Remember when democrats screamed Trump tax cuts

[Value Buy]

were for big business and Republican billionaires and would create billions in deficits?

Turns out, not so much. In fact the Treasury is awash in money from the tax bill.
Please remember this was a ten yr plan so do not give me any gobbly gook that Biden did it.


www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-numbers-are-in-trumps-tax-cuts-paid-off/ar-AAY22Kg?li=BBnbfcL

[Tennesseer]

Don't remember too much of that.  But I do remember you voted for this guy in 2016 and 2020 knowing about this video.

What happened to your morality?  Did it ever even exist?

[dondub]

Jun 3, 2022 21:00:44 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

were for big business and Republican billionaires and would create billions in deficits?

Turns out, not so much. In fact the Treasury is awash in money from the tax bill.
Please remember this was a ten yr plan so do not give me any gobbly gook that Biden did it.


www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-numbers-are-in-trumps-tax-cuts-paid-off/ar-AAY22Kg?li=BBnbfcL

Trump cut taxes and then had $7 TRILLION in new debt. Deny that .

[Opti]

Jun 3, 2022 21:00:44 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

were for big business and Republican billionaires and would create billions in deficits?

Turns out, not so much. In fact the Treasury is awash in money from the tax bill.
Please remember this was a ten yr plan so do not give me any gobbly gook that Biden did it.


www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-numbers-are-in-trumps-tax-cuts-paid-off/ar-AAY22Kg?li=BBnbfcL

Not surprised things did well during a recovering economy, however, most of the article references forecasts which are just projections. We will have to see what actually happens instead of relying on just numbers from a couple years of an improving economy. Currently Netflix, Carvana, Tesla and possibly others are cutting workers. Some businesses got record profits during the pandemic such as various food businesses. I expect many oil companies will be in the same position soon if they are not already.


Adjusting the forecasts to actual 2022 dollars, prior to the tax cuts the government projected $40.7 trillion of income tax, corporate tax, and payroll tax revenues between 2018 and 2027. The latest budget forecasts project $41.3 trillion of revenues for that period. Instead of reducing revenues by $1.5 trillion, the latest forecasts suggest tax revenues will come in $570 billion higher than expected.

The government now expects to bring in $3.8 trillion in corporate tax revenues between 2018 and 2027, almost identical to the $3.9 trillion forecasted prior to the tax cuts. Moreover, since taxes don’t exist in a vacuum—and the corporate tax reform propelled higher income growth and therefore higher income taxes and payroll taxes—the corporate tax reform likely paid for itself.


So projected corporate revenue down .1 trillion and increase in total revenue forecast from who? The non-rich? Current economic forces of the war in Ukraine and effects of the pandemic IMO are larger. WFH created a housing bubble and rent increases are hurting most people who rent. Gas prices, food, etc. Joys of the war in Ukraine. (100+ days FWIW.  )

[Opti]

Also from article-

Similarly, a 2021 Heritage Foundation report showed the dramatic growth in investment and wages that occurred after the tax cuts.

This may not have been because of the Trump tax cuts. Laws were triggering to raise minimum wage. Retail businesses suffered greatly for staff as did hospitals and various healthcare facilities. Employers had to raise wages to comply with the law and retain workers during the pandemic. Some of those increased wages were short lived, only existing for part of the pandemic. 

ETA info posted in another thread. Wage growth was not uniform and the increases were concentrated in the higher paid occupations as expected. See the 2001 and contrasted with 2021 wages table in link below. Also growth of investment may or may not translate to higher tax revenue. If the 9+% investment really did increase tax revenue by that factor or more, the projected corporate revenue should be higher than before the tax cuts, not just slightly less. Rarely translates to wage growth IMO, but often more jobs. When Walmart or your local grocery chain expands, they don't raise wages usually, sometimes the opposite ... but they often employ more people as one would expect.


www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-numbers-are-in-trumps-tax-cuts-paid-off/ar-AAY22Kg?li=BBnbfcL

[tbop77]

President Donald Trump announced a new 10% tax cut would come into effect before the midterms, intended only for the middle class, not for businesses—nor the rich.



The only trouble? Congress isn’t in session, congressional leaders haven’t heard about it, nothing has been drafted, and Trump seemed to have invented it from whole cloth on Oct. 20, based on a confirmation provided by a White House spokesperson who spoke to CNBC.


finance.yahoo.com/research?ncid=dcm_306158756_490172245_127172993

Remember when Trump promised this before the midterms in 2018?  Talk about gobbly gook.  You might try and fool us with your thread, but he knew where the money went.  Just didn't have enough sense to keep his mouth shut, but what's new?

[busymom]

Remember the Trump health care plan?  Me neither.

[dondub]

Jun 4, 2022 10:05:37 GMT -5 busymom said:

Remember the Trump health care plan?  Me neither.

I do! It was flushed down a toilet on Fantasy Island along with his infrastructure plan.

[thyme4change]

I don't trust Heritage foundation's analysis. It seems it always, always, always strongly supports the same group. At least some of them come up with answers that are a little more nebulous or at least nuanced.

[tallguy]

Jun 4, 2022 13:54:33 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I don't trust Heritage foundation's analysis. It seems it always, always, always strongly supports the same group. At least some of them come up with answers that are a little more nebulous or at least nuanced.

The Heritage Foundation is right-wing, and has no qualms about promoting a right-wing viewpoint.  Of more concern is that the article is from The Washington Examiner, who I will not even read because they are twisted so far right.  Anything they publish should be immediately suspect.

[NastyWoman]

Jun 4, 2022 11:44:59 GMT -5 dondub said:

Jun 4, 2022 10:05:37 GMT -5 busymom said:

Remember the Trump health care plan?  Me neither.

I do! It was flushed down a toilet on Fantasy Island along with his infrastructure plan.

Wasn't the publication delayed until the IRS was done with its audit?   Oh wait, that was about his tax returns but someone might have stapled those two wonderful plans to said tax returns so not really his fault that he could not publish them. There were not enough sharpies in the WH for a rewrite. 

[djAdvocate]

Jun 3, 2022 21:00:44 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

were for big business and Republican billionaires and would create billions in deficits?

Turns out, not so much. In fact the Treasury is awash in money from the tax bill.
Please remember this was a ten yr plan so do not give me any gobbly gook that Biden did it.


www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-numbers-are-in-trumps-tax-cuts-paid-off/ar-AAY22Kg?li=BBnbfcL

this same ruse is made for every tax cut.
just because revenues recover, does NOT mean that the cuts "paid for themselves".  here is a helpful analogy (and an accurate one*).

you have a job.  you are paying your bills and not really saving*, but getting by.  
you decide that you will take a job you like better for less pay.  

fast forward five years- you are making the same amount as you made in your previous job, but during that time, your credit card debt has ballooned to five figures.

what person in their right mind would conclude that moving to the new job "paid for itself".

*note that the analogy for the US is doubling the credit card debt, since we have not had even close to a balanced budget since that wild eyed liberal Clinton was in office.

what these right wing analyses overlook is the revenues that were LOST during the time it takes to "get back to where they were".  OTA Paper 81 has analyzed these impacts really well.  it is unfortunately quite an overlooked document:


home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/tax-policy/office-of-tax-analysis-working-papers-and-technical-papers

[tbop77]

Jun 8, 2022 15:05:35 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 3, 2022 21:00:44 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

were for big business and Republican billionaires and would create billions in deficits?

Turns out, not so much. In fact the Treasury is awash in money from the tax bill.
Please remember this was a ten yr plan so do not give me any gobbly gook that Biden did it.


www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-numbers-are-in-trumps-tax-cuts-paid-off/ar-AAY22Kg?li=BBnbfcL

this same ruse is made for every tax cut.
just because revenues recover, does NOT mean that the cuts "paid for themselves".  here is a helpful analogy (and an accurate one*).

you have a job.  you are paying your bills and not really saving*, but getting by.  
you decide that you will take a job you like better for less pay.  

fast forward five years- you are making the same amount as you made in your previous job, but during that time, your credit card debt has ballooned to five figures.

what person in their right mind would conclude that moving to the new job "paid for itself".

*note that the analogy for the US is doubling the credit card debt, since we have not had even close to a balanced budget since that wild eyed liberal Clinton was in office.

what these right wing analyses overlook is the revenues that were LOST during the time it takes to "get back to where they were".  OTA Paper 81 has analyzed these impacts really well.  it is unfortunately quite an overlooked document:


home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/tax-policy/office-of-tax-analysis-working-papers-and-technical-papers

OMG!  I ask that same question when Reagan ran for President with "I can cut taxes, increase spending (military) and balance the budget.  Poor ole Jimmy, "we need to tighten out belt and get the debt under control"  

And the nerve during Obama's presidency, all they screamed about was debt.  Hear anything when Trump was there?  Nope, not a word.  

The whole fucking country should be screaming about the debt.  How irresponsible of a conservative to start a thread that tax cuts paid off when the debt ballooned another 7 trillion dollars.  How stupid can you be?

[tallguy]

Jun 9, 2022 6:25:21 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

Jun 8, 2022 15:05:35 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

this same ruse is made for every tax cut.
just because revenues recover, does NOT mean that the cuts "paid for themselves".  here is a helpful analogy (and an accurate one*).

you have a job.  you are paying your bills and not really saving*, but getting by.  
you decide that you will take a job you like better for less pay.  

fast forward five years- you are making the same amount as you made in your previous job, but during that time, your credit card debt has ballooned to five figures.

what person in their right mind would conclude that moving to the new job "paid for itself".

*note that the analogy for the US is doubling the credit card debt, since we have not had even close to a balanced budget since that wild eyed liberal Clinton was in office.

what these right wing analyses overlook is the revenues that were LOST during the time it takes to "get back to where they were".  OTA Paper 81 has analyzed these impacts really well.  it is unfortunately quite an overlooked document:


home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/tax-policy/office-of-tax-analysis-working-papers-and-technical-papers

OMG!  I ask that same question when Reagan ran for President with "I can cut taxes, increase spending (military) and balance the budget.  Poor ole Jimmy, "we need to tighten out belt and get the debt under control"  

And the nerve during Obama's presidency, all they screamed about was debt.  Hear anything when Trump was there?  Nope, not a word.  

The whole fucking country should be screaming about the debt.  How irresponsible of a conservative to start a thread that tax cuts paid off when the debt ballooned another 7 trillion dollars.  How stupid can you be?

You've read him before, right?  And yes, that bullsh** is not only a big part of what got Reagan elected, but the prime reason why his presidency was in fact a terrible one for this country.  The ideas that, "Tax cuts are a panacea for everything", "Tax cuts pay for themselves", and, "Debt and deficits don't really matter" are going to destroy this country in the end.  It won't be any external threat from a foreign power that brings us down.  It will be that.    

[happyhoix]

Jun 9, 2022 6:25:21 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

Jun 8, 2022 15:05:35 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

this same ruse is made for every tax cut.
just because revenues recover, does NOT mean that the cuts "paid for themselves".  here is a helpful analogy (and an accurate one*).

you have a job.  you are paying your bills and not really saving*, but getting by.  
you decide that you will take a job you like better for less pay.  

fast forward five years- you are making the same amount as you made in your previous job, but during that time, your credit card debt has ballooned to five figures.

what person in their right mind would conclude that moving to the new job "paid for itself".

*note that the analogy for the US is doubling the credit card debt, since we have not had even close to a balanced budget since that wild eyed liberal Clinton was in office.

what these right wing analyses overlook is the revenues that were LOST during the time it takes to "get back to where they were".  OTA Paper 81 has analyzed these impacts really well.  it is unfortunately quite an overlooked document:


home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/tax-policy/office-of-tax-analysis-working-papers-and-technical-papers

OMG!  I ask that same question when Reagan ran for President with "I can cut taxes, increase spending (military) and balance the budget.  Poor ole Jimmy, "we need to tighten out belt and get the debt under control"  

And the nerve during Obama's presidency, all they screamed about was debt.  Hear anything when Trump was there?  Nope, not a word.  

The whole fucking country should be screaming about the debt.  How irresponsible of a conservative to start a thread that tax cuts paid off when the debt ballooned another 7 trillion dollars.  How stupid can you be?

Republicans used be concerned about the debt until Trump took it over and made it into the MAGA party.

Now the only bottom line the MAGA party cares about is Trumps.

Keep your donations flowing- and be sure to pay to attend on of his patriotic rallies- make sure you splurge on the personal photo with the king.

[happyhoix]

Jun 4, 2022 9:49:47 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

President Donald Trump announced a new 10% tax cut would come into effect before the midterms, intended only for the middle class, not for businesses—nor the rich.



The only trouble? Congress isn’t in session, congressional leaders haven’t heard about it, nothing has been drafted, and Trump seemed to have invented it from whole cloth on Oct. 20, based on a confirmation provided by a White House spokesperson who spoke to CNBC.


finance.yahoo.com/research?ncid=dcm_306158756_490172245_127172993

Remember when Trump promised this before the midterms in 2018?  Talk about gobbly gook.  You might try and fool us with your thread, but he knew where the money went.  Just didn't have enough sense to keep his mouth shut, but what's new?

He drug that old horse out again in the 2020 race as well - tax cuts and cheap beautiful health care for the middle class.

[tallguy]

Jun 9, 2022 11:23:27 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Jun 9, 2022 6:25:21 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

OMG!  I ask that same question when Reagan ran for President with "I can cut taxes, increase spending (military) and balance the budget.  Poor ole Jimmy, "we need to tighten out belt and get the debt under control"  

And the nerve during Obama's presidency, all they screamed about was debt.  Hear anything when Trump was there?  Nope, not a word.  

The whole fucking country should be screaming about the debt.  How irresponsible of a conservative to start a thread that tax cuts paid off when the debt ballooned another 7 trillion dollars.  How stupid can you be?

Republicans used be concerned about the debt until Trump took it over and made it into the MAGA party.

Now the only bottom line the MAGA party cares about is Trumps.

Keep your donations flowing- and be sure to pay to attend on of his patriotic rallies- make sure you splurge on the personal photo with the king.

No.  Republicans used to be concerned about the debt until Reagan took it over.  It's been over forty years since Republicans paid any more than lip service to the debt unless they could use it as a weapon to attack Democrats.  

[dondub]

Jun 9, 2022 11:23:27 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Jun 9, 2022 6:25:21 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

OMG!  I ask that same question when Reagan ran for President with "I can cut taxes, increase spending (military) and balance the budget.  Poor ole Jimmy, "we need to tighten out belt and get the debt under control"  

And the nerve during Obama's presidency, all they screamed about was debt.  Hear anything when Trump was there?  Nope, not a word.  

The whole fucking country should be screaming about the debt.  How irresponsible of a conservative to start a thread that tax cuts paid off when the debt ballooned another 7 trillion dollars.  How stupid can you be?

Republicans used be concerned about the debt until Trump took it over and made it into the MAGA party.

Now the only bottom line the MAGA party cares about is Trumps.

Keep your donations flowing- and be sure to pay to attend on of his patriotic rallies- make sure you splurge on the personal photo with the king.

I think the Repo-Cons stopped caring about the debt while Reagan almost tripled it. They were transfixed by his cowboy granddad demeanor and forgot to notice he was f’ing us up on a permanent basis. Then W did it again and then Trump. I consider those 3 massive tax cuts to be treasonous, as like tall guy, I believe the debt is what will eventually topple our fragile democracy.

[Tennesseer]

Jun 9, 2022 11:23:27 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Jun 9, 2022 6:25:21 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

OMG!  I ask that same question when Reagan ran for President with "I can cut taxes, increase spending (military) and balance the budget.  Poor ole Jimmy, "we need to tighten out belt and get the debt under control"  

And the nerve during Obama's presidency, all they screamed about was debt.  Hear anything when Trump was there?  Nope, not a word.  

The whole fucking country should be screaming about the debt.  How irresponsible of a conservative to start a thread that tax cuts paid off when the debt ballooned another 7 trillion dollars.  How stupid can you be?

Republicans used be concerned about the debt until Trump took it over and made it into the MAGA party.

Now the only bottom line the MAGA party cares about is Trumps.

Keep your donations flowing- and be sure to pay to attend on of his patriotic rallies- make sure you splurge on the personal photo with the king.

Tickets start at $9 to attend the king's patriotic rally Saturday, June 18 at the Landers Center in Southaven, Mississippi (Memphis suburb). Speakers are:

Featured Speakers:

President Donald J. Trump
Donald Trump Jr.
Mike Pompeo
Candace Owens
Dinesh D'Souza
Kimberly Guilfoyle
Sheriff Mark Lamb
and More! (Who ever 'More' is.)

Fine group of criminals, scoundrels and Klingons.

[tallguy]

Jun 9, 2022 11:41:26 GMT -5 dondub said:

Jun 9, 2022 11:23:27 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Republicans used be concerned about the debt until Trump took it over and made it into the MAGA party.

Now the only bottom line the MAGA party cares about is Trumps.

Keep your donations flowing- and be sure to pay to attend on of his patriotic rallies- make sure you splurge on the personal photo with the king.

I think the Repo-Cons stopped caring about the debt while Reagan almost tripled it. They were transfixed by his cowboy granddad demeanor and forgot to notice he was f’ing us up on a permanent basis. Then W did it again and then Trump. I consider those 3 massive tax cuts to be treasonous, as like tall guy, I believe the debt is what eventually toppled our fragile democracy.

I hope you mean "topples" rather than toppled.  I don't think we are finished quite yet.  

What I mentioned before used to be the primary reason why the Reagan presidency was a disaster for America.  I have since added his embrace of the Religious Right as equally bad.  The toxic mix of religion and political power screwed up both politics and religion in this country.  It is not certain that either is in any way salvageable as long as they are mixed.

[dondub]

Jun 9, 2022 11:50:40 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Jun 9, 2022 11:41:26 GMT -5 dondub said:

I think the Repo-Cons stopped caring about the debt while Reagan almost tripled it. They were transfixed by his cowboy granddad demeanor and forgot to notice he was f’ing us up on a permanent basis. Then W did it again and then Trump. I consider those 3 massive tax cuts to be treasonous, as like tall guy, I believe the debt is what eventually toppled our fragile democracy.

I hope you mean "topples" rather than toppled.  I don't think we are finished quite yet.  

What I mentioned before used to be the primary reason why the Reagan presidency was a disaster for America.  I have since added his embrace of the Religious Right as equally bad.  The toxic mix of religion and political power screwed up both politics and religion in this country.  It is not certain that either is in any way salvageable as long as they are mixed.

We may have entered a new phase that’s even worse:

www.nytimes.com/2022/06/01/opinion/republicans-religion-conservatism.html

[djAdvocate]

Jun 4, 2022 3:14:34 GMT -5 Opti said:

Also from article-

Similarly, a 2021 Heritage Foundation report showed the dramatic growth in investment and wages that occurred after the tax cuts.

This may not have been because of the Trump tax cuts. Laws were triggering to raise minimum wage. Retail businesses suffered greatly for staff as did hospitals and various healthcare facilities. Employers had to raise wages to comply with the law and retain workers during the pandemic. Some of those increased wages were short lived, only existing for part of the pandemic. 

ETA info posted in another thread. Wage growth was not uniform and the increases were concentrated in the higher paid occupations as expected. See the 2001 and contrasted with 2021 wages table in link below. Also growth of investment may or may not translate to higher tax revenue. If the 9+% investment really did increase tax revenue by that factor or more, the projected corporate revenue should be higher than before the tax cuts, not just slightly less. Rarely translates to wage growth IMO, but often more jobs. When Walmart or your local grocery chain expands, they don't raise wages usually, sometimes the opposite ... but they often employ more people as one would expect.


www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-numbers-are-in-trumps-tax-cuts-paid-off/ar-AAY22Kg?li=BBnbfcL

what Heritage does is like a magic act.  they show you the part of the data that they want you to see to make their point, but the rest of the data shows you that it is all an illusion.  for example, consider this:

if you compare economic growth and jobs growth for the five year period following the largest three tax INCREASES since WW2 with the economic growth and jobs growth for the five year period following the largest three tax DECREASES since WW2, they are nearly IDENTICAL.

think about that.  this is not me making a case that tax decreases perform no better than neutral tax policy.  that would be mild by comparison.  this is me making the case that tax decreases perform no better economically than THEIR POLAR OPPOSITE.  and yeah, anyone can prove that.  the data is out there, easily obtained.

but it is easier to say pithy bullshit like "tax cuts pay for themselves" than it is to crunch the data, so the Trump Cult just smokes the opium, sits back, and nods.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 3, 2022 21:00:44 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

were for big business and Republican billionaires and would create billions in deficits?

Turns out, not so much. In fact the Treasury is awash in money from the tax bill.
Please remember this was a ten yr plan so do not give me any gobbly gook that Biden did it.


www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-numbers-are-in-trumps-tax-cuts-paid-off/ar-AAY22Kg?li=BBnbfcL

i like what you did here.
you managed to find a Heritage Foundation puff piece that was published by the Mooney Times on MSN.  this must be the same way that Ivermectin is sold.

i don't trust Heritage on tax issue questions, and neither should you.  you should really use neutral sources like the OTA (non partisan analysis within the Federal Government- it really does not get more neutral than that) or some centrist thinktank if you can find one.  but Heritage has an agenda to push, and that agenda does not have to do with sensible tax policy and balanced budgets.

eta: thanks for posting this thread.  it is a good place to post factual information that challenges the Heritage Narrative.  hopefully you and others will read it.  it is not super difficult economics, as the facts are there.  you don't have to know about superposition to discern the facts about GDP and job growth, as an example.  nor do you have to understand about tax policy to judge for yourself how supply side economics has impacted the debt.  but just to be clear: supply side economics has dominated US fiscal and tax policy since Reagan, and for good reason: it purports to have a way to have your cake and eat it too, which everyone loves.  unfortunately, as with most things that are too good to be true, it is too good to be true, which the St Louis Fed Graph i posted, as well as ALL of the data on this subject which decouples revenue generation from background economic effects shows.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 9, 2022 11:41:26 GMT -5 dondub said:

Jun 9, 2022 11:23:27 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Republicans used be concerned about the debt until Trump took it over and made it into the MAGA party.

Now the only bottom line the MAGA party cares about is Trumps.

Keep your donations flowing- and be sure to pay to attend on of his patriotic rallies- make sure you splurge on the personal photo with the king.

I think the Repo-Cons stopped caring about the debt while Reagan almost tripled it. They were transfixed by his cowboy granddad demeanor and forgot to notice he was f’ing us up on a permanent basis. Then W did it again and then Trump. I consider those 3 massive tax cuts to be treasonous, as like tall guy, I believe the debt is what will eventually topple our fragile democracy.

i think the plan is to create enough debt that the GOP can claim (somewhat correctly) that our obligation to pay our debt exceeds that of "entitlements".  in other words, rather than just taxing appropriate to spending, they plan on undertaxing to the point where spending has to be cut.  but it won't be cut from THEIR military bullshit.  it will be cut for programs and services that help regular citizens.  

[djAdvocate]

Jun 9, 2022 11:41:26 GMT -5 dondub said:

Jun 9, 2022 11:23:27 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Republicans used be concerned about the debt until Trump took it over and made it into the MAGA party.

Now the only bottom line the MAGA party cares about is Trumps.

Keep your donations flowing- and be sure to pay to attend on of his patriotic rallies- make sure you splurge on the personal photo with the king.

I think the Repo-Cons stopped caring about the debt while Reagan almost tripled it. They were transfixed by his cowboy granddad demeanor and forgot to notice he was f’ing us up on a permanent basis. Then W did it again and then Trump. I consider those 3 massive tax cuts to be treasonous, as like tall guy, I believe the debt is what will eventually topple our fragile democracy.

in 1981, the debt hit a post WW2 low of 31% of GDP before the supply side bullshit started.  since that time, it has risen to a record high of over 120%- exceeding the previous record set in 1946.


i was not kidding about that war economy comment.


borrowing 100% of GDP for war is like mortgaging your house to buy crack.  it does absolutely nothing for you other than put you in a place where you could lose the house.


fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDGDPA188S

[busymom]

Jun 9, 2022 11:55:37 GMT -5 dondub said:

Jun 9, 2022 11:50:40 GMT -5 tallguy said:

I hope you mean "topples" rather than toppled.  I don't think we are finished quite yet.  

What I mentioned before used to be the primary reason why the Reagan presidency was a disaster for America.  I have since added his embrace of the Religious Right as equally bad.  The toxic mix of religion and political power screwed up both politics and religion in this country.  It is not certain that either is in any way salvageable as long as they are mixed.

We may have entered a new phase that’s even worse:

www.nytimes.com/2022/06/01/opinion/republicans-religion-conservatism.html

     I can't get into this link, but if you could quote a paragraph or two, that'd be great.  Thanks!

[tallguy]

Jun 9, 2022 12:19:01 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 9, 2022 11:41:26 GMT -5 dondub said:

I think the Repo-Cons stopped caring about the debt while Reagan almost tripled it. They were transfixed by his cowboy granddad demeanor and forgot to notice he was f’ing us up on a permanent basis. Then W did it again and then Trump. I consider those 3 massive tax cuts to be treasonous, as like tall guy, I believe the debt is what will eventually topple our fragile democracy.

i think the plan is to create enough debt that the GOP can claim (somewhat correctly) that our obligation to pay our debt exceeds that of "entitlements".  in other words, rather than just taxing appropriate to spending, they plan on undertaxing to the point where spending has to be cut.  but it won't be cut from THEIR military bullshit.  it will be cut for programs and services that help regular citizens.  

That is another reason I cannot stand the modern GOP.  We hear about the "tax-and-spend" liberals and the "borrow-and-spend" conservatives.  The common denominator, and the real issue, is the "and-spend" part.  Both parties spend too much.  Where the Democrats have the moral high ground is:

1)  They are willing to at least attempt to pay for some of their spending through current taxes, rather than pushing it all off onto future generations.

2)  The overspending that Democrats do is targeted towards people who actually need it.  The spending that Republicans do is targeted towards people who don't.


Yes, I would be happier if we ran our government more efficiently and effectively.  Given we seem to be unable to do that, however, I prefer the Democratic version to the blatantly corrupt GOP version.  They can pretty much all burn in Hell, and I would send them there myself if I could.

[dondub]

Jun 9, 2022 13:09:26 GMT -5 busymom said:

Jun 9, 2022 11:55:37 GMT -5 dondub said:

We may have entered a new phase that’s even worse:

www.nytimes.com/2022/06/01/opinion/republicans-religion-conservatism.html

     I can't get into this link, but if you could quote a paragraph or two, that'd be great.  Thanks!

A large portion can be found in here:

goadnews.com/reviews-republicans-are-now-the-party-of-the-non-religious-right/amp/

[djAdvocate]

Jun 9, 2022 13:25:13 GMT -5 dondub said:

Jun 9, 2022 13:09:26 GMT -5 busymom said:

     I can't get into this link, but if you could quote a paragraph or two, that'd be great.  Thanks!

A large portion can be found in here:

goadnews.com/reviews-republicans-are-now-the-party-of-the-non-religious-right/amp/

interesting analysis.  social conservatism is a "bridge to nowhere" for libertarians.

actually, if you follow myself and tallguy closely, this hews close to one of our central political objections.

[Tennesseer]

Jun 9, 2022 13:09:26 GMT -5 busymom said:

Jun 9, 2022 11:55:37 GMT -5 dondub said:

We may have entered a new phase that’s even worse:

www.nytimes.com/2022/06/01/opinion/republicans-religion-conservatism.html

     I can't get into this link, but if you could quote a paragraph or two, that'd be great.  Thanks!

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