Journal and other preferred media sources. The RW media sphere is littered with talking heads and channels whose purpose is to hook you in with skewed stories and sometimes things made up whole cloth like Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, and Alex Jones. The equivalent does not really exist on the Left that I am aware of and if there are some, they are not as popular by a wide margin as the well packaged shit stirring talking heads I mentioned on the Right.

I looked at Tenn's link and here's their link to center media, I was hoping to find a NJ station on there but I did not. I'll look another time to find out where NJ12 and others fall at a better time.


mediabiasfactcheck.com/center/

Of the four major local TV stations (three Seattle and one Tacoma), three of them are listed on this "Least Biased" list.  The one that I have sworn never to watch for news is not.  It is a Sinclair station.  I trust that explains why I have sworn never to watch it.   

[Opti]

That opinion piece was so leading by the nose I could not discuss all what was wrong with it in one or even two posts. The other opinion statement that I thought was stupid ane misleading was this one -


But to be fair, making detailed worksheets about vital topics like gender pronouns must take away a lot of time from frivolous subjects like math and English.


This is HS, not elementary school, and all subjects are taught. Math as a course will not be impacted by gender pronouns, that's just baiting nonsense. And frankly English would be the correct place to discuss and teach trans pronouns. Only a fear monger would assume adding such to the subject of English would totally derail it. The use of English changes as daily lives change. There is no need for "detailed worksheets on gender pronouns". Its fairly simple. Some people because of their gender identity prefer to use they/them. So instead of just using she/her and he/him there is now a third option, they/them. It isn't rocket English, its a simply another way to use they/them. Pronouns that already existed in the English language which now have an expanded meaning. Webster's adds new words to the dictionary every year and probably adds different usages to words as well.

Maybe some adults need a life skills essentials test if they can't cope with the additional usage of they/them. 

[tallguy]

You're working too hard.  None of Rip's articles deserve a reasoned rebuttal.  Simple ridicule will almost certainly suffice.

[Opti]

Oct 23, 2023 1:04:25 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Oct 23, 2023 0:33:33 GMT -5 Opti said:

What you consider liberal left leaning is likely less biased than Western Journal and other preferred media sources. The RW media sphere is littered with talking heads and channels whose purpose is to hook you in with skewed stories and sometimes things made up whole cloth like Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, and Alex Jones. The equivalent does not really exist on the Left that I am aware of and if there are some, they are not as popular by a wide margin as the well packaged shit stirring talking heads I mentioned on the Right.

I looked at Tenn's link and here's their link to center media, I was hoping to find a NJ station on there but I did not. I'll look another time to find out where NJ12 and others fall at a better time.


mediabiasfactcheck.com/center/

Of the four major local TV stations (three Seattle and one Tacoma), three of them are listed on this "Least Biased" list.  The one that I have sworn never to watch for news is not.  It is a Sinclair station.  I trust that explains why I have sworn never to watch it.   

I need to go back to sleep, I am not finding media sources here under where I'd expect them. I did find a NJ radio station 101.5 under leans right, which I would agree with. 

[tallguy]

Oct 23, 2023 1:04:25 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Oct 23, 2023 0:33:33 GMT -5 Opti said:

What you consider liberal left leaning is likely less biased than Western Journal and other preferred media sources. The RW media sphere is littered with talking heads and channels whose purpose is to hook you in with skewed stories and sometimes things made up whole cloth like Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, and Alex Jones. The equivalent does not really exist on the Left that I am aware of and if there are some, they are not as popular by a wide margin as the well packaged shit stirring talking heads I mentioned on the Right.

I looked at Tenn's link and here's their link to center media, I was hoping to find a NJ station on there but I did not. I'll look another time to find out where NJ12 and others fall at a better time.


mediabiasfactcheck.com/center/

Of the four major local TV stations (three Seattle and one Tacoma), three of them are listed on this "Least Biased" list.  The one that I have sworn never to watch for news is not.  It is a Sinclair station.  I trust that explains why I have sworn never to watch it.   

Interesting to do a filtered search.  On that entire list, there are only two TV stations or groups that are noted as "Right-biased."  Sinclair is one, with "Mixed" reporting and "Medium" credibility, which apparently means that only half of it is bull****.  Of the four listed as "Questionable Sources" there are some familiar names.  Fox News is listed as having Mixed reporting, while Newsmax and One America News Network are rated Low for reporting.  All are Low Credibility. 

Of those listed as Left-biased, the most familiar is CNN.  It is rated "Mostly Factual" with High Credibility.

[Opti]

Oct 23, 2023 1:27:09 GMT -5 tallguy said:

You're working too hard.  None of Rip's articles deserve a reasoned rebuttal.  Simple ridicule will almost certainly suffice.

I hope I am teaching those who don't comment on how to vet sources and articles. I hope someday Rip will do so as well. There was so much wrong with that opinion piece I could pick it apart for days. The author actually raised a good question, what was the evidence that the remedial work in senior year did not help the students but did not actually get off her ass and find out. Call someone who made the decision and ask if you don't find it in any of the legit press on the decision.

I find the imaginary wailing over "however will they compete in college now" comment funny as well. For recent grads they would have had tests and grades in middle school. And even in a pass/fail scenario, one does have to do enough to pass. 

[Tennesseer]

Oct 22, 2023 22:52:23 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Oct 22, 2023 21:33:56 GMT -5 tallguy said:

The ONLY good thing about Western Journal is that they don't pretend to hide their right-wing bias.  They seem to be pretty open about it. 


The ONLY good thing about Rip providing links is that we know beforehand it will be a worthless effort to actually read them. 

Interesting. If someone posts a link to a liberal left leaning news story it's 100% factual and credible. No questioning it?

Conversely if someone posts a link to a conservative right leaning news story it''s 100% false and not credible?

Rip: Do you remember this post of yours?

Sept 25, 2023 22:34:22 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Sept 25, 2023 21:59:59 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Another news article by fox. Do you actually read anything that isn’t right wing garbage?

 I can/do read the same story on ABC, CBS, NBC news websites and it all reads the same.They have their slant also. My home page is MSN News. Fox News seems to be the one that pops up more than others. They lean left of center. mediabiasfactcheck.com/msn-com/.

I am using your link (mediabiasfactcheck.com) you used on September 25 to look at the bias of your current sources of news. Now your mediabiasfactcheck link is no longer worthy of trust? It's making you and your sources look like fools.

Stay away from that retired teacher friend of yours. Each time you post something he told you, your threads and posts crash and burn.

[billisonboard]

Oct 23, 2023 1:23:12 GMT -5 Opti said:

That opinion piece was so leading by the nose I could not discuss all what was wrong with it in one or even two posts. The other opinion statement that I thought was stupid ane misleading was this one -


But to be fair, making detailed worksheets about vital topics like gender pronouns must take away a lot of time from frivolous subjects like math and English.


This is HS, not elementary school, and all subjects are taught. Math as a course will not be impacted by gender pronouns, that's just baiting nonsense. And frankly English would be the correct place to discuss and teach trans pronouns. Only a fear monger would assume adding such to the subject of English would totally derail it. The use of English changes as daily lives change. There is no need for "detailed worksheets on gender pronouns". Its fairly simple. Some people because of their gender identity prefer to use they/them. So instead of just using she/her and he/him there is now a third option, they/them. It isn't rocket English, its a simply another way to use they/them. Pronouns that already existed in the English language which now have an expanded meaning. Webster's adds new words to the dictionary every year and probably adds different usages to words as well.

Maybe some adults need a life skills essentials test if they can't cope with the additional usage of they/them. 

I found the pronoun comment coupled with this interesting.

Public schools, especially in left-governed states have completely lost the point of their existence, which is to give students an education and prepare them for the workplace -- nothing more, nothing less.

Proper education in modern pronoun usage falls under both.

[Tiny]

FWIW: I'm betting the Private Schools that the wealthy send their kids to are much more liberal (wealthy people have gay and trans kids, too. Wealthy people want their kids to have access to diversity. Wealthy people want their kids to have access to ALL the knowledge/books. I'm guessing they aren't willing to send their "not quite right" kids off to an asylum or hide them totally from their family and communities. I'm guessing the wealthy are willing to limit what their kids have access to (knowledge) )


Basically, I think this all is just another way to get everyday people to agree to limit their rights and to limit what kinds of services and education their kids will get.... while the wealthy can make sure their kids get all the good stuff.

[djAdvocate]

Oct 22, 2023 22:52:23 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Oct 22, 2023 21:33:56 GMT -5 tallguy said:

The ONLY good thing about Western Journal is that they don't pretend to hide their right-wing bias.  They seem to be pretty open about it. 


The ONLY good thing about Rip providing links is that we know beforehand it will be a worthless effort to actually read them. 

Interesting. If someone posts a link to a liberal left leaning news story it's 100% factual and credible. No questioning it?

Conversely if someone posts a link to a conservative right leaning news story it''s 100% false and not credible?

people intentionally avoid posting stuff from left leaning sources like the Huffington Post, here.  you may have not noticed that, but i have.

the most centrist news agency is AP.  and it is also a feeder source for both right AND left wing media that has even a SHRED of integrity.  i would suggest sourcing everything you post through AP.

[djAdvocate]

Oct 23, 2023 0:33:33 GMT -5 Opti said:

Oct 22, 2023 22:52:23 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Interesting. If someone posts a link to a liberal left leaning news story it's 100% factual and credible. No questioning it?

Conversely if someone posts a link to a conservative right leaning news story it''s 100% false and not credible?

What you consider liberal left leaning is likely less biased than Western Journal and other preferred media sources. 


mediabiasfactcheck.com/center/

there is another thing that everyone here needs to realize.

the further you are away from centrist, the less likely you are to realize what centrist IS.  in other words, a person who consumes a steady diet of right wing media will see centrist media as "liberal" or "left wing".  if they are WAY out there on the limb, they will see FOX NEWS as centrist or even liberal.

this is why it is IMPORTANT to get a wide ranging diet of news, and compare things for factuality.

[Opti]

Oct 24, 2023 11:48:52 GMT -5 Tiny said:

FWIW: I'm betting the Private Schools that the wealthy send their kids to are much more liberal (wealthy people have gay and trans kids, too. Wealthy people want their kids to have access to diversity. Wealthy people want their kids to have access to ALL the knowledge/books. I'm guessing they aren't willing to send their "not quite right" kids off to an asylum or hide them totally from their family and communities. I'm guessing the wealthy are willing to limit what their kids have access to (knowledge) )


Basically, I think this all is just another way to get everyday people to agree to limit their rights and to limit what kinds of services and education their kids will get.... while the wealthy can make sure their kids get all the good stuff.

There are wealthy conservatives, and they actively seek restrictive schools. Being wealthy does not make you more liberal no more than being poor makes you more conservative.

[Tennesseer]

Had rip looked into my linked Media Bias/Fact Check article he would have seen The Western Journal was ranked almost extreme right.  Not the best source for news.

[Tiny]

Oct 24, 2023 17:58:16 GMT -5 Opti said:

Oct 24, 2023 11:48:52 GMT -5 Tiny said:

FWIW: I'm betting the Private Schools that the wealthy send their kids to are much more liberal (wealthy people have gay and trans kids, too. Wealthy people want their kids to have access to diversity. Wealthy people want their kids to have access to ALL the knowledge/books. I'm guessing they aren't willing to send their "not quite right" kids off to an asylum or hide them totally from their family and communities. I'm guessing the wealthy are willing to limit what their kids have access to (knowledge) )


Basically, I think this all is just another way to get everyday people to agree to limit their rights and to limit what kinds of services and education their kids will get.... while the wealthy can make sure their kids get all the good stuff.

There are wealthy conservatives, and they actively seek restrictive schools. Being wealthy does not make you more liberal no more than being poor makes you more conservative.

I may be bumping into semantics...      I think that there's a two sidedness to conservativism - a wealthy family would want their kids to learn the scientific method and learn about sexuality and learn that diversity isn't a bad thing and that slavery is wrong... they just do it without coming out and saying it.    Maybe it's more like "talking out of two sides of their mouth".    

I grew up Catholic surrounded by other Catholics.  All of whom went to church or were active in the church (think social clubs or clubs that helped the church with church stuff).   Sex before marriage was BAD as in a Mortal Sin - ticket straight to Hell if you died before you could "confess" the sin.    That didn't stop a lot of unmarried people from having "covert" sex while still professing their belief that it was bad/wrong/shameful.   There were LOTS of other daily life things that were like this.     There was a lot of "looking the other way" when people didn't abide by the teachings of the church which also included what was taught in school and home.    Especially when you needed to do things to get by in life.   As long as you put up the image that you were abiding by the rules - no one would say much of anything. 

That's what I'm talking about.  Conservatives want to ban abortions - but that doesn't mean they will stop their own family members getting one (or facilitating one for someone else).    Conservatives want to control what's taught in public schools - but that doesn't mean they will apply that same control to the public (or private) school their own kids attend.   They will find ways around it.   OR they will say it doesn't apply to them/their kids.    They aren't be "liberal" they are just educating their children to succeed in life.
   
You can often spot that "say one thing out loud - but do another thing" if you look closely.  

[Tiny]

Added: The wealthy Conservatives have the privilege of getting around whatever "conservative things" they legislate - whenever they decide the laws/rules do apply to them or their situation.  And I'm pretty sure the wealthy (liberal or conservative)  already know this on some level.     Conservatives just seem a tiny bit more "evil" because there's that "I'm more special" component to it. 
 
Everyone else just has to live within the laws/rules.

[Opti]

Oct 25, 2023 10:55:42 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Oct 24, 2023 17:58:16 GMT -5 Opti said:

There are wealthy conservatives, and they actively seek restrictive schools. Being wealthy does not make you more liberal no more than being poor makes you more conservative.

I may be bumping into semantics...      I think that there's a two sidedness to conservativism - a wealthy family would want their kids to learn the scientific method and learn about sexuality and learn that diversity isn't a bad thing and that slavery is wrong... they just do it without coming out and saying it.    Maybe it's more like "talking out of two sides of their mouth".    

I grew up Catholic surrounded by other Catholics.  All of whom went to church or were active in the church (think social clubs or clubs that helped the church with church stuff).   Sex before marriage was BAD as in a Mortal Sin - ticket straight to Hell if you died before you could "confess" the sin.    That didn't stop a lot of unmarried people from having "covert" sex while still professing their belief that it was bad/wrong/shameful.   There were LOTS of other daily life things that were like this.     There was a lot of "looking the other way" when people didn't abide by the teachings of the church which also included what was taught in school and home.    Especially when you needed to do things to get by in life.   As long as you put up the image that you were abiding by the rules - no one would say much of anything. 

That's what I'm talking about.  Conservatives want to ban abortions - but that doesn't mean they will stop their own family members getting one (or facilitating one for someone else).    Conservatives want to control what's taught in public schools - but that doesn't mean they will apply that same control to the public (or private) school their own kids attend.   They will find ways around it.   OR they will say it doesn't apply to them/their kids.    They aren't be "liberal" they are just educating their children to succeed in life.
   
You can often spot that "say one thing out loud - but do another thing" if you look closely.  

I don't think its just semantics. Catholics are not necessarily the most conservative and I've been educated here in NJ how much some Catholics do not follow the church dogma especially when it comes to sex including cheating. But Baptists and similar faiths can be more conservative. One of my former coworkers was banned from being any higher than a mere parishioner in his church because he got a divorce. His wife had been sexually abused and that did not come out or impact him until after marriage. Did not matter, he could not even run a committee. I've read more than a few almost first person articles of rich conservative men pulling their children from colleges that they thought were way too liberal.

And I definitely do not believe many conservative families rich or otherwise really want their kids to learn about sex. Remember various red states allowing only abstinence to be discussed in "sex ed" not even  allowed to mention birth control in HS or lower classes. Do you think the Duggars and their ilk want their kids educated in sex? Its not so long ago that once it was popular for girls to go visit relatives to have their baby and return without them. Abortion not needed nor supported. Heck more than a few Catholic churches and nunneries took in pregnant girls back in the day and gave their children away for couples to adopt without their permission.

www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-celebrities/jim-bob-duggar-net-worth/

I now work with someone from the Bible belt. It has been eye opening and makes me happier many times I grew up where I did in the Midwest.