Wealth is what you Save, not what you Spend.

[straydog]

Good article from Yahoo Finance. I've been an impulse buyer most of my life, I now have it under control, but occasionally I still get a case of the 'spendies'. So it's good for me to keep reading articles like this.

"Wealth is what you save, not what you spend."

financiallyfit.yahoo.com/finance/article-112550-9317-5-what-millionaires-have-in-common?ywaad=ad0035&nc

P.S. There is only one thing that I disagree with in the article. And that is that you should not use credit cards too much. I have two cash back cards that I pay off each month - they are paying me to use their product.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Whenever I quote Robert Kiyosaki, "It's not what you earn, it's what you keep", the average person's eyes just glaze over. It's not that difficult a concept, but it's amazing how few people understand that there's a difference between being a member of the relatively large number of income statement affluent Americans, and being one of the much smaller number of balance sheet affluent Americans.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

On the credit card thing, they never say so in so many words- but the assumption with a lot of these generic, "well, duh!" personal finance articles is that the readers are idiots. They lack the discipline to manage money well, and they're even worse with credit. I've always begun with the premise that even if you ARE an idiot-- stop doing that. And if you're no good at managing money, and you have, or likely will bungle credit-- learn to get good at it, and learn how to excel at using credit and other forms of leverage to get ahead.

In spite of catchy book titles that suggest it, there's no "autopilot" system for becoming wealthy. Wealth is the result. You will become a wealthy person-- the kind of person that gets wealthy-- long before your income statement and balance sheet reflects the fact. It will be WHO you are that determines WHAT you get.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

On the credit card thing, they never say so in so many words- but the assumption with a lot of these generic, "well, duh!" personal finance articles is that the readers are idiots. They lack the discipline to manage money well, and they're even worse with credit. I've always begun with the premise that even if you ARE an idiot-- stop doing that.

You perhaps are not referring to ding-bats like MP Dunleavey from MSN Money?

[Sum Dum Gai]

Wealth is what you Save, not what you Spend.

I disagree with this as a blanket statement. Like most things it needs some balance or it falls apart. Look at the extreme for an example of why. Let's imagine we have a Wall St. big shot. A hedge fund manager or something. Dude makes several million a year with bonuses and everything. He lives in a refrigerator box under an overpass, "showers" in the sink at public restrooms on the subway, eats at soup kitchens, saves pretty much every penny he ever earns. We'll say he spends a whopping $10k a year of his huge salary, and invests the rest in real estate, equities, bonds, some cash equivalents, the whole diversified growth portfolio thing. He does this for decades. Year in and year out, he lives like a homeless person and saves more than a lot of the country will make in their entire lives.

Is he wealthy? Most would say yes because of his huge asset sheet right?

Now let's say one night he gets killed under the overpass by a psycho. Maybe another homeless dude wanted his box or something. Maybe the stress of living in that environment finally catches up and he dies of a heart attack. Whatever. It doesn't really matter.

OK, so now we have a dude that lived his entire personal life like a homeless dude and he dies without ever getting to enjoy any of the benefits of his ridiculously high earnings. Would you still consider him wealthy? I mean, on paper he was, but in reality he lived his entire life below the poverty line. He might as well have really been dirt poor right? His high power job and the earning that came with it didn't benefit him at all.

Wealth by itself is obviously a pretty stupid goal. A giant pile of money is pretty much worthless on it's own. It's only worth something if you trade the money for stuff you want, or experiences. To me, you literally can't be wealthy until you trade some of your wealth for stuff. Until then it's just some ink on a page, or digits in a computer somewhere. It's literally about as useful as a WoW character, your crops in Farmville, or the doodles you make while talking on the phone.

[2kids10horses]

Dark,

Rather than reply to your example, let's use a real example!

In Atlanta, there was this old guy that owned a house in a bad neighborhood. A Section 8 neighborhood. But, it was his house. He would go out during the day, pushing a grocery cart, and pick up stuff, and put it in his grocery cart. He looked like a homeless person, wore the clothes of the homeless. When he passed away in his 80's, everyone expected his house to be filled with the junk he collected. It wasn't. There was modest furniture. But relatively neat.

There were no heirs, eventually, the house was sold by the State.

An investor bought it, to fix up as a Section 8 rental. He found, up in the attic, something like $150,000. The guy must have sold the stuff he collected every day, and hoarded the cash. It was stuffed in the rafters, in nook and crannies. No one could believe it. The guy had saved (not invested!) quite a bit of money, but chose to live the life he chose.

(The money, by the way, was given to charity.)

Now, in both your and my example, the guy has money, but chooses to live modestly. I would say, they were both wealthy. They had the means to be able to live the lifestyle they preferred to live, even if your hedge fund manger lost his job, or my grocery cart man lost his cart, they could have survived off their wealth for the rest of their lives.

[Sum Dum Gai]

I'm not so sure I'd call the guy from your example wealthy either.

They had the means to be able to live the lifestyle they preferred to live, even if your hedge fund manger lost his job, or my grocery cart man lost his cart, they could have survived off their wealth for the rest of their lives.

While they do get some benefit to having the means to live off their wealth, it's the actually doing it that makes somebody wealthy to a certain extent. Using the means is just as big a part of the goal as having the means. In my opinion anyway.

[phil5185]

Using the means is just as big a part of the goal as having the means.
so now we have a dude that lived his entire personal life like a homeless dude and he dies without ever getting to enjoy any of the benefits of his ridiculously high earnings.

Your argument reduces to - 'you must spend your wealth to enjoy your wealth'. Taken to the limit, that means that you could never be wealthy because you spend your wealth.
For most of us it is partially true that we spend some for enjoyment. But for those guys, the enjoyment may have been in the building of wealth. Or the contentment of having the wealth.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Taken to the limit, that means that you could never be wealthy because you spend your wealth.

Right, you'd be like a lot of celebs or athletes that make a ridiculous salary but blow it all almost as fast as it comes in. The second their popularity wanes or they can't play anymore they're in bankruptcy court and no better off than the rest of us. Obviously that extreme isn't the best plan, but at least they get some enjoyment out of the money in the process. The guys who live and die in poverty while sitting on a small fortune don't even get to live it up for a few years.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

If I was going to live like a poor person, I'd just be poor. It's easier.

[Deleted]

"at least they get some enjoyment out of the money in the process."

I wonder if they really do. When you see some of the outrageous behavior, including the reckless spending sprees, you have to wonder if they are really happy. It reminds of an alcoholic binge drinker where one drink isn't enough. They have to keep consuming more and more to get the "high".

And I suspect some people know that many of their so called "friends" are only friends until the celeb's money and fame is gone. That's a pretty depressing lifestyle to me.

[michelyn8]

I haven't read the article but I wanted to comment on my definition of wealth.

I consider wealthy person as someone who is able to live a life of their choosing. Its not necessarily about income and assets but more about happiness.

Some want a more affluent lifestyle and work to have that. If they have a balance between living and working and are enjoying what life, I consider them wealthy. If they are struggling to finance a lifestyle they can't afford and are constantly stressed, they're poor.

On the other end of the spectrum are those who choose a more simple life. They don't have a large income but they make enough to pay for their home, pursue the activities that interest them and save for a rainy day. To me their just as wealthy as my previous example.

My goal in life is not to have millions but just to have a home that is mine (and preferably paid for before I'm to old to work anymore) and be able to live a simple country life. I want a place to do grow flowers, my own veggies, refinish old furniture, etc. I have the income for it, but not the savings. My life isn't bad and I'm not struggling like others but I'm by no means "wealthy" but since my needs/wants are fairly simple, I don't stress that about my progress and know I can reach my goal if I buckle down and make a few more sacrifices.


ETA: please excuse the spelling/grammar errors...........it seems right as I type, but its early and I'm still on my first cup of coffee

[michelyn8]

Apr 19, 2011 3:22:38 GMT -5 @bonnap said:

"at least they get some enjoyment out of the money in the process."

I wonder if they really do. When you see some of the outrageous behavior, including the reckless spending sprees, you have to wonder if they are really happy. It reminds of an alcoholic binge drinker where one drink isn't enough. They have to keep consuming more and more to get the "high".

And I suspect some people know that many of their so called "friends" are only friends until the celeb's money and fame is gone. That's a pretty depressing lifestyle to me.

I think those that live like that have more issues than money. Isn't it more of a lack of self esteem and the need to impress others so they'll be liked that drive this kind of behavior?

[straydog]

PBP:
It will be WHO you are that determines WHAT you get.

Exactly. Before I accepted Jesus Christ, I was a drunk, a gambler, and a spendthrift. After God changed my heart and my way of thinking, I started to look at money in a whole new light. I also started reading books from Kiyosaki, Orman, Bach, "The Millionaire next Door', etc.

My grandfather left me some money after he died - thankfully it was after I accepted Christ. Because if it had been before, it would have been most likely squandered away.

But instead, I opened up a savings account and I started paying down all my old debt's. Now when I inherited that money, my credit rating was at the bottom of the barrel. But years later, after the debt's were paid and I was putting every penny that I could into my saving account, when I was looking to buy a house during the boom; I checked my credit score and it was 765.

I used to be a commissioned salesman but my disability caused me to leave (I also believe that God had a hand in it and that is because the sales organizations that I worked for were asking me to lie to customers). So I swallowed my pride and started delivering pizza while in my mid 40s - I did it when I was in my twenties too.

Some may not think that it's a good job, but you would be surprised. If you have a good attitude and look neat, you can do very well in tips, and I did. I also admit that I've been staying with family and that has kept my expenses lower.

Now my store manager, who I am guessing probably made $10,000 more or so per year than I did, was constantly broke. She could not save a dime if her life depended on it. As soon as she got her paycheck, it was pretty much gone. Starbucks twice per day, always going out, continuously buying junk she didn't really have any use for. I honestly don't know how she managed her rent and car payment. Although I once heard her mention that she had gotten payday loans - although they are illegal in my state, she might have crossed the river to get one.

So after five years I had to quit because the pain that my disability was causing was getting me into too many close calls on the road. But I had saved a small fortune. I did not buy a house because the collapse came right as I was going to apply for a loan.

Unfortunately though, because I've been out of work for a few years, about 10% it has been spent, but I still have the bulk of it and now I am looking to start a business. I just hope that my credit score has not sunk too far down because I've been out of work, but thank God I am still debt free.

[shandi76]

If I was going to live like a poor person, I'd just be poor. It's easier.

I guess that depends on your outlook. I think that being financially independent, even if you have to live frugally to maintain it, is preferable to being poor with no assets. It seems so much less stressful, and gives you more options.

Of course, I would rather work a few more years in order to get the assets to support a less frugal existence, but I've never been overly aspirational in terms of wanting a flashy lifestyle: the things that give me enjoyment don't cost that much.

On another note, did any of you read the comments on the article? Some of those commenting took great offense at the following part of the article and made rather personal attacks on the author:

People with high incomes who spend all that money are not rich; they're just stupid.

I'm guessing they were full of righteous indignation about their lifestyle choices

[straydog]

Darkhonor:
Right, you'd be like a lot of celebs or athletes that make a ridiculous salary but blow it all almost as fast as it comes in. The second their popularity wanes or they can't play anymore they're in bankruptcy court and no better off than the rest of us.

SD:
Sounds like a good opportunity for someone who is trained in financial counseling to market themselves to young, professional athletes. Of course, getting to the right ones while they are still in college would be the trick, before they become famous and you can't get near them.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Having wealth, at what ever level, provides one with lots of options.
Take two people, each working at the same firm, and earning the identical salary.
One person lives within their means and has accumulated a sizable 401K amount as well as $500,000 in assets.
The other person, enjoyed their wealth and is not in the 401K plan, and has not saved anything.
When layoffs occur the first individual has many more options than the second.
Having wealth, even a few hundred thousand provides on with freedom and choices.

[Bluerobin]

Wealth is not having to worry about what you spend.

[phil5185]

"at least they get some enjoyment out of the money in the process."

'enjoy' and 'dissipate' aren't synonyms.

[mtshastawriter]

When my DH became disabled in 1998, we moved from the SF Bay Area where our mortgage was more than his SSDI payment, to an area where we could mostly live on his income. This move had two purposes 1. to allow him to spend as much time with our kids as possible while he was still living and 2. to have me end up with a paid-off or nearly paid-off house when the time came that I would have to support myself/my kids. (My DH was 10 years older than I am)

Fast forward to now and I have have a paid-off house and DH managed to live past the time the doctors predicted and just a few months shy of our oldest graduating from high school.

I knew we would never be wealthy with DH's medical issues and all that entailed, but with a very low income, the kids and I are able to live quite nicely and I can save for the future now.

I too was one of those people who wanted to live in a rural area, have some land, and have a garden, chickens, etc... and I do! My idea of wealth is being able to live where I want and support the lifestyle that I choose. I'll take my 5 acres and chickens over a mansion in the city any day!

[Taxman10]

Apr 18, 2011 14:47:22 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

On the credit card thing, they never say so in so many words- but the assumption with a lot of these generic, "well, duh!" personal finance articles is that the readers are idiots. They lack the discipline to manage money well, and they're even worse with credit. I've always begun with the premise that even if you ARE an idiot-- stop doing that.

You perhaps are not referring to ding-bats like MP Dunleavey from MSN Money?

I honestly can't believe that she is a "money expert" I've actually seen her quote as such. I remember some of her beginning articles "Today i realized that i spend $5,000 a year on starbucks" - she was a true nit-wit. kinda like those new "journalists" over at Bundle.

[Deleted]

To me the term Wealth translates into "Being able to afford to do what you want, when you want".

I reconnected with a cousin a year or so ago (hard to keep in touch when you move around a lot & live out of the country a lot). Anyway she is a single parent & lives payday to payday. Her one vice (if you want to call it that) is cruise lines & vacations. She HAS to take a vacation each year & always does a cruise of some sort. She thinks I'm strange because I have only really taken 1 vacation in my life.
Anyway she is also worried about retirement because she doesn't feel that she has enough money saved or will have enough saved by the time she retires. As we were talking about it I pointed out that she could really beef up her retirement saving by investing the cost of those cruises each year. She reacted like I had slapped her or something because she "needed" her vacations. Even when I point out that by investing the money we could take a cruise every other month for the rest of our lives she just couldn't force herself to do without her vacations because she "needed" them.
I guess that's why some people can never be wealthy, things are just to meaningful to them. Understand I don't disagree with what she does. I feel everybody has to make their own choices in life & live with the results of those choices. For all I know her experiences on those cruises are worth millions of dollars to her. They just wouldn't be to me.

[dancinmama]

Wealth building is not an all or nothing proposition. The author of the article is trying to encourage people to SAVE SOMETHING regardless of one's income to build some level of wealth. Your goal does not have to be a million dollars. It does not mean that you have to live under a bridge or give up some of the better things in life.

One of my mottoes is that I can have almost ANY material possession that I want, but I can't have EVERYTHING that I want.

When we first started out, we decided that financial security and early retirement for DH are things that WE WANTED for ourselves. To have those things, we had to give up other things. That's the way it works. For example: when we buy a car, we usually keep it for 10+ years. We give up always having a "newer" car to have financial security; and only ONE of the cars that we have ever had was purchased brand new. Right now DH is driving a 2003 and I am driving a 2000. They both look really good. We are not keeping them because of the bad economy; this is the way we have always been with our cars. We drove our first car for 13 years before selling it.

It also took us longer to save the down payment for our first home (20% down) because we opted to start making the maximum contribution to DH's 401K as early as possible in order to reach our goal of early retirement. That means that we put off having something "today" that we REALLY WANTED (our own home) in order to have something that we wanted more later - a lot later - over 30 years later (early retirement).

DH "plans" to take early retirement in early 2012 at the age of 55.

Everyone's goals and wants and needs differ, but I don't think there is even one of us that would say that they do not want to build some level of "wealth" or financial security.

Establish your goals, set priorities, and GO FOR IT!!

[Tired Tess]

The best wealth builder is deferring gratification. You can have what you want, but not right away. Start a plan early. Make time work for you. GET EDUCATED!!

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Apr 19, 2011 8:09:32 GMT -5 Bluerobin said:

Wealth is not having to worry about what you spend.

I forget who said it-- I think it was a rock star-- but I have always liked the quote that, "You are wealthy in direct proportion to the number of people you can tell to go to hell".

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Apr 19, 2011 5:15:25 GMT -5 @straydog said:

PBP:
It will be WHO you are that determines WHAT you get.

Exactly. Before I accepted Jesus Christ, I was a drunk, a gambler, and a spendthrift. After God changed my heart and my way of thinking, I started to look at money in a whole new light. I also started reading books from Kiyosaki, Orman, Bach, "The Millionaire next Door', etc.

My grandfather left me some money after he died - thankfully it was after I accepted Christ. Because if it had been before, it would have been most likely squandered away.

But instead, I opened up a savings account and I started paying down all my old debt's. Now when I inherited that money, my credit rating was at the bottom of the barrel. But years later, after the debt's were paid and I was putting every penny that I could into my saving account, when I was looking to buy a house during the boom; I checked my credit score and it was 765.

I used to be a commissioned salesman but my disability caused me to leave (I also believe that God had a hand in it and that is because the sales organizations that I worked for were asking me to lie to customers). So I swallowed my pride and started delivering pizza while in my mid 40s - I did it when I was in my twenties too.

Some may not think that it's a good job, but you would be surprised. If you have a good attitude and look neat, you can do very well in tips, and I did. I also admit that I've been staying with family and that has kept my expenses lower.

Now my store manager, who I am guessing probably made $10,000 more or so per year than I did, was constantly broke. She could not save a dime if her life depended on it. As soon as she got her paycheck, it was pretty much gone. Starbucks twice per day, always going out, continuously buying junk she didn't really have any use for. I honestly don't know how she managed her rent and car payment. Although I once heard her mention that she had gotten payday loans - although they are illegal in my state, she might have crossed the river to get one.

So after five years I had to quit because the pain that my disability was causing was getting me into too many close calls on the road. But I had saved a small fortune. I did not buy a house because the collapse came right as I was going to apply for a loan.

Unfortunately though, because I've been out of work for a few years, about 10% it has been spent, but I still have the bulk of it and now I am looking to start a business. I just hope that my credit score has not sunk too far down because I've been out of work, but thank God I am still debt free.

That's a great testimony. And not uncommon. I'm always surprised at unbelievers that say there's no evidence for God. In a court of law, eyewitness testimony counts as evidence, I believe. And there are a lot of stories that match up.

[swamp]

Apr 19, 2011 11:42:29 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Apr 19, 2011 8:09:32 GMT -5 Bluerobin said:

Wealth is not having to worry about what you spend.

I forget who said it-- I think it was a rock star-- but I have always liked the quote that, "You are wealthy in direct proportion to the number of people you can tell to go to hell".

Nikki Sixx. The more money you have, the more people you can tell to kiss your ass.

[Tiny]

I think some people have 'beer tastes on champagne budgets'...

[readsalot]

Before I accepted Jesus Christ>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Jesus Christ, do you mean before you accepted that this story is JUST A STORY (and an un-original one at that ~ look up the story of Horus for example), or do you mean before you were brain-washed?
Give YOURSELF the credit. YOU did these good things. NOT pretend, invisible guys!

[swamp]

Apr 19, 2011 11:48:01 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Apr 19, 2011 5:15:25 GMT -5 @straydog said:

PBP:
It will be WHO you are that determines WHAT you get.

Exactly. Before I accepted Jesus Christ, I was a drunk, a gambler, and a spendthrift. After God changed my heart and my way of thinking, I started to look at money in a whole new light. I also started reading books from Kiyosaki, Orman, Bach, "The Millionaire next Door', etc.

My grandfather left me some money after he died - thankfully it was after I accepted Christ. Because if it had been before, it would have been most likely squandered away.

But instead, I opened up a savings account and I started paying down all my old debt's. Now when I inherited that money, my credit rating was at the bottom of the barrel. But years later, after the debt's were paid and I was putting every penny that I could into my saving account, when I was looking to buy a house during the boom; I checked my credit score and it was 765.

I used to be a commissioned salesman but my disability caused me to leave (I also believe that God had a hand in it and that is because the sales organizations that I worked for were asking me to lie to customers). So I swallowed my pride and started delivering pizza while in my mid 40s - I did it when I was in my twenties too.

Some may not think that it's a good job, but you would be surprised. If you have a good attitude and look neat, you can do very well in tips, and I did. I also admit that I've been staying with family and that has kept my expenses lower.

Now my store manager, who I am guessing probably made $10,000 more or so per year than I did, was constantly broke. She could not save a dime if her life depended on it. As soon as she got her paycheck, it was pretty much gone. Starbucks twice per day, always going out, continuously buying junk she didn't really have any use for. I honestly don't know how she managed her rent and car payment. Although I once heard her mention that she had gotten payday loans - although they are illegal in my state, she might have crossed the river to get one.

So after five years I had to quit because the pain that my disability was causing was getting me into too many close calls on the road. But I had saved a small fortune. I did not buy a house because the collapse came right as I was going to apply for a loan.

Unfortunately though, because I've been out of work for a few years, about 10% it has been spent, but I still have the bulk of it and now I am looking to start a business. I just hope that my credit score has not sunk too far down because I've been out of work, but thank God I am still debt free.

That's a great testimony. And not uncommon. I'm always surprised at unbelievers that say there's no evidence for God. In a court of law, eyewitness testimony counts as evidence, I believe. And there are a lot of stories that match up.

I don't really see how God did this...............