Well, I won't have to worry about the robins

[haapai]

getting into the garage and building a nest on top of the garage door opener this year. 

A pregnant cat got in first. 

[thyme4change]

[haapai]

Mama kitty still isn't back yet.  She scrambled out of there in a terrible fright. There are at least two kittens.  One appeared to still have its eyes shut and the other definitely has opened its eyes.  I figure that they are two or three weeks old. 

It's 26 degrees outside.  It's a detached, unheated garage.  I'm a little anxious. 

[Tiny]

Mar 27, 2022 13:20:52 GMT -5 haapai said:

Mama kitty still isn't back yet.  She scrambled out of there in a terrible fright. There are at least two kittens.  One appeared to still have its eyes shut and the other definitely has opened its eyes.  I figure that they are two or three weeks old. 

It's 26 degrees outside.  It's a detached, unheated garage.  I'm a little anxious. 

Can you make them an insulated box?  If you have some big cardboard boxes  (or a plastic tote bin or be creative with the two "boxes") - if you can fit one inside the other with some air space between them (stuff the air space with crumpled up newspaper) for example.  There's lots of lo tech ideas for building something like this out of stuff you have at home.    

Are there more than 2 kittens?   How long do you think they've been there?  Is Momma Cat in the process of moving her family to your garage?   

[haapai]

I think that she's back.  Something has been at the food that I left for her and there appears to be a very small cat curled up in the box.  The only kitten that I can see now is active and vocal.  That's a nice change from the quiet and still kittens that I saw this afternoon.

I'm pretty sure that she gave birth in the garage.  I heard rustling in the garage about three weeks ago which I thought was very cheeky mice.  It was coming from the spot where I found her nest today.

I don't think that she will move the kittens out of the garage, although she may move them within it.  There are lots of clothes and linens in places where she could build a nest.  My extremely messy garage is perfect for her and her unknown number of kittens. 

I also don't mind having an excuse to avoid cleaning up the garage for another five or six weeks. 

It's been a good day. 

[Tiny]

Any chance you can get some support from a local TNR group?

You might end up with a fixed "Garage Cat" once the kittens are weaned and on their way to being housecats. You might not have to do much or spend much to accomplish this.

[haapai]

The guidance that I'm seeing regarding what to do if you find kittens is to leave them and their mama alone until they are eight weeks old.  Shelters are ill-equipped to deal with kittens younger than that, even if they come in with their mama. 

I'm considering putting a poster on my lawn inquiring as to whether anyone is missing a cat and whether they knew that she was pregnant.  I doubt that that would find mama's owner.  I don't think that she has an owner. She's tiny and kinda wild.  On the other hand, it might generate some publicity for her and the kittens that might follow her to the shelter. 

I cannot keep her.  As much as I appreciate her mousing, my parents are Audubon types.  They do not approve of outdoor cats and they would stop speaking to me if they found out that I was keeping one in my garage.  They'd also change their wills and rip up the existing contingent powers of attorney, which would put entirely too much parent-work on my brother and his lovely wife.  I need to woman-up, get the cat and the kits new homes, and do my fair share of elder-care. 

[haapai]

Squeeee!  Three kittens!  One black, one white, one orange.  And even less food in the dish. 

[haapai]

OMG!  Five kittens!  My goodness, they do smush up into small places and stay silent when their mum isn't around.  My fears of them dying of cold have receded quite a bit.  I'm much more concerned about finding homes for them now. 

Ugh, please spay your cats.  The mama cat in this story is pretty much kitten-sized.  Despite giving birth in late winter and being the size of an eight-week kitten herself, she has five presumably healthy and active kittens.  I'm gonna suck it up and do my damnedest to get all of them spayed or neutered before another cycle begins but the math is definitely stacked against me.  It kinda boggles my mind that I have responsibility for spaying and neutering six animals just to keep things from getting completely out of control. 

[mollyanna58]

Mar 27, 2022 18:52:01 GMT -5 haapai said:

OMG!  Five kittens!  My goodness, they do smush up into small places and stay silent when their mum isn't around.  My fears of them dying of cold have receded quite a bit.  I'm much more concerned about finding homes for them now. 

Ugh, please spay your cats.  The mama cat in this story is pretty much kitten-sized.  Despite giving birth in late winter and being the size of an eight-week kitten herself, she has five presumably healthy and active kittens.  I'm gonna suck it up and do my damnedest to get all of them spayed or neutered before another cycle begins but the math is definitely stacked against me.  It kinda boggles my mind that I have responsibility for spaying and neutering six animals just to keep things from getting completely out of control. 

It's good of you to take on the responsibility of getting these cats neutered.  And mama may well be a kitten herself; cats can get pregnant as young as four months.  Does your state or any of the local shelters sponsor low cost neutering?

[haapai]

Mar 27, 2022 18:56:52 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

It's good of you to take on the responsibility of getting these cats neutered.  And mama may well be a kitten herself; cats can get pregnant as young as four months.  Does your state or any of the local shelters sponsor low cost neutering?

Oh yes, they do.  Unfortunately, I haven't been paying too much attention to the details.  They now have my full attention. 

The part that really tugs at my heart is that while I can definitely afford to get all these cats sterilized, I haven't a clue how to find them homes.  Their numbers just exploded.

[Tiny]

Mar 27, 2022 18:52:01 GMT -5 haapai said:

  I'm gonna suck it up and do my damnedest to get all of them spayed or neutered before another cycle begins but the math is definitely stacked against me.  It kinda boggles my mind that I have responsibility for spaying and neutering six animals just to keep things from getting completely out of control.  

it might be worth the internet look around to see if there are any TNR groups near you. They most likely will NOT take Mama and kittens BUT they may have a spay/neuter program you can take advantage of.

8 weeks is kind of late to be socializing kittens... The Kitten Lady talks about it, you may need to search...

www.youtube.com/c/KittenLady/search?query=Feral%20kittens

[Deleted]

Mar 27, 2022 19:13:36 GMT -5 haapai said:

Mar 27, 2022 18:56:52 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

It's good of you to take on the responsibility of getting these cats neutered.  And mama may well be a kitten herself; cats can get pregnant as young as four months.  Does your state or any of the local shelters sponsor low cost neutering?

Oh yes, they do.  Unfortunately, I haven't been paying too much attention to the details.  They now have my full attention. 

The part that really tugs at my heart is that while I can definitely afford to get all these cats sterilized, I haven't a clue how to find them homes.  Their numbers just exploded.

DD tried to rehome pets for a while. Long story.

Anyway, she learned from rescue groups that people who are heavily involved in trying to find homes for pets, feel strongly against offering small animals for free. They feel like asking for at least a minimal amount of money helps weed out people that want the small animals for nefarious purposes.

I don’t mean to complicate things further for you, I just thought of it when I was reading about finding homes for them. I think it’s awesome that you are so concerned about the Mama and her babies. 

[kadee79]

About getting them fixed...if you are close to a University Vet school, they usually do it for nearly free, like $25 per animal.  I paid a lot more than that having 7 of both sexes fixed.  After I paid for all 7, I found out there is a free service about every 3 months in the next town south of us.  Wish I'd known sooner cause I paid $90 ea.!  Since we are rural, we get them dumped out here.  I currently have 3 that I raised, 1 who hangs here but just won't trust me enough to let me touch him & then there are 2 ferals that take off as soon as they see me.  
A hint on providing a warm spot for the little ones...a heating pad wrapped in an old towel.  
What I do is get the cheap plastic totes at Walmart $7 size...with lids.  We cut a hole in one end big enough for an adult cat and then we cover the edges of that with duct tape so no kitty hair gets caught on a rough plastic edge.  I put old bath mats & old towels in there so they can make a nice nest.  I have 3 of these on my deck for my outdoor only kids...and they use them.
If the little ones are starting to move around, now would be a good time to start putting out some kitty litter.  I usually start with something like a little pie tin that is easy for the kids to get into & out of.  Once they figure it out, they will use it.  Momma needs something bigger than that.  The little ones will be easier to place if they are litter trained.

[mollyanna58]

Mar 27, 2022 19:13:36 GMT -5 haapai said:

Mar 27, 2022 18:56:52 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

It's good of you to take on the responsibility of getting these cats neutered.  And mama may well be a kitten herself; cats can get pregnant as young as four months.  Does your state or any of the local shelters sponsor low cost neutering?

Oh yes, they do.  Unfortunately, I haven't been paying too much attention to the details.  They now have my full attention. 

The part that really tugs at my heart is that while I can definitely afford to get all these cats sterilized, I haven't a clue how to find them homes.  Their numbers just exploded.

Try local rescues for advice.  The one I volunteer with will list animals on our website and Petfinder as a "courtesy post"; we don't actually take the animals in, but we help people find homes for them.  They probably have information on low cost neutering. Unfortunately kitten season is starting and there are lots of kittens needing homes.  @pinkcshmere is right about giving away free pets to strangers.  Some people look for free animals for bad reasons. Try Facebook; maybe you can find homes for them among your friends.

[cronewitch]

As soon as you can without scaring the mom away start touching the kittens. Slowly at first just touch the top of the heads, mom's too if you can. Then the next few weeks pick up each kitten daily while mom watches then put it back. When they are 8 to 12 weeks, they will allow you to handle them, making them better pets and less scared at the vets. Try to touch the mom as much as she allows, if she stiffens to run back off, never grab her or lunge at her. Speak to her and give her food and treats while speaking to her.
My girl cat had kittens in a boat at ISO's house so I made him hold them daily. He had already started touching her before she had them. She didn't like them being held but didn't run. As soon as they were homed and she spayed she moved in his house, now she is at my house and demands attention. His cats refuse to go outside, both were strays so understand outside is nature, cold, violent, wet, dirty nature. They bird watch from the window safe, dry, warm and well fed, no need to go outside ever. Outside is where racoons can beat up cats, not a good place for cats. A nice bed with people is better.

[haapai]

I haven't found any more kittens and they all seem to be doing well.  Mama cat is returning to them at regular intervals and she is slightly less skittish when I am around.  This means that she does not bolt out of the box the moment that I enter the garage.  It does not mean that she allows me to approach her nest or handle her kittens when she is around. 

She has not moved the kittens.  She appears to be eating food that I leave for her, but not in the amounts that I suspect that she needs to be eating.  I bought her some canned kitten-formula food that is recommended for lactating cats because of it's higher fat content.

I bought a heating pad and placed it in the box with the kittens while removing several containers of cassette tapes.  Of course she wasn't around while I did this.  The kittens appeared healthy and vocal.  I hope that it does not spur her to abandon or move the kittens. 

I'm not doing so well with regard to what to do with them later.  There is a TNR organization in the area but I can't figure out how to make a paper copy of their request for services, so I haven't been in touch with them yet.  I'm also a bit put off by the emphasis that they put on "return".  I'm totally cool with trapping feral mama, having her sterilized, keeping her safe and warm and dry while she recovers from surgery, and then releasing her back into my garage.  She's probably feral and stands no chance of adoption, and releasing her back out into the neighborhood, sterilized, is something that I can live with. 

I'm not so cool about doing the same for the kittens.  I think that they can be socialized and have a shot at being re-homed but the local TNR organization does not seem to be holding this out as a possibility.  I definitely do not want to release five sterilized adolescent cats into my garage.  I kinda like birds and chipmunks and rabbits living around my in-town property and I refuse to feed them or become known as the crazy cat lady.

Am I missing something?

[kadee79]

Many feral cats can be socialized...but it takes a lot of patience & time & treats for them.  I've done it with several over the years...but it's not an easy job.
The one I have that hangs out here that hasn't let me touch him yet....tonight we made an in road.  He came to eat the canned food with the other 3 with me still out on the deck.  That was a first, but he watched me like a hawk to make sure I didn't get too close.  So if this continues, I'll start moving closer..but only a tiny bit at a time.  Maybe I'll even try a pet when his head is down eating...just so he knows I'm not going to hurt him.  Someone must have really beat on him to make him as shy as he has been.

[Tiny]

Mar 28, 2022 20:13:58 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

Many feral cats can be socialized...but it takes a lot of patience & time & treats for them.  I've done it with several over the years...but it's not an easy job.
The one I have that hangs out here that hasn't let me touch him yet....tonight we made an in road.  He came to eat the canned food with the other 3 with me still out on the deck.  That was a first, but he watched me like a hawk to make sure I didn't get too close.  So if this continues, I'll start moving closer..but only a tiny bit at a time.  Maybe I'll even try a pet when his head is down eating...just so he knows I'm not going to hurt him.  Someone must have really beat on him to make him as shy as he has been.

I don't think it's abuse -  it's having missed that window as kitten for the cat to learn that humans aren't bad (and most can become their personal servant ).   

I have a cat from my local shelter that I call my "Feral" housecat - she is a very well behaved housecat and has no desire to go near a door that leads to the outside of the house.  I also can't get near her.  She follows me from room to room - but she always stays out of arms reach.  If she's lying in a cat bed or a nice cat sleeping spot  and I approach she runs.    When I first got her I tried for 6 months to get her use to being petted - she'd get food and some pets - we were at the point where she'd dodge in for some food, get a head rub and mouthful of food and  dodge away.  After so many months I figured it was just stressing us both out.    She didn't start meowing at me for attention (like if the food bowl was empty or the litter box needed attention) until the 3rd year I had her.  It was like she figured out "wow! I MEOW at the Human and I can "control" the Human!!!  woo hoo!  She lets me know when she needs something now."  That was life changing for both of us that bit of communication.   Up til then I use to joke that I didn't think English was her first language - she seemed to have no clue the sounds I was making had any meaning (she can hear just fine). She had no clue she could effect my behavior.      

I'm don't think she was abused - I think she must have been a kitten that got "tamed" a bit later than was optimal.  I think she was about a year old when I got her.   I'm glad I got her.  I think she would have been a nightmare cat for a newbie cat owner or a family - who wants a cat you can't pet and who won't really play with cat toys and who runs and hides if you attempt to pick them up or catch them?   I don't think she fears me specifically - just that some actions/situations cause her "feral cat fight/flight response" and that she can't do anything about it.   

[Tiny]

Mar 28, 2022 19:28:30 GMT -5 haapai said:

 

I'm not doing so well with regard to what to do with them later.  There is a TNR organization in the area but I can't figure out how to make a paper copy of their request for services, so I haven't been in touch with them yet.  I'm also a bit put off by the emphasis that they put on "return".  I'm totally cool with trapping feral mama, having her sterilized, keeping her safe and warm and dry while she recovers from surgery, and then releasing her back into my garage.  She's probably feral and stands no chance of adoption, and releasing her back out into the neighborhood, sterilized, is something that I can live with. 

I'm not so cool about doing the same for the kittens.  I think that they can be socialized and have a shot at being re-homed but the local TNR organization does not seem to be holding this out as a possibility.  I definitely do not want to release five sterilized adolescent cats into my garage.  I kinda like birds and chipmunks and rabbits living around my in-town property and I refuse to feed them or become known as the crazy cat lady.

Am I missing something?

What MIGHT happen is that the TNR group will ask you (maybe show you want to do) to get the kittens socialized to humans before the "window" is past.   If Mama Cat is feral - they will trap and get her fixed and return her to your property (most likely) after the kittens are weaned.  If the kittens are socialized - and WEANED the TNR group may find them a Foster situation (the kittens will get their shots and whatever else they need) - which will further socialize the kittens to living with humans - and when they are 2 pounds or so - the kittens will get fixed and offered up for adoption.    

In my densely populated Urban area - there are a bunch of TNR groups  and shelters.   I think we "import" cats and kittens from other places to "fill in" when supply is running low.   The challenge here is to get adult cats a home.     

So, I think if you can work with one of your local TNR groups or shelter - they will be part of a bigger network of rescuers and while you might end up with a fixed  Garage Cat - there's a good chance the kittens will eventually find homes (possibly NOT in your area - if they transferred to somewhere were there are fewer kittens.           

That's if any of the  a rescues or TNR groups or animal shelters has access to a bigger network of rescues/TNR groups/Shelters/people willing to foster  or transport cats/kittens  that network is the real power for local groups.  And what will be most helpful  to help your Mama Cat and kittens. 


I'm gonna go out on a limb - if you find a group that will help you and will make sure the kittens get socialized/fixed/adopted - post (or PM me) the name of the group/organization.   I'd make a donation.   

[stillmovingforward]

Count me in for the donation too. I love cats but don't have any right now.

[haapai]

Nuts!  She moved the kittens.  I can't find them in the garage but that does not mean that they are not in there somewhere.  My garage is comically messy. 

I'll continue leaving food out for her in the garage.  She'll probably come and eat it no matter where the kittens are.  I'll also be visiting the garage frequently and listening for meows or "cheeky mice". 

[cronewitch]

Did you find them again?