The Official Pro boards Expatriating Thread

[djAdvocate]

there seems to be some board interest in this subject, so i thought i would start a thread.

the first question everyone asks is WHY?  why would you expatriate?  here are some reasons:

1) you like a particular type of climate that is not in the US.  if you like Tropical climates, this is not your place.  if you like Mediterranean climates, this is not your place.  there are tons of places with Tropical climates in the world.  there are only a few places with Mediterranean climates.

2) the cost of living here is too high.  this is a terrific reason to move.  there are tons of places to live that have lower cost of living than the US.  housing cost is perhaps the most crucial one to look at here.

3) concern over healthcare issues.  this is another good reason to consider, particularly as you approach retirement.  eldercare in the US is upwards of $10k/month.  if you can't afford that, you really should consider another place to live.

4) politics, political stability, etc.  i think this is a fairly weak reason to go.  but if you find the politics here infuriating- ie- the fact that we can't seem to work together to get even SIMPLE things done, then there are lots of places where civic duty and general welfare matter far more than the US.

5) other.  there are health and safety issues.  there is paid vacation and paid leave.  there are environmental issues.  there are traffic issues.  there is access to music and culture.  desire to have a second citizenship and passport.  there are countless other reasons.  name them on this thread.

the first thing to do when working with a complex problem like this is make a "decision matrix".  i made a spreadsheet where i ranked all of my variables in order of importance from 1 to 10, then ranked each country from 1 to 10 in EACH CATEGORY, then i multiplied to two together and took the three LOWEST scores (1x1 = best).  you should do the same. 

i have spent a lot of time analyzing these variables, and looking at "citizenship schemes" to gain access to healthcare, etc in various countries.  hit me up with questions. 

[djAdvocate]

addendum to #4 is that you see the US as having reached the high water mark of liberalism in 1973, and has been spending the last 50 years turning back the clock.  that one of my issues, i will admit. in other words, it is not that the US is awful, it is that is not great, and it is getting WORSE.

[finnime]

I am very interested in pursuing this topic. I am eligible now for citizenship in Finland, where 2 of my grandparents immigrated from and a third grandparent's parents are from.

The social democracy they have in the northern European countries I find very supportive of good life, relatively free from impoverishment due to healthcare and related costs, or education expenses. Children are cherished and generally not subject to being hunted with assault rifles. Costs for many things are high, but not much higher than a HCOLA here, and the overall cost of living is much lower given that healthcare and education are very reasonable. Taxes are high, of course, but again, not so high as to impoverish you. There are Finnish multi-millionaires and billionaires.

Winters are harsh, so taking a break and traveling to another (Mediterranean?) country in February and March makes sense.

[chiver78]

May 30, 2022 4:08:59 GMT -5 finnime said:

Costs for many things are high, but not much higher than a HCOLA here, and the overall cost of living is much lower given that healthcare and education are very reasonable. Taxes are high, of course, but again, not so high as to impoverish you.

to echo this, I briefly considered a job that would have had me relocate to Iceland. the British recruiter explained that the COL was higher there than in the US, and I found a number of COL comparator tools that all said I'd be doing better in Reykjavik than in the greater Boston area. 😳🤯

[Deleted]

May 30, 2022 1:07:00 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

3) concern over healthcare issues.  this is another good reason to consider, particularly as you approach retirement.  eldercare in the US is upwards of $10k/month.  if you can't afford that, you really should consider another place to live.

But what LTC options are there in Costa Rica or Mexico? When I read stories of happy ex-pats they're usually walking and bicycling everywhere and their quality of life is heavily dependent on their mobility.   Back when I was working I listened to a webinar on how workplaces had to change to accommodate an aging workforce and one expert said that in Japan, where there was a high % of old people, 80-year old ladies were assembling electronics at work stations that could accommodate wheel chairs and were equipped with giant magnifying glasses.   In developing countries I think they depend more on family to care for aging loved ones.

Do you go back to the US when you can't live independently and expect family to help or file for Medicaid?

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I think you have missed a few reasons why people would expatriate.  

One (at least for us) is looking at a different style of life.  We adored both Portugal and Uruguay.  They had climates comparable to wear we live, but allow us to immerse in the culture for experiences.  South Africa is on our short list too, but the lack of stability is worrisome.  I still want to go back though.

The other advantage is that we want to travel.  Flying across an ocean a few times a year is expensive and hard on the body (especially the older you get).  It would be much easier to have Lisbon as a jumping off point for travel than Seattle…..8 time zones away.  

However, as much as we like this idea, TD is not willing to be that far away from his mom right now on other than a temporary basis.  TBH, the idea of being this far from the orthopedic surgeon who put me back together is just a little unsettling too.  My surgeon has a huge foreign patient base and has patients fly in from all over the world as he is known for handling difficult cases.  

TD has a friend who is an expatriate in Chaing Mai and keeps trying to talk TD into retiring there. We haven’t gone yet, likely in 2024 as we have a cruise that starts in Thailand.

[Deleted]

I once saw a tongue-in-cheek article in The Times of India suggesting that LTC be "outsourced" by countries such as the US to India. They pointed out their reverence for old people although I saw plenty in the streets barley subsisting), low wages and the (mostly) pleasant climate. They made some decent points but I could not imagine being that far from family.

[Bonny]

May 30, 2022 1:07:00 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

there seems to be some board interest in this subject, so i thought i would start a thread.

the first question everyone asks is WHY?  why would you expatriate?  here are some reasons:

1) you like a particular type of climate that is not in the US.  if you like Tropical climates, this is not your place.  if you like Mediterranean climates, this is not your place.  there are tons of places with Tropical climates in the world.  there are only a few places with Mediterranean climates.



i have spent a lot of time analyzing these variables, and looking at "citizenship schemes" to gain access to healthcare, etc in various countries.  hit me up with questions. 

Most of coastal CA is considered Mediterranean climate.

HI is tropical.

We visited New Zealand a few years ago and we loved it. We had rented an Air BnB, an attic apartment in an old sea captain's home. It was sunny and warm with a gorgeous view of Nelson Bay. We had been dealing with some very difficult aging parent issues. I turned to DH and said "Do want to chuck it all and move here?" Minimum 17 hours to physically respond to family drama therefore someone else would have to deal with it. It was tempting.

I did a tiny bit of research where we could become citizens if we moved something like $5M of assets. But as beautiful as it is New Zealand has its issues too. Almost all the young people leave for Australia or the U.S. for better opportunities. One thing I do know I couldn't handle would be their winter (our summer). It's so far south that it would be like our very far Northwest. I lived in Germany and being that far north was sooooo gloomy. I've never been diagnosed officially with SAD but I sure have the symptoms. Shuttling every six months between New Zealand and CA (or some other Mediterranean climate) would get old fast and be expensive.

[jerseygirl]

Would love to move to more temperate climate - Hawaii, Spain or Italy. All beautiful!
But we see even people moving to Florida going back home when health starts to deteriorate to live near kids
We stayed in Hawaii once for 5 weeks and tempted to move there. But we’d be far from family and didn’t want that

[laterbloomer]

djAdvocate I would be very interested in your analysis. What are your top 3 considerations/places and why?

[taz157]

May 30, 2022 9:50:44 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Would love to move to more temperate climate - Hawaii, Spain or Italy. All beautiful!
But we see even people moving to Florida going back home when health starts to deteriorate to live near kids
We stayed in Hawaii once for 5 weeks and tempted to move there. But we’d be far from family and didn’t want that

One of my co-workers has a daughter that's getting ready to move there with her DH and 2 kids. They had gone for vacation and loved it! Made the decision, sold their house, and getting ready to move there in early July. Both of them already have jobs lined up. It will be interesting to see how long they last as there will be NO family close by...

DH and I moved to Florida for 10 years and moved back just before DD1 started kindergarten. When we left, we had no kids and decided why not. We loved where we lived first then DH got promoted and transferred 4.5 hours south of where we had landed in FL. Needless to say, we last 3 years in the new location and left. It was way toooo hot way toooo long for our tastes. If we hadn't moved down south, I'm not sure if we would have moved back to our home state as we really did enjoy where we lived initially in FL. Now we are closer to family (has it perks and drawbacks) though.

[chiver78]

didn't someone from this board up and move to Hawaii awhile back? I think they moved back home by now, can't remember who it was.

[Sharon]

May 30, 2022 10:04:02 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

didn't someone from this board up and move to Hawaii awhile back? I think they moved back home by now, can't remember who it was.

I believe it was dianartemis

[stillmovingforward]

I had a coworker who retired to southern Spain. Housing was expensive where he moved but he loved the lifestyle. He went over several times before making the decision.

[NastyWoman]

May 30, 2022 8:31:51 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I think you have missed a few reasons why people would expatriate.  

One (at least for us) is looking at a different style of life.  We adored both Portugal and Uruguay.  They had climates comparable to wear we live, but allow us to immerse in the culture for experiences.  South Africa is on our short list too, but the lack of stability is worrisome.  I still want to go back though.

The other advantage is that we want to travel.  Flying across an ocean a few times a year is expensive and hard on the body (especially the older you get).  It would be much easier to have Lisbon as a jumping off point for travel than Seattle…..8 time zones away.  

However, as much as we like this idea, TD is not willing to be that far away from his mom right now on other than a temporary basis.  TBH, the idea of being this far from the orthopedic surgeon who put me back together is just a little unsettling too.  My surgeon has a huge foreign patient base and has patients fly in from all over the world as he is known for handling difficult cases.  

TD has a friend who is an expatriate in Chaing Mai and keeps trying to talk TD into retiring there. We haven’t gone yet, likely in 2024 as we have a cruise that starts in Thailand.

Chiang Mai is a really nice place. Not as hot as Bangkok and definitely less expensive. But still too hot and, most importantly, too humid for me

ETA: and still no family nearby which is the reason I want to move. If Covid taught me anything it is that you can't count on traveling always being possible.

[happyhoix]

I lived in Europe for a decade and there are many appealing things about living there. If I could live anywhere, I’d find an apartment in the Netherlands or Belgium and use the railways (including high speed rail) to leisurely travel over the continent, visiting the historic sites and eating my way through the various cuisines.

The problem is, my DS and his lovely wife are in the states, and once they have kids, I want to be close enough I can be their back up babysitter. I want to be able to take the kids to the aquarium and the river park. If we suddenly invented magic portals that popped up over oceans and mountains (cheaply) I’d move to Europe in a heartbeat. Stuck with current technology, I’m stuck living near where DS lives (with plenty of extended vacations, hopefully).

[Deleted]

This is a very interesting thread for me/us. I would love to live in Mexico but there are significant safety issues.

I would like to hear from folks about how SS and pensions are or aren't taxed when living abroad. Investment income, RMD's ?

[Deleted]

May 30, 2022 18:32:51 GMT -5 soupandstew said:

This is a very interesting thread for me/us. I would love to live in Mexico but there are significant safety issues.

I was in La Paz, Mexico before and after a cruise and felt perfectly safe wandering around by myself during the day.  We arrived in the evening and the local ice cream shop (which I later tried) was filled with families sitting at the outside tables and socializing.  There was a great free newspaper called "The Gringo Gazette" with articles on local issues and ads from health insurance providers and other local businesses.  There were also a ton of dental clinics, which likely also serve people coming in from the US for major work such as dental implants.

I'd also been edgy about Mexico and was pleasantly surprised.  I could see why Americans would settle there although I'd still have concerns about long-term care.  

[TheOtherMe]

A cousin who is 5 years older than me bought a house in Mexico.  She considers that home.  She's retired.  I don't know how her finances work.  

[debthaven]

This thread is very interesting!

I live in France, if anyone has questions about France. I live in a suburb of Paris. I wish we had a vacation house, but we don't LOL.

I have a friend who divorced her wealthy husband, bought a small flat in Paris, rented it out, and lived in Chiang Mai until her flat was paid off, at which point she moved back. Chiang Mai is indeed beautiful! I could see living there for a year or two, but not retiring full time there. It's just too different, and too far from our loved ones.

Years ago my DS1 spent 6 months in Panama working for the UN. We spent a month with him, using his apartment as a base, travelling, and meeting up with him every weekend. That summer we spent 3 weeks in Panama and a week in Costa Rica. We LOVED Central America! There were a LOT of retired US ex-pats in both countries. Both countries have stellar medical care at greatly reduced cost, and therefore a lot of medical and dental tourism.

DS1 had to be hospitalized in Panama City. We freaked out, then realized the hospital was excellent. When he left the hospital 48 hours later, his health issue had been well-treated, and he was billed ... exactly 1USD, for the coffee he had ordered. He got stellar medical care there! (I know the UN required medical insurance, but still ... 1USD for a coffee!!!)

Barcelona is lovely, but it gets VERY crowded/rowdy/unsafe in summer. If you're really considering it, I'd suggest living in the outskirts, or at least not in/too near the Ramblas. Or leaving/subletting your place out for the summer. We went to Sitges for a wedding last year. We liked it there too, and it felt MCUH less crazy than Barcelona. (Both the bride and groom lived in Barcelona at the time, they still do.)

We are retiring soon, so we have thought VERY long and hard about all of this. To us, there are two considerations:

- proximity to family. In our case, that means our kids/grandkids. We have 2 kids in France (one in Paris, the other in the Alps which is 6 hours away) and 2 kids + 2 grandkids in London. We want to be able to travel to them easily, and have them travel to us easily. 

- living in a "travel hub". Our London kids travel to Paris relatively often, either for work, or to get better deals, or just to see us. If we didn't live in a suburb of Paris, we'd probably see much less of them than we do now. 

For both of those reasons, we'll probably stay where we are. Also, we have excellent medical care here (although we pay plenty in taxes for it).

[busymom]

DH & I decided to "try out" Florida before retirement, due to a transfer opportunity through his company.  The people there were great, but services, wait times to get medical care/dental, expense of medical care, and the costs of food, insurance, etc. were AWFUL.  We moved back to the Midwest, and within 6 months we were back to putting money away, whereas Florida we were literally spending as quickly as we made money (not on purpose.  The high cost of living.)

I'm interested in countries with medical care as good or better than what's available in the US, without obscene costs.  I want reasonably priced food, and availability.  And, I'd like to be within a couple of hours of an airport, so it's easy to visit family.  I'm NOT interested in freezing to death in the Winter, but I don't require tropical weather either.  Just comfortable.  And, I want good options for aging in place when I get old.  

[djAdvocate]

May 30, 2022 4:08:59 GMT -5 finnime said:

I am very interested in pursuing this topic. I am eligible now for citizenship in Finland, where 2 of my grandparents immigrated from and a third grandparent's parents are from.

The social democracy they have in the northern European countries I find very supportive of good life, relatively free from impoverishment due to healthcare and related costs, or education expenses. Children are cherished and generally not subject to being hunted with assault rifles. Costs for many things are high, but not much higher than a HCOLA here, and the overall cost of living is much lower given that healthcare and education are very reasonable. Taxes are high, of course, but again, not so high as to impoverish you. There are Finnish multi-millionaires and billionaires.

Winters are harsh, so taking a break and traveling to another (Mediterranean?) country in February and March makes sense.

if you can tolerate the climate, i think Finland is a terrific place.  
taxes are high, but social equity is also high.
what most Americans miss is that sure, we have moderate taxation.
but we pay out of pocket for our vacations and our healthcare.
that is something almost unheard of in Europe, where paid vacations
and socialized medicine is the norm.
when you factor lower cost of living (due to lower cost of housing) i think
you come out well ahead in Scandanavia.
PS- the music scene is quite good in Scandanvia, if you like music. 

[djAdvocate]

May 30, 2022 7:16:08 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

May 30, 2022 4:08:59 GMT -5 finnime said:

Costs for many things are high, but not much higher than a HCOLA here, and the overall cost of living is much lower given that healthcare and education are very reasonable. Taxes are high, of course, but again, not so high as to impoverish you.

to echo this, I briefly considered a job that would have had me relocate to Iceland. the British recruiter explained that the COL was higher there than in the US, and I found a number of COL comparator tools that all said I'd be doing better in Reykjavik than in the greater Boston area. 😳🤯

you would be doing better in Iceland than on EITHER of the coasts.
in addition, Iceland has tremendous social justice.  it is now considered the free speech capital of the world, and women's rights are at their absolute apex there.
furthermore, it is a really great location to travel FROM.  Icelandic Air goes to most major cities, and it a 3 hour flight to places like Paris, Barcelona, Porto, Holland, and an even shorter trip to London and Belfast.  you could do a lot worse than Iceland.

[djAdvocate]

May 30, 2022 7:34:07 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

May 30, 2022 1:07:00 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

3) concern over healthcare issues.  this is another good reason to consider, particularly as you approach retirement.  eldercare in the US is upwards of $10k/month.  if you can't afford that, you really should consider another place to live.

But what LTC options are there in Costa Rica or Mexico? When I read stories of happy ex-pats they're usually walking and bicycling everywhere and their quality of life is heavily dependent on their mobility.   Back when I was working I listened to a webinar on how workplaces had to change to accommodate an aging workforce and one expert said that in Japan, where there was a high % of old people, 80-year old ladies were assembling electronics at work stations that could accommodate wheel chairs and were equipped with giant magnifying glasses.   In developing countries I think they depend more on family to care for aging loved ones.

Do you go back to the US when you can't live independently and expect family to help or file for Medicaid?

i have long considered CR a great location for living out my later years.  but it is not because they have awesome LTC facilities.  it is because you could hire a full time live-in nurse for about $1,500 per month.  this is not someone that would be dividing her time between you and 18 other patients in your ward.  that would be YOUR person.  i think that would be vastly superior to spending $10k/month for less attentive service.

i can't tell you about medicare and medicaid and what you could get for that.  but i know that medicare and medicaid don't help at ALL for your living situation.  and i watched two of my elder family members (dad and MIL) get bankrupted by it, leaving their kids with nothing but misery and bills.

[djAdvocate]

May 30, 2022 8:31:51 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I think you have missed a few reasons why people would expatriate.  

One (at least for us) is looking at a different style of life.  We adored both Portugal and Uruguay.  They had climates comparable to wear we live, but allow us to immerse in the culture for experiences.  South Africa is on our short list too, but the lack of stability is worrisome.  I still want to go back though.

The other advantage is that we want to travel.  Flying across an ocean a few times a year is expensive and hard on the body (especially the older you get).  It would be much easier to have Lisbon as a jumping off point for travel than Seattle…..8 time zones away.  

However, as much as we like this idea, TD is not willing to be that far away from his mom right now on other than a temporary basis.  TBH, the idea of being this far from the orthopedic surgeon who put me back together is just a little unsettling too.  My surgeon has a huge foreign patient base and has patients fly in from all over the world as he is known for handling difficult cases.  

TD has a friend who is an expatriate in Chaing Mai and keeps trying to talk TD into retiring there. We haven’t gone yet, likely in 2024 as we have a cruise that starts in Thailand.

your bolded one is a huge one for me.  i am a really serious Europhile.  so, getting there in 3-5 hours rather than 8-12 is a big deal for me.  when i say "THERE" i mean EVERYWHERE in Europe.  so if it is not within 5 hours i am not interested.  that is another thing pushing me out of the US.

my parents are both dead now.  so, i get that consideration.  it is not an easy decision to make for those that have elderly parents that are unwilling to move with you.

[djAdvocate]

May 30, 2022 9:30:31 GMT -5 Bonny said:

May 30, 2022 1:07:00 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

there seems to be some board interest in this subject, so i thought i would start a thread.

the first question everyone asks is WHY?  why would you expatriate?  here are some reasons:

1) you like a particular type of climate that is not in the US.  if you like Tropical climates, this is not your place.  if you like Mediterranean climates, this is not your place.  there are tons of places with Tropical climates in the world.  there are only a few places with Mediterranean climates.



i have spent a lot of time analyzing these variables, and looking at "citizenship schemes" to gain access to healthcare, etc in various countries.  hit me up with questions. 

Most of coastal CA is considered Mediterranean climate.

HI is tropical.

We visited New Zealand a few years ago and we loved it. We had rented an Air BnB, an attic apartment in an old sea captain's home. It was sunny and warm with a gorgeous view of Nelson Bay. We had been dealing with some very difficult aging parent issues. I turned to DH and said "Do want to chuck it all and move here?" Minimum 17 hours to physically respond to family drama therefore someone else would have to deal with it. It was tempting.

I did a tiny bit of research where we could become citizens if we moved something like $5M of assets. But as beautiful as it is New Zealand has its issues too. Almost all the young people leave for Australia or the U.S. for better opportunities. One thing I do know I couldn't handle would be their winter (our summer). It's so far south that it would be like our very far Northwest. I lived in Germany and being that far north was sooooo gloomy. I've never been diagnosed officially with SAD but I sure have the symptoms. Shuttling every six months between New Zealand and CA (or some other Mediterranean climate) would get old fast and be expensive.

you are right about the CA coastal reason being considered Meditteranan.  the problem is that the prevailing currents mean that he water is intemperate.  i don't really think of 55F water as Mediterranean. 

i can't remember where i saw it, but there is a particular Koppen class of climate that i find preferable that really is not present in California, except in San Diego and the very northern part of Mexico.  but i stand corrected.  most places categorize CA as Mediterranean.

i wasn't thinking of Hawaii when i said US, but yes.  Hawaii has a tropical climate, and there are some other US territories (like Midway and Puerto Rico) that do, as well.

i love AU and NZ for the same reason you do, but never seriously considered them because they are so far from Europe and the US.  there is simply not enough "there" to take me there.  but i think they are wonderful places.  very civilized.

[djAdvocate]

May 30, 2022 9:50:44 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Would love to move to more temperate climate - Hawaii, Spain or Italy. All beautiful!
But we see even people moving to Florida going back home when health starts to deteriorate to live near kids
We stayed in Hawaii once for 5 weeks and tempted to move there. But we’d be far from family and didn’t want that

where is your family?, if you don't mind me asking.

keep in mind that your family can come to you if you choose a good place.
just a thought for you.  YOU are the one that can't move around a lot.
but they can.  they are younger, right?

[djAdvocate]

May 30, 2022 10:18:17 GMT -5 stillmovingforward said:

I had a coworker who retired to southern Spain. Housing was expensive where he moved but he loved the lifestyle. He went over several times before making the decision.

Southern Spain is a pretty broad swath.  you have Barcelona in the East and Seville in the West.  these are very different places, and pretty widely varying in terms of cost.

do you mind me asking what part of Southern Spain you are talking about?

[djAdvocate]

May 30, 2022 9:58:42 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

djAdvocate I would be very interested in your analysis. What are your top 3 considerations/places and why?

here is my list of considerations:

healthcare (value), climate, cost of rent, proximity to Europe, the ability to gain citizenship, and the predominance of English, in that order.

the countries that scored best were, in order:

Malta, Italy, Portugal, Spain, Gibraltar, Malaysia, and Slovenia

i chose rent because everything seems to hinge on it in terms of COL.  i came up with a list of about 25 countries.  i put the US on the list.  it came in 20th.  i later added Turkey.  it came in 3rd.

for some reason, Italy never really made it to my TRAVEL list.  i should go back there and give it another look before i make up my mind where i want to die.

[djAdvocate]

May 30, 2022 19:52:40 GMT -5 debthaven said:

This thread is very interesting!

I live in France, if anyone has questions about France. I live in a suburb of Paris. I wish we had a vacation house, but we don't LOL.

I have a friend who divorced her wealthy husband, bought a small flat in Paris, rented it out, and lived in Chiang Mai until her flat was paid off, at which point she moved back. Chiang Mai is indeed beautiful! I could see living there for a year or two, but not retiring full time there. It's just too different, and too far from our loved ones.

Years ago my DS1 spent 6 months in Panama working for the UN. We spent a month with him, using his apartment as a base, travelling, and meeting up with him every weekend. That summer we spent 3 weeks in Panama and a week in Costa Rica. We LOVED Central America! There were a LOT of retired US ex-pats in both countries. Both countries have stellar medical care at greatly reduced cost, and therefore a lot of medical and dental tourism.

DS1 had to be hospitalized in Panama City. We freaked out, then realized the hospital was excellent. When he left the hospital 48 hours later, his health issue had been well-treated, and he was billed ... exactly 1USD, for the coffee he had ordered. He got stellar medical care there! (I know the UN required medical insurance, but still ... 1USD for a coffee!!!)

Barcelona is lovely, but it gets VERY crowded/rowdy/unsafe in summer. If you're really considering it, I'd suggest living in the outskirts, or at least not in/too near the Ramblas. Or leaving/subletting your place out for the summer. We went to Sitges for a wedding last year. We liked it there too, and it felt MCUH less crazy than Barcelona. (Both the bride and groom lived in Barcelona at the time, they still do.)

We are retiring soon, so we have thought VERY long and hard about all of this. To us, there are two considerations:

- proximity to family. In our case, that means our kids/grandkids. We have 2 kids in France (one in Paris, the other in the Alps which is 6 hours away) and 2 kids + 2 grandkids in London. We want to be able to travel to them easily, and have them travel to us easily. 

- living in a "travel hub". Our London kids travel to Paris relatively often, either for work, or to get better deals, or just to see us. If we didn't live in a suburb of Paris, we'd probably see much less of them than we do now. 

For both of those reasons, we'll probably stay where we are. Also, we have excellent medical care here (although we pay plenty in taxes for it).

the bold never entered into my consideration.  it probably should, but i have a very small family, and my son can come and see me.  i get how this is a big consideration for most people, however.