SCOTUS friendships

[thyme4change]

Clarence Thomas has accepted all kinds of free stuff from his friend, billionaire Harlan Crow. On the one hand, the guy is entitled to have friends, but he has spent a lot of time with many people of power and during that time has moved to be more conservative and align his rulings with their politics. Not to mention his whole wife thing.

I will link any old article about these trips and gifts - but I found this Daily Podcast that explains how Rob Schenck used friendships with judges, not to directly influence them, but to support and strengthen their political beliefs to push them in a direction to overturn Roe v Wade. They practiced coded language and parallel talking points during friendly visits, while avoiding any direct conversation about certain topics. It puts Thomas’s friendships in a different light for me. There is lots of information on Schenck including his testimony before congress. I have also included an article if you prefer to read.

Any thoughts? Is it time for better ethics codes for SCOTUS? How do we define those? Is it possible to actually charge Thomas for not revealing the gifts on his financial disclosure?

play.stitcher.com/episode/209098242
- New York Times “The Daily” podcast from Nov 29, 2022.

Article on Schenck

www.politico.com/news/2022/07/08/religious-right-supreme-court-00044739

The former leader of a religious right organization said he recruited and coached wealthy volunteers including a prominent Dayton, Ohio, evangelical couple to wine, dine and entertain conservative Supreme Court justices while pushing conservative positions on abortion, homosexuality, gun restrictions and other issues.

Article on Thomas and Harlan Crow

www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-scotus-undisclosed-luxury-travel-gifts-crow

Crow’s access to the justice extends to anyone the businessman chooses to invite along. Thomas’ frequent vacations at Topridge have brought him into contact with corporate executives and political activists.

During just one trip in July 2017, Thomas’ fellow guests included executives at Verizon and PricewaterhouseCoopers, major Republican donors and one of the leaders of the American Enterprise Institute, a pro-business conservative think tank, according to records reviewed by ProPublica. The painting of Thomas at Topridge shows him in conversation with Leonard Leo, the Federalist Society leader regarded as an architect of the Supreme Court’s recent turn to the right.[\quote]

[happyhoix]

Has he ever recused himself from a case involving any of his ‘friends’ he met on these trips?

I know at my company, I can’t offer anything or accept anything more expensive than a cup of coffee. I also know one of the free trips the Thomases went on was a private island hopping trip that used a private jet for transport- about 500,000 bucks worth.

It has a smell. Yes, they need to evaluate their code of ethics. I’m guess if he retired from the bench tomorrow all the free trips from friends would suddenly dry up.

[thyme4change]

The article says Crow hasn’t had any cases he was directly involved with - although there were cases that would affect his industry. Crow is also involved with activist groups that have had great effects on our judicial and political system. Thomas has not recused himself based on his friendship with Crow.

[chiver78]

Apr 12, 2023 12:01:34 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Has he ever recused himself from a case involving any of his ‘friends’ he met on these trips?

I know at my company, I can’t offer anything or accept anything more expensive than a cup of coffee. I also know one of the free trips the Thomases went on was a private island hopping trip that used a private jet for transport- about 500,000 bucks worth.

It has a smell. Yes, they need to evaluate their code of ethics. I’m guess if he retired from the bench tomorrow all the free trips from friends would suddenly dry up.

same, ish. we can do meals and business-related entertainment (think admission to trade shows, and the associated professional social engagements to those conferences) - at reasonable expense. we're actually governed by a Congressional Act - Sarbanes-Oxley (2002)

too bad SOX is limited to cover publicly traded corporations. you'd think that the SCOTUS, in preserving the laws of the PUBLIC country would also apply, but sadly it doesn't. 

[grumpyhermit]

Better ethics codes? That would imply they have any to begin with. It's well past time for some oversight to be put upon SCOTUS. The notion that it is an apolitical body above reproach by its mere existence is a fantasy that is well past its expiration date. 

The fact that we are seriously having to have a conversation about whether it is okay/appropriate for a person sitting on the highest court in the country to accept what amounts to tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars of gifts/trips when most low level grunts, with nowhere near the power and influence, can't accept things valued over like $25 bucks without getting into trouble, is just absurd. 

[pulmonarymd]

People were up in arms about gifts to physicians causing us to make less than ideal treatment decisions just because we were getting lunch. Politicians seem to think my getting a pen is a problem. Maybe they should live under the rules they expect us to live under

[swamp]

I work for NYS.  I have to do a super detailedyearly financial disclosure, and I can’t accept a gift from anyone other than family or close friends.  I can’t understand why the Supreme Court is any different.  It’s not like I’m making decisions that effect everyone in the entire country. 

[NastyWoman]

Apr 12, 2023 20:05:30 GMT -5 swamp said:

I work for NYS.  I have to do a super detailedyearly financial disclosure, and I can’t accept a gift from anyone other than family or close friends.  I can’t understand why the Supreme Court is any different.  It’s not like I’m making decisions that effect everyone in the entire country. 

Out of curiosity you have to disclose who the close friends are? Or the gifts they give you when those gifts are large? Clarence, don't accept a can of coke from him, Thomas could claim these were gifts from a close friend so these gifts would be "ok" if not disclosed? 

[bean29]

Apr 12, 2023 18:44:46 GMT -5 grumpyhermit said:

Better ethics codes? That would imply they have any to begin with. It's well past time for some oversight to be put upon SCOTUS. The notion that it is an apolitical body above reproach by its mere existence is a fantasy that is well past its expiration date. 

The fact that we are seriously having to have a conversation about whether it is okay/appropriate for a person sitting on the highest court in the country to accept what amounts to tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars of gifts/trips when most low level grunts, with nowhere near the power and influence, can't accept things valued over like $25 bucks without getting into trouble, is just absurd. 

The whole argument that Judicial Races are Nonpartisan is ridiculous. Judges are Partisan. The most Partisan Court in the Country is the Supreme Court, and the Rule of Law is no longer their Ultimate Goal.

[thyme4change]

Term limits would help. The judges would still be partisan, but they would only last some number of years - being replaced by someone who can do their own damage.

[NastyWoman]

And now there is this report:

news.yahoo.com/billionaire-harlan-crow-bought-property-185616251.html

I will admit that I never liked Clarence Thomas because I absolutely believed Anita Hill, but he always managed to keep a low profile. Lately his mask is slipping at an accelerating rate though and what we get to see is not just ugly but makes it highly questionable that he is even remotely able to render an unbiased judgement IMO.

[grumpyhermit]

Apr 13, 2023 14:09:48 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Term limits would help. The judges would still be partisan, but they would only last some number of years - being replaced by someone who can do their own damage.

Part of me says yes, and then part of me looks at the House/Senate and wonders. I'm not sure wild swings with laws constantly being done and undone is the way to go. 

I think there is also a case for expanding the court to match the number of circuit courts. 

[kadee79]

And there is more...and not just a little bit either...

From the courts

New this morning: ProPublica’s Joshua Kaplan, Justin Elliott and Alex Mierjeski have a new report out on the billionaire real estate magnate Harlan Crow’s generosity to Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas.

In 2008, Thomas decided to send his teenage grandnephew, Mark Martin, who lived with him and his wife in the Washington suburbs, to Hidden Lake Academy, a private boarding school where tuition ran more than $6,000 a month. “A bank statement for the school from July 2009, buried in unrelated court filings, shows that Crow’s company paid the July bill.”

“The payments extended beyond that month, according to Christopher Grimwood, a former administrator at the school. Crow paid Martin’s tuition the entire time he was a student there, which was about a year, Grimwood told ProPublica.”

“’Harlan picked up the tab,’ said Grimwood, who got to know Crow and the Thomases and had access to school financial information through his work as an administrator.”

“Before and after his time at Hidden Lake, Martin attended a second boarding school, Randolph-Macon Academy in Virginia. ‘Harlan said he was paying for the tuition at Randolph-Macon Academy as well,’ Grimwood said, recalling a conversation he had with Crow during a visit to the billionaire’s Adirondacks estate.”

“Thomas gained legal custody of Martin and became his legal guardian around January 1998,” Kaplan, Elliott and Mierjeski write, citing court records.

The total amount Crow spent on Martin’s education is unclear, but if Crow “paid for all four years at the two schools, the price tag could have exceeded $150,000, according to public records of tuition rates at the schools,” Kaplan, Elliott and Mierjeski write.
Thomas didn’t disclose Crow’s tuition payments, even though he did disclose another friend’s $5,000 gift for Martin’s education in 2002.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/billionaire-paid-tuition-for-justice-clarence-thomas-s-grandnephew-report-says/ar-AA1aJfDb?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=1c1fe9fd4b804047983d7665ee4df7cd&ei=40

[happyhoix]

May 4, 2023 12:49:47 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

And there is more...and not just a little bit either...

From the courts

New this morning: ProPublica’s Joshua Kaplan, Justin Elliott and Alex Mierjeski have a new report out on the billionaire real estate magnate Harlan Crow’s generosity to Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas.

In 2008, Thomas decided to send his teenage grandnephew, Mark Martin, who lived with him and his wife in the Washington suburbs, to Hidden Lake Academy, a private boarding school where tuition ran more than $6,000 a month. “A bank statement for the school from July 2009, buried in unrelated court filings, shows that Crow’s company paid the July bill.”

“The payments extended beyond that month, according to Christopher Grimwood, a former administrator at the school. Crow paid Martin’s tuition the entire time he was a student there, which was about a year, Grimwood told ProPublica.”

“’Harlan picked up the tab,’ said Grimwood, who got to know Crow and the Thomases and had access to school financial information through his work as an administrator.”

“Before and after his time at Hidden Lake, Martin attended a second boarding school, Randolph-Macon Academy in Virginia. ‘Harlan said he was paying for the tuition at Randolph-Macon Academy as well,’ Grimwood said, recalling a conversation he had with Crow during a visit to the billionaire’s Adirondacks estate.”

“Thomas gained legal custody of Martin and became his legal guardian around January 1998,” Kaplan, Elliott and Mierjeski write, citing court records.

The total amount Crow spent on Martin’s education is unclear, but if Crow “paid for all four years at the two schools, the price tag could have exceeded $150,000, according to public records of tuition rates at the schools,” Kaplan, Elliott and Mierjeski write.
Thomas didn’t disclose Crow’s tuition payments, even though he did disclose another friend’s $5,000 gift for Martin’s education in 2002.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/billionaire-paid-tuition-for-justice-clarence-thomas-s-grandnephew-report-says/ar-AA1aJfDb?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=1c1fe9fd4b804047983d7665ee4df7cd&ei=40

Wish I had ‘friends’ that paid for my son’s college tuition.

Apparently I have shitty friends.

[tallguy]

May 4, 2023 19:02:46 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

May 4, 2023 12:49:47 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

And there is more...and not just a little bit either...

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/billionaire-paid-tuition-for-justice-clarence-thomas-s-grandnephew-report-says/ar-AA1aJfDb?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=1c1fe9fd4b804047983d7665ee4df7cd&ei=40

Wish I had ‘friends’ that paid for my son’s college tuition.

Apparently I have shitty friends.

Well, if you were able to sell Supreme Court rulings I'm sure you would have better (wealthier) ones.   

[Opti]

May 4, 2023 19:02:46 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

May 4, 2023 12:49:47 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

And there is more...and not just a little bit either...

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/billionaire-paid-tuition-for-justice-clarence-thomas-s-grandnephew-report-says/ar-AA1aJfDb?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=1c1fe9fd4b804047983d7665ee4df7cd&ei=40

Wish I had ‘friends’ that paid for my son’s college tuition.

Apparently I have shitty friends.

IDK. Remember Lori Loughlin?

[kadee79]

And if you don't want to be seen 'giving' to Clarence....how about 'giving' to his wife....

Conservative judicial activist Leonard Leo arranged for the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas to be paid tens of thousands of dollars for consulting work just over a decade ago, specifying that her name be left off billing paperwork, according to documents reviewed by The Washington Post.

In January 2012, Leo instructed the GOP pollster Kellyanne Conway to bill a nonprofit group he advises and use that money to pay Virginia “Ginni” Thomas, the documents show. The same year, the nonprofit, the Judicial Education Project, filed a brief to the Supreme Court in a landmark voting rights case.

Leo, a key figure in a network of nonprofits that has worked to support the nominations of conservative judges, told Conway that he wanted her to “give” Ginni Thomas “another $25K,” the documents show. He emphasized that the paperwork should have “No mention of Ginni, of course.”

Conway’s firm, the Polling Company, sent the Judicial Education Project a $25,000 bill that day. Per Leo’s instructions, it listed the purpose as “Supplement for Constitution Polling and Opinion Consulting,” the documents show.

In all, according to the documents, the Polling Company paid Thomas’s firm, Liberty Consulting, $80,000 between June 2011 and June 2012, and it expected to pay $20,000 more before the end of 2012. The documents reviewed by The Post do not indicate the precise nature of any work Thomas did for the Judicial Education Project or the Polling Company.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/judicial-activist-directed-fees-to-clarence-thomas-s-wife-urged-no-mention-of-ginni/ar-AA1aL642?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=e2d764bac5834fdbb370ebcbbc8793c8&ei=53

[ripvanwinkle]

Well now, how about Justice Sotomeyer not recusing herself on cases she had a conflict of interest in.

www.newsweek.com/conservatives-out-sotomayor-3-million-dollar-publisher-thomas-reports-1798460

[pulmonarymd]

May 4, 2023 22:33:20 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Well now, how about Justice Sotomeyer not recusing herself on cases she had a conflict of interest in.

www.newsweek.com/conservatives-out-sotomayor-3-million-dollar-publisher-thomas-reports-1798460

Didn’t care about this until a “liberal” was caught. Since the court has no ethics code, this is ok, right. It is what, Thomas, Gorsuch, and Roberts believe. And for tha re, it is 3to 1

[happyhoix]

May 4, 2023 22:33:20 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Well now, how about Justice Sotomeyer not recusing herself on cases she had a conflict of interest in.

www.newsweek.com/conservatives-out-sotomayor-3-million-dollar-publisher-thomas-reports-1798460

I think a formal code of ethics for the Supremes is way past due. A Congressman can go to jail for accepting a trip to the Super Bowl - same should apply to the court.

So if it takes a bunch of them (conservative and left leaning) out, that’s fine, as long as we phase in the new ones over different administrations so that we have a representative mix on the court. Maybe appoint temporary justices picked by a panel of federal judges for the interim.

We could do it. We just have to want to do it, and Thomas is serving the useful purpose of demonstrating why we need to do it.

What’s especially rich is Clarence and Ginni feel like they are being picked on. They are not victims here. Snowflakes.

[seriousthistime]

May 4, 2023 22:33:20 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Well now, how about Justice Sotomeyer not recusing herself on cases she had a conflict of interest in.

www.newsweek.com/conservatives-out-sotomayor-3-million-dollar-publisher-thomas-reports-1798460

And, apparently, Gorsuch.  

This issue isn't so much about recusal, but about disclosing the information on the annual financial disclosures.  (Breyer was the only one to recuse himself on the decision not to allow the Random House appeal to be heard by the SC. So should the other justices with published books, including Thomas, have recused themselves? 

www.cnn.com/2023/05/04/politics/sonia-sotomayor-neil-gorsuch-book-recusal-supreme-court-cases/index.html

"Liberal Justice Sonia Sotomayor, who joined the court in 2009 and has been paid millions of dollars from the publisher over the years, declined to recuse herself[.] 

Conservative Justice Neil Gorsuch, who joined the court in 2017 and also has received hundreds of thousands of dollars in book deals with the publisher, declined to disqualify himself from the more recent case when it came before the court for consideration.

...

In financial disclosure forms for 2010 and 2012, Sotomayor reported receiving book advances from Knopf Doubleday that totaled $3.1 million. Her disclosure forms for the years 2017 through 2021 show that the company has paid her nearly $500,000 in book royalties and advances during that period. The disclosures for 2022 are not yet available.

Gorsuch published “A Republic, If You Can Keep It” in 2019 through Penguin. The justice has received a total of $655,000 from the publishing conglomerate in recent years, according to his 2018, 2019 and 2020 disclosures.

Justices Amy Coney Barrett and Ketanji Brown Jackson also have books in the works.